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Windows 7: RT Se7en Lite

15 Jul 2011   #11
cluberti

Windows 10 Pro x64
 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by DeaconFrost View Post
The disc isn't what determines legality...it's the license key. If you are using your own license key, you are legit.
Copyright covers the code in the product, so in fact, you are incorrect. According to US (and most EU countries') law, the act of sharing a disc (physically *or* virtually) is in fact a violation of copyright. The key provides the ability to activate the product (aka, proof of ownership) - the media, however, is also part of the product. Sharing that with someone else does indeed violate copyright.


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15 Jul 2011   #12
Bill2

Windows 7 x64 pro/ Windows 7 x86 Pro/ XP SP3 x86
 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by cluberti View Post
Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by DeaconFrost View Post
The disc isn't what determines legality...it's the license key. If you are using your own license key, you are legit.
Copyright covers the code in the product, so in fact, you are incorrect. According to US (and most EU countries') law, the act of sharing a disc (physically *or* virtually) is in fact a violation of copyright. The key provides the ability to activate the product (aka, proof of ownership) - the media, however, is also part of the product. Sharing that with someone else does indeed violate copyright.
Obviously MS and OEMs dont believe in copyright. If they did they would be obliged to provide real, install disks with all OEM computers, and MS in particular would need to dispatch SP1 integrated copies (free of cost) to all those who purchased pre-SP1 disks.
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15 Jul 2011   #13
DeaconFrost

Windows 7 Ultimate x64 SP1
 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by cluberti View Post
Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by DeaconFrost View Post
The disc isn't what determines legality...it's the license key. If you are using your own license key, you are legit.
Copyright covers the code in the product, so in fact, you are incorrect. According to US (and most EU countries') law, the act of sharing a disc (physically *or* virtually) is in fact a violation of copyright. The key provides the ability to activate the product (aka, proof of ownership) - the media, however, is also part of the product. Sharing that with someone else does indeed violate copyright.
While you may be correct for most media or IP, Microsoft themselves have often suggested borrowing discs for such things. It's been a very long standing tactic, going back over a decade to XP's release that Microsoft doesn't really care about the media you use to install...but that license key. That was one of the primary reasons MS switched from a basic key to an activation service. Swapping and sharing media is of little to no concern to them, because it is useless in the long run without a valid key that is activated.

You can't always thow a blanket generalization over everything in the tech world. You have to go situation by situation.
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15 Jul 2011   #14
cluberti

Windows 10 Pro x64
 
 

I'd love to see it in Writing, because it's not legal (at least in the US, Canada, and most EU countries). Copyright is a law, not a situation - I'm not saying you're forbidden from doing so in your own life, just be aware that it is indeed technically not legal to do so. Microsoft cares, but seemingly only on a larger scale (see: China). I can't speak to other companies or countries, of course.
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15 Jul 2011   #15
gregrocker

 

Carl, it would be interesting to find out why MS is not enforcing manufacturers providing a clean-copy installation DVD with new computer purchase. They did so when they had some leverage in the Vista>Win7 upgrade kit, but users are otherwise saddled with the factory preinstalled bloatware which hinders Win7 performance and therefore affects MS image.

We help thousands of users here clean reinstall bloated factory OEM to get the native feather-light, instantaneous Win7 performance which makes MS shine. But users need to find a clean-copy of the Installation DVD to do so since the manufacturers enforce sponsors' bloatware now to the extent they won't support clean reinstalls.
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15 Jul 2011   #16
DeaconFrost

Windows 7 Ultimate x64 SP1
 
 

It is what it is, and has been for over a decade. Copyright laws always enter a gray area within the computer world. You are trying to make it a black and white issue....and it is far from it.

So again, I'll just reiterate what MS's stance has been since they switched to an activation method. The license is what makes you legit...not the media.
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15 Jul 2011   #17
cluberti

Windows 10 Pro x64
 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by gregrocker View Post
Carl, it would be interesting to find out why MS is not enforcing manufacturers providing a clean-copy installation DVD with new computer purchase. They did so when they had some leverage in the Vista>Win7 upgrade kit, but users are otherwise saddled with the factory preinstalled bloatware which hinders Win7 performance and therefore affects MS image.
The OEM agreements include either a DVD or a recovery partition as a requirement, and it depends on the OEM as to which they choose (some do both, but a recovery partition is a cost savings if you think about the cost in shipping media with each machine). The OEM has the choice, ultimately, and both meet the requirements set to the OEMs.

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by gregrocker View Post
We help thousands of users here clean reinstall bloated factory OEM to get the native feather-light, instantaneous Win7 performance which makes MS shine. But users need to find a clean-copy of the Installation DVD to do so since the manufacturers enforce sponsors' bloatware now to the extent they won't support clean reinstalls.
I understand that, but those are the "rules", so to speak. If you purchase from an OEM vendor that doesn't provide clean media (Dell is really good about this, and has been for years, but a lot of other OEMs are not), then you either have to find a way to get the WIM from the recovery partition if possible, or you build from the recovery, clean it, and sysprep/reimage it. Again, I'm not saying it's ideal for folks who do home repair work, but you are most certainly not in the minds of the folks writing the rules (and really have never been). If you want that to change, you're gonna have to be more vocal and visible to Microsoft.

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by DeaconFrost View Post
It is what it is, and has been for over a decade. Copyright laws always enter a gray area within the computer world. You are trying to make it a black and white issue....and it is far from it.

So again, I'll just reiterate what MS's stance has been since they switched to an activation method. The license is what makes you legit...not the media.
Again, I'd like to see some sort of proof of this. Because there's always the EULA for Windows 7 which specifically states "You may not rent, lease or lend the software", which is very specific in what you can and can't do with the software. Again, remember you purchase the license to use it (and you agree to it in the EULA), you don't actually own any of it. I understand folks have always used sneakernet to move, share, and install licensed/copyrighted software, but it's *always* been illegal (regardless of whether it also has key activation technology or not). Just because some may see it as a gray area, doesn't mean it is. The law is pretty clear on this - again, I'm not saying don't do it (I'm not the software police, and never want to be), but simply stating it's legal doesn't make it so, ever. Well, unless you make the laws, of course .
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15 Jul 2011   #18
DeaconFrost

Windows 7 Ultimate x64 SP1
 
 

There is no specific written proof either way. The EULA isn't the law, either. It is the license you agree to when you "rent" the software. You aren't paying for the software...you are paying for the right to use it. That license is determined by the key, hence the name.

It isn't that "some" see it as a gray area. It's the fact that legal experts have been debating it for years, and that the EULA is not the same thing as a copyright law. Music and movie DVDs expressly forbid copying, yet it has been determined you are legally able to make one archival copy for yourself. All of this is a gray area, whether you feel so or not, with very little factual aspects that are indisputable. If I give a copy of a W7 disc to a friend, who uses it with his own license to reformat his Dell laptop, I'm hardly breaking an court-approved legal rules. Microsoft has actually supported this in many of their own blogs and support cases. If I take a copy of my software, attach a TechNet license key to it, and sell it on eBay, I'm clearing breaking legal rules.

My secondary point is...why the debate? As I said before, it is what it is, and has been for over a decade. I'm not quite understanding the combatitiveness you are showing towards myself and others who are just saying how it is. None of us care about written proof because we've been in the industry long enough to know how it is. I just past my 15th year in the IT industry, so that's my proof...living and breathing it every day. In my example of giving a friend the media only, his install will be 100% legit, and if he called Microsoft to activate, he'd have no issues. MS themselves doesn't get into the media or how the product was installed...they only care about that key and that the license isn't in use already. If you are in a need for proof, why not get it from the source? If Microsoft doesn't care, why should anyone else? The day Microsoft starts selling discs of their OSes on their website (media only) for all people to easily purchase, and offers updated media to those with valid licenses, I may change my stance.
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15 Jul 2011   #19
Bill2

Windows 7 x64 pro/ Windows 7 x86 Pro/ XP SP3 x86
 
 

Maybe MS can start reading their own EULAs. I've quoted this before but here it is.

Is it OK to use OEM Windows on your own PC? Don't ask Microsoft | ZDNet
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15 Jul 2011   #20
DeaconFrost

Windows 7 Ultimate x64 SP1
 
 

I should clarify a bit, that I'm not trying to sound like I'm directing anything negative towards you, cluberti. It's been a frustration for a long time that there isn't a clear black and white set of rules and facts for us in the computer industry. I can only live by the rules that the industry seems to make for itself. In this case, if I borrowed a DVD from a friend, or copied the software DVD, and used my own, legit license key to install, I'd be quite comfortable telling Microsoft what I did. I have a TechNet subscription, and I'll be honest, I've given away .iso files and burned discs. I will NOT give out any of my keys to anyone outside of my house. My wife is in IT, and she uses one W7 key on her laptop from my TechNet account. But she is part of our side business of support that the TechNet account is registered under.
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