Installation and Wiping the Hard Drive

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  1. zrtom
    Posts : 415
    W8 Pro, W7 Ultimate, XP Pro x64, Vista x64, Ubuntu
       New #11

    gregrocker said:
    Dickstar said:
    So this means you can't format the drive the previous install was on before installing 7?
    No you have to start an UPgrade from the qualifying activated OS. Then you can UPgrade (resinstall programs, files, settings) Vista, or Custom clean install Vista/XP/RC over itself, to another partition, or HDD.
    Are you saying an Upgrade version can't be installed clean from boot (and then activated, which is really the issue here)? If so, I think that goes against what MS told me in writing (and posted here: STILL confused about "Upgrade" installation process.)

    I think this will be sorted out real soon after today's launch.
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  3. gregrocker
    Posts : 50,642
       New #12

    The ability to clean install from boot using Upgrade was foreclosed when MS announced the Vista "upgrade over upgrade" trick would not be allowed on Win7. It had, after all, made Upgrades effectively the same as full retail disks for those willing to install twice (at half the price, always nice).

    Instead the focus by us clean install freaks has been on either installing to a second formatted HDD, or another partition. Both of these have NOT been foreclosed by MS, were allowed in the past and meet the EULA as long as the install is started from the qualifying OS, and the old OS is not used except for reinstall .
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  4. dnelms
    Posts : 22
    Windows Vista
       New #13

    gregrocker said:
    The ability to clean install from boot using Upgrade was foreclosed when MS announced the Vista "upgrade over upgrade" trick would not be allowed on Win7. It had, after all, made Upgrades effectively the same as full retail disks for those willing to install twice (at half the price, always nice).

    Instead the focus by us clean install freaks has been on either installing to a second formatted HDD, or another partition. Both of these have NOT been foreclosed by MS, were allowed in the past and meet the EULA as long as the install is started from the qualifying OS, and the old OS is not used except for reinstall .
    OK, quick question based on this. If I install a clean formatted new HDD in the computer. Computer running Vista selects G as the next drive letter for it. I then install Win 7 upgrade to that disk G. Once installed and activated, I shut down and remove my original C drive with Vista on it and reboot. Will the registry and everything still reference my install to the G drive or will it pick up that I no longer have a C drive and I can change the letter designation of the new HDD as C? (or will Win7 pickup the fact there is no physicall HDD for C and use the last letter drive G and change it). Just curious as I'm just being wierd and would like the OS to be on the C drive.
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  6. gregrocker
    Posts : 50,642
       New #14

    Unplug all other HDD's besides Vista and formatted Primary target drive. Install Win7 to target drive. At this point you have dual boot. You might want to copy your files over from Vista.

    Unplug Vista drive, plug cable into Win7 drive (or change boot order in BIOS), mark active, run Startup Repair.

    Here is the forum where this was thrashed out at MS Technet:

    XP upgrade to win7 using a new hard drive
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  7. gregrocker
    Posts : 50,642
       New #15

    Dickstar said:
    So this means you can't format the drive the previous install was on before installing 7?
    From all that I have read it must be run from that drive.

    That said, a guy is posting on Neowin right now that he booted from Upgrade disk and installed/activated, something MS said could not be done.
    Last edited by gregrocker; 22 Oct 2009 at 07:39.
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  8. zrtom
    Posts : 415
    W8 Pro, W7 Ultimate, XP Pro x64, Vista x64, Ubuntu
       New #16

    gregrocker,
    I think you are giving bad advice on the upgrade install process. Your advice goes directly against what I have in writing from Microsoft. Heresay, TechNet blogs, MSDN blogs and what happened or didn't happen with Vista is not pertinent. What is pertinent is what can physically and legally be done. The Neowin guy is validating what MS told me. The clean-install-boot-from-DVD searches for an activated qualifying MS version and sets up a flag for activating the clean upgrade install on a completely formatted hard disk.
    Tom
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  10. gregrocker
    Posts : 50,642
       New #17

    zrtom said:
    gregrocker,
    I think you are giving bad advice on the upgrade install process. Your advice goes directly against what I have in writing from Microsoft. Heresay, TechNet blogs, MSDN blogs and what happened or didn't happen with Vista is not pertinent. What is pertinent is what can physically and legally be done. The Neowin guy is validating what MS told me. The clean-install-boot-from-DVD searches for an activated qualifying MS version and sets up a flag for activating the clean upgrade install on a completely formatted hard disk.
    Tom
    ZRTom, since you claim I am giving out misinformation about the Upgrade needing to be started from the qualifying OS, and not boot, I re-read the message to you from MS which you say proves this.
    zrtom said:
    Although not an issue for me directly as a TechNet subscriber, the "Upgrade" install process was still bugging the hell out of me and some of my House Party guests are beginning to inquire about the exact upgrade details. So I wrote to Microsoft. I've attached the reply I received yesterday.

    Most of the folks I will be doing upgrades for are Dell users so I phrased my questions in that context to alleviate their particular fears.... not that it should matter for others. Dells are a bit unique in that they ship a pre-activated full OS disk and not a "System Restore" disk.

    The rumors of clean installs with an upgrade disk apprear to be true.
    But, it also appears that one doesn't just slip in the Vista disk when prompted. The upgrade process must see a fully installed and activated qualifying version before it will allow a complete disk format to pass a flag that allows the upgrade key to activate Windows 7. I guess the "flag" would be held in the RAMdrive during installation or placed in the System Reserved partition.

    I think this is the pertinent part:
    " If you choose to use the upgrade version of Windows 7, if you ever had to format your computers you would have to install your original copy of Windows Vista and then install the upgrade to Windows 7. This must be done using either method of installation with the upgrade version.
    If you wish to bypass the requirement of installing your Vista during every computer reformat then I suggest you purchase the full version and perform a clean installation. This would enable to re-install your operating system and get your computer up and running much quicker."

    So, the clean install process is clearly more complicated but doable. And in the case of Dell users, the process will be a little quicker for future reinstallations because we can get Vista installed and activated from a USB key in about 10 minutes. Won't have to sit through all of the driver and crapware installations of some "System Restore" processes. It shouldn't matter that many of the drivers aren't present, just that Vista is installed and activated.

    Attachment 31321


    Tom

    Can you show me where in this MS message it says or even implies
    that one can boot from the Upgrade disk to perform their clean install?

    The only previous method for clean installing from boot using a Upgrade disk was the Vista "upgrade over upgrade" trick, which MS specifically foreclosed months ago.

    So what again is the misinformation I am giving?
    Last edited by gregrocker; 22 Oct 2009 at 08:16. Reason: to provide background quotes
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  11. gregrocker
    Posts : 50,642
       New #18

    dup
    Last edited by gregrocker; 22 Oct 2009 at 08:37.
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  12. zrtom
    Posts : 415
    W8 Pro, W7 Ultimate, XP Pro x64, Vista x64, Ubuntu
       New #19

    gregrocker said:
    zrtom said:
    gregrocker,
    I think you are giving bad advice on the upgrade install process. Your advice goes directly against what I have in writing from Microsoft. Heresay, TechNet blogs, MSDN blogs and what happened or didn't happen with Vista is not pertinent. What is pertinent is what can physically and legally be done. The Neowin guy is validating what MS told me. The clean-install-boot-from-DVD searches for an activated qualifying MS version and sets up a flag for activating the clean upgrade install on a completely formatted hard disk.
    Tom
    Well all I can say is you are the first guy who has said this, but I really hope you are right because that means we can format the install.
    I posted the contents of my letter from Microsoft a week ago here:
    STILL confused about "Upgrade" installation process.
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  13. gregrocker
    Posts : 50,642
       New #20

    zrtom said:
    gregrocker said:
    zrtom said:
    gregrocker,
    I think you are giving bad advice on the upgrade install process. Your advice goes directly against what I have in writing from Microsoft. Heresay, TechNet blogs, MSDN blogs and what happened or didn't happen with Vista is not pertinent. What is pertinent is what can physically and legally be done. The Neowin guy is validating what MS told me. The clean-install-boot-from-DVD searches for an activated qualifying MS version and sets up a flag for activating the clean upgrade install on a completely formatted hard disk.
    Tom
    Well all I can say is you are the first guy who has said this, but I really hope you are right because that means we can format the install.
    I posted the contents of my letter from Microsoft a week ago here:
    STILL confused about "Upgrade" installation process.
    Yes, I read it then and just re-read it again.

    Where in the message to you from MS does it say or even imply that you can boot from the Upgrade DVD to clean install?
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