Windows 7 Forums
Welcome to Windows 7 Forums. Our forum is dedicated to helping you find support and solutions for any problems regarding your Windows 7 PC be it Dell, HP, Acer, Asus or a custom build. We also provide an extensive Windows 7 tutorial section that covers a wide range of tips and tricks.


Windows 7: STILL confused about "Upgrade" installation process.

13 Sep 2009   #41
Nosmo

Win 7 32 bit , Win xp Sp3
 
 

timsart,
Great post. The MS sites you have links to have been up for quite a while and I believe that the left hand of MS does not know what the right hand is doing.

This quote from the MS store is interesting.

" You qualify for Windows 7 upgrade versions if you are running genuine Windows Vista, Windows XP, or Windows 2000 on your PC."

Now we know that Activation is one method they might use to Validate a users legal position in regard to their licence. But if memory serves, Win 2000 was pre activation and how can MS validate an upgrade install from this OS.


I also am amazed that this was not all cleared up way back before pre ordering specials were anounced.


My System SpecsSystem Spec
.
13 Sep 2009   #42
Nosmo

Win 7 32 bit , Win xp Sp3
 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by halp View Post
Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by Nosmo View Post
This was a recent communication from an MS employee


Hello Nosmo

To use an Upgrade, it is required that you have a Qualified copy of Windows to Upgrade from. A "Qualified" copy of Windows (almost by Definition) would also have to be a Genuine copy of Windows. That was the requirerment for Upgrading to XP, That was the requirerment for Upgrading to Vista and it's the requirment for upgradeing to Windows 7. The only difference is that Win7 enforces this by requiring, that the Windows being Upgraded, also be Activated. The total time added to the whole reinstall process would be (best case) less then a second, by Activating over the internet, and (worst case) around 5 mins, by Activating by Phone.


You ask " How do you activate XP the second time around when needing to re install."

You activate XP by the same way you did the first time around. You install XP using the XP Product Key then follow the 'Activate over the Internet' or 'Activate by Phone' wizard.

Hope that help clarify the process,
Darin mS

* Marked As Answer byDarin Smith MSMSFT, ModeratorWednesday, August 12, 2009 6:58 PM
Not looking good. Who is Darin? A moderator on a Microsoft forum? Just trying to gauge credibility.
Darin Smith works for MS in the Activation/Validation dept and also moderates on one of MS's forums titled " Genuine Advantage Validation Issues ". Part of TechNet I believe.
I have no doubt of his authenticity.

His quote, in bold type above, seems to me to be quite emphatic.
My System SpecsSystem Spec
13 Sep 2009   #43
timsart

Windows 98SE, Windows XP Home & Pro; OpenSuse 10.3/11, Windows 7 RC and verious linuxes in VBox
 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by Nosmo View Post
timsart,
Great post. The MS sites you have links to have been up for quite a while and I believe that the left hand of MS does not know what the right hand is doing.

This quote from the MS store is interesting.

" You qualify for Windows 7 upgrade versions if you are running genuine Windows Vista, Windows XP, or Windows 2000 on your PC."

Now we know that Activation is one method they might use to Validate a users legal position in regard to their licence. But if memory serves, Win 2000 was pre activation and how can MS validate an upgrade install from this OS.


I also am amazed that this was not all cleared up way back before pre ordering specials were anounced.
I agree. The Windows 2000 "activation" issue is one that has me collecting this information. That and the contradictory answers I've received from various Microsoft employees via chat, email and phone since the time that the pre-release specials were announced. (As well as contradictory statements from MVP's in the forums.)

As I stated, I plan to make some noise if the upgrade versions cannot be used as outlined on the links I provided in my last post.

I myself plan to attempt to "upgrade" to a clean hard drive partition using Windows 2000 as my legal "qualifying" product. Guess we will see what happens.

Microsoft appears to have the usage of the term "upgrade" somewhat confused at this point.

There is the license issue of qualifying for upgrading from prior versions.

Then there is an "in-place" upgrade or "clean install" upgrade and reinstalling as "clean install" using your upgrade media that you have proper rights to at a later date. (hard drive fails, etc.)

Plus, the "free" upgrade from Vista offer for new purchases of Vista from June 26 to Jan. 31, 2010. (A sales/marketing use of the term.)

The fact that they appear not to be careful to always modify "upgrade" to indicate whether they are talking about licensing or a software technical procedure or "sales" causes a lot of the present confusion.

Their published upgrade procedure page does seem to be the official answer to that confusion.

Installing and reinstalling Windows

Guess we'll see sometime after October 22nd.
My System SpecsSystem Spec
.

13 Sep 2009   #44
iseeuu

 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by halp View Post
Thanks for the lengthy post iseeuu, but these are things I already know. I'm not worried about upgrading from RC, nor is "saving" XP/Vista of any consequence to me.

My situation is such that I'm often changing hard drives, and running DBAN to rid sensitive data. I would simply like to be able to install my "Upgrade" DVD onto a system with a blank hard drive present. I don't feel as though I should be required to go back and install XP/Vista, or a 7100 disk image, simply to install Windows 7 immediately afterward. This mandatory redundancy was not present in previous versions, and hopefully it hasn't manifested itself in 7.
That clears things up for me.

There is this old saying: "The man who stops to kick at every barking dog will never reach his destination."

It appears to me (and of course I could be wrong) that the only motivation for your thread is to gripe to us about a change Microsoft might have made ... even though a totally suitable alternative has been supplied by Microsoft.

OK so in the past we booted to our MS CD and started the install, swapped CDs for an older Windows OS, and continued the installation.

How is that less effort than using the Windows 7 "image backup" utility to save an image of the current OS, boot to the 7 DVD, and restore the image to a blank hard drive. You say you often change hard drives. What could be easier and less time consuming than this? You have a current, up-to-date OS on a blank hard drive. You don't have to install any programs, move any settings, apply any back-ups, or install any Windows Updates. And you should be making regular back-ups anyway.

If you don''t like the Windows utility, there are open-source and paid programs to do the same thing.

I certainly do not wish to appear to be unkind, it just causes me to wonder. When my children were little they let me know when they did not get their way. Now that they are adults, when they do not get their way, they find another way to reach their goals, and are quite good at it. They don't waste time kicking at every barking dog.
My System SpecsSystem Spec
13 Sep 2009   #45
ddeen

Windows 7 RC 7100
 
 

I really like the Windows 7 RC that I am currently running, but this “Upgrade” path is ridiculous, in fact if I had known that Windows 7 was going to require that you have an activated XP/Vista install on the drive before you upgraded I would not have pre-ordered the upgrade, I would have gotten an OEM edition instead, but of course Microsoft didn’t tell us until AFTER the pre-order that we would be put through much misery installing what they are calling an “Upgrade”

Here is why this Windows 7 “Upgrade” will not be a trivial process, and in fact I would say Microsoft was purposely being vague, and withheld pertinent information about what work will be involved with the “Upgrade” until now. Here is what some of us will have to do every time we re-install.

  • Retrieve your Win98, 2000, XP upgrade disk so you can install your XP/Vista upgrade.
  • Retrieve your XP or Vista upgrade disk, key code, install and activate (probably requiring a phone call, with much pleading and begging for an activation code that you have to enter manually)
  • Then you can finally install your Windows 7 “Upgrade”, where you again enter your key code and activate (hopefully without having to call and beg for activation, at the 1st few re-installs anyway, after that its back to begging and pleading on the phone)

This adds at least another hour to the process for someone that has to re-install their system, which needs to happen somewhat regularly with Windows if you want to keep the performance up. While this hour is somewhat trivial for someone doing it themselves if they have kept up with all their disks and key codes, others will end up not having all the required disks and key codes so they will be stuck buying a full version of windows after they have purchased the upgrade. And even if they have all their disks and key codes they may not be able to convince Microsoft to activate their older OS's.


The upgrade process was perfectly reasonable in XP where it just asked for the original disk, this, however is completely insane. So yes, a saved image will now be another required step for running Windows.
My System SpecsSystem Spec
24 Sep 2009   #46
timsart

Windows 98SE, Windows XP Home & Pro; OpenSuse 10.3/11, Windows 7 RC and verious linuxes in VBox
 
 
Bad news regarding Windows 2000

As of today, the Microsoft store order page no longer states that Windows 2000 qualifies for upgrade version of Windows 7.

It now states:

"You qualify for Windows 7 upgrade versions if you're running genuine Windows Vista or Windows XP on your PC. If you’re running Windows 2000, you’ll need to purchase the full product and do a clean install."

Windows 7 - Buy and download from Microsoft Store

Glad I saved the old versions of this page.

Guess I'll be calling MS sales in the morning to "clarify" this change for myself.

Will post again once I have anything new on this issue.
My System SpecsSystem Spec
24 Sep 2009   #47
SIW2

Microsoft Community Contributor Award Recipient

Vista x64 / 7 X64
 
 

Hi,

Yes it is odd.

Could you post up a copy of the old page?

Thanks.
My System SpecsSystem Spec
24 Sep 2009   #48
Dave76

Microsoft Community Contributor Award Recipient

Windows 7 Ult x64 - SP1/ Windows 8 Pro x64
 
 

Looks like MS doesn't know what their going to do, or just not saying.

Have seen several conflicting explanations from MS on this issue. Seems to be changing frequently.

Good info and links timsart
My System SpecsSystem Spec
24 Sep 2009   #49
DeaconFrost

Windows 7 Ultimate x64 SP1
 
 

As of now, nothing has been made official in terms of how the upgrade path will go, if it can be used to do a clean install, etc. The problem is, too many people jumped on the upgrades early, without bothering to do their research to see that nothing was made official.

Halp, I understand this is a confusing issue with no concrete answers, but getting snippy with people who are responding to your thread certainly isn't going to help. If you are changing hard drives often, then you can simply clone your install to a new hard drive. That's always been possible, and certainly won't require a reinstall.

Honestly, if it is that much of a problem, you can always cancel your order and purchase a retail license. If you need several licenses, fit the requirements, and keep the rules, you can get yourself a TechNet subscription, which easily pays for itself.
My System SpecsSystem Spec
24 Sep 2009   #50
timsart

Windows 98SE, Windows XP Home & Pro; OpenSuse 10.3/11, Windows 7 RC and verious linuxes in VBox
 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by SIW2 View Post
Hi,

Yes it is odd.

Could you post up a copy of the old page?

Thanks.

Sure can.

Rather than trying screen shots, I'm attaching a zip file with the upgrade pages from 7-7-09, 7-12-09 and 9-24-09. (saved complete html pages)

Unzip using folders option so that the sub folders for the pages unzip correctly.

Hope this works.


Attached Files
File Type: zip win 7 upgrades store pages 7-7-09 to 9-24-09.zip (1.59 MB, 26 views)
My System SpecsSystem Spec
Reply

 STILL confused about "Upgrade" installation process.




Thread Tools




Similar help and support threads
Thread Forum
Confused Between The Difference - "My Documents" & "Documents"-Win7?
Hello. I have been very curious for a while now and somewhat confused. This is regarding Windows 7, so if you are not using Windows 7 you may not know what I am talking about. Okay, I see in Windows 7 you have a folder called "Documents" in your start menu and when you open it, you have the...
General Discussion
"Error opening process" message in Process Explorer
Hi Everyone I recently did a System Restore on a Windows 7 Pro 64 bit system to correct a strange problem I was having with IE. It seems to have solved the problem, but now Process Explorer is displaying the messages in the screen shot below, and I'm not sure why. The computer is functioning...
Software
"Send To" much faster @ file transfer than any other Windows Process?
Hello, On my se7en x64 Ent. systems as long as I have a destination in the "Send To" menu, no matter if it's on another partition, drive or the size of the transfer it is much faster than Explorer's cut or copy and seems to be as fast as "Fast Copy" is plus, unlike the regular file transfer...
General Discussion
Installation Process Frozen At "Installing Update"
I've recently had ubuntu 10.04 installed on my laptop and I wanted to switch back to Windows 7. I have a copy of my windows 7 on my hard drive which I've used to reinstall windows 7 multiple times. For some odd reason when I try now every time I go through the process it freezes at "Installing...
Installation & Setup
Problem launching game - "Unable to terminate process" may be related
Hey guys, I'm hoping you can help me find a solution to this problem that doesn't involve doing another clean install of Windows 7, so here we go. I've been playing a game called Silk Road Online on and off on my laptop, and suddenly one day (maybe after windows updates, I'm not sure) when I...
Gaming
Install time difference between "Upgrade" and "Custom"
Is the time to "Upgrade from vista to 7 supposed to be wayyy longer then it would to do jsut a clean install? (For example, hanging at 18% for a while while installing during upgrade) (posting this since i cant get any replies to a previous topic)
Installation & Setup


Our Sites

Site Links

About Us

Find Us

Windows 7 Forums is an independent web site and has not been authorized, sponsored, or otherwise approved by Microsoft Corporation. "Windows 7" and related materials are trademarks of Microsoft Corp.

© Designer Media Ltd

All times are GMT -5. The time now is 00:15.
Twitter Facebook Google+ Seven Forums iOS App Seven Forums Android App