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Windows 7: Strange

24 May 2010   #11
metalmania31

Windows 7 Pro 64bit build 7601 SP1
 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by gregrocker View Post
Run the maker's HD diagnostics full CD scan which can salvage a failing HD sometimes: Hard Drive Diagnostics Tools and Utilities (Storage) - TACKtech Corp.

Likewise test the memory with memtest86 CD for 5-6 passes to check that out.
Yeah, I gave up on this machine. It won't even fire up. The fans don't even twitch when pressing the power button. It's not really anything I wanna fuss over that much since it's just a junk machine.


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24 May 2010   #12
HMonk

Dual boot XP Pro SP3x86 and Win7 Pro x64
 
 

Bobkn is right: if it is an OEM version, you would have to mod the HP BIOS. If it is a retail version, it should install on any machine - unless the HP BIOS is set up for specific OS input.

If interested in BIOS modding, I would suggest MyDigitalLife Forums; they have a BIOS modding group and extensive tutorials.

Monk
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24 May 2010   #13
gregrocker

 

The OEM and retail Win7 installer are the same, as with Vista.

I reinstall HP factory OEM using the Win7 and Vista installer all the time and have never had to modify the BIOS.

Have heard that such a BIOS lock exists but never come across it yet. What are the related settings?
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25 May 2010   #14
Bill2

Windows 7 x64 pro/ Windows 7 x86 Pro/ XP SP3 x86
 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by HMonk View Post
Bobkn is right: if it is an OEM version, you would have to mod the HP BIOS. If it is a retail version, it should install on any machine - unless the HP BIOS is set up for specific OS input.
Monk
The non-genuine message has do with validation, not activation. Irrespective of whether the OP used an OEM disk or a Retail disk, win7 will install in trial mode (using the OEM SLP/non-SLP key for OEM disk install and the default embedded key for retail install). The system properties window will show not activated but theres absolutely no reason why that non-genuine message should show up since the OP has not tried to validate. Maybe the OP upgraded and theres some leftover.

About OEM activation, preactivated computers with win7 have an OEM flag in the bios. More specifically, the bios incorporates a table called SLIC 2.1. When paired with the right key and right certificate, activation takes place offline and automatically. OEM SLP keys are edition specific, NOT brand specific. OEM certs are brand specific but not edition specific. The OEM restore disks (like dell provides) already incorporate the key and the cert so activate automatically in the right computer.

Bios modding is a way of spoofing genuine OEM activation by adding the SLIC table to a bios which originally did not have such a table. It is a technique resorted to by hardcore pirates but is not a commercially viable method because of the extent of customization and the risks involved.
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25 May 2010   #15
gregrocker

 

When doing a clean install with genuine Windows on a BIOS which may have had SLIC modified for whatever reason, is formatting or zeroing the HD sufficient, or does one need to reflash the BIOS with latest version again?

I am still not clear in what cases a BIOS needs to be somehow "modded" to clean reinstall Factory OEM Win7 using a retail installer, as I've never had to do this. What are the markers for a BIOS lock and related settings or fixes?
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25 May 2010   #16
Bill2

Windows 7 x64 pro/ Windows 7 x86 Pro/ XP SP3 x86
 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by gregrocker View Post
When doing a clean install with genuine Windows on a BIOS which may have had SLIC modified for whatever reason, is formatting or zeroing the HD sufficient, or does one need to reflash the BIOS with latest version again?

I am still not clear in what cases a BIOS needs to be somehow "modded" to clean reinstall Factory OEM Win7 using a retail installer, as I've never had to do this. What are the markers for a BIOS lock and related settings or fixes?
1) SLIC comes into play only for OEM activation, its existence or absence is immaterial for other types of activation or for anything at all. Its sole purpose is to let the big OEMs deploy a single image across multiple computers using a standard certificate and a standard (though edition specific) key. You dont need to do anything other than the usual stuff (format, claen install etc.) if you want to install with a genuine disk.

2) Factory OEM installer is different from a retail installer. The OEM installer is customised by the concerned OEM to include a key and cert. When used on a computer with the right bios marker, these 3 components click together to activate. A retail installer doesnt have any key or cert, so it cant do the same.

3) The bios lock needs, as i mentioned earlier, a SLIC (software licencing description table) table, version 2.1 (It was 2.0 for Vista). It can be added manually to the bios using bios-vendor-specific tools, then flashed in the usual way.

Some bioses are difficult to modify such as the ones on Sony Vaio.

However, no tools exist as of now, to mod the newer EFI/UEFI bioses that are now being introduced. E.g., the new Phoenix Instant Boot Bios is an EFI bios.

I hope this helps.
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25 May 2010   #17
gregrocker

 

You are referring to how factory OEM disks self-activate, correct?

I was trying to clear up any confusion that a retail and OEM installer in Vista/7 are the same (they are) and can be used to reinstall Factory OEM with the key on the COA sticker, as I have done many times.

It normally requires an activation robocall which I think is to sort the actual key from the batch key on sticker. Sometimes the key audited from the HD using a keyfinder is different, but it also requires the robocall at times so I am not sure why the difference.
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25 May 2010   #18
Bill2

Windows 7 x64 pro/ Windows 7 x86 Pro/ XP SP3 x86
 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by gregrocker View Post
You are referring to how factory OEM disks self-activate, correct?

I was trying to clear up any confusion that a retail and OEM installer in Vista/7 are the same (they are) and can be used to reinstall Factory OEM with the key on the COA sticker, as I have done many times.

It normally requires an activation robocall which I think is to sort the actual key from the batch key on sticker. Sometimes the key audited from the HD using a keyfinder is different, but it also requires the robocall at times so I am not sure why the difference.
I'm not sure I get your point. In OEM systems, the actual key is the batch key. When somebody's OEM system crashes and they need to reinstall, they can use the sticker key with the robocall.

Did I understand you right?
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26 May 2010   #19
gregrocker

 

Why the robocall if there is no hardware change? Have heard it is because the key on sticker is a "batch key" to save manufacturer's time stickering machines. So it requires the robocall only to sort out the individual key from the batch.
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26 May 2010   #20
Bill2

Windows 7 x64 pro/ Windows 7 x86 Pro/ XP SP3 x86
 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by gregrocker View Post
Why the robocall if there is no hardware change? Have heard it is because the key on sticker is a "batch key" to save manufacturer's time stickering machines. So it requires the robocall only to sort out the individual key from the batch.
1) The COA keys (sticker keys) are unique. Technically speaking, there is no such thing as a "batch" key for MS product keys. If you mean a standard key, then that can only refer to OEM SLP keys.

2) About the robocall- The COA key is often unused since OEM customers never need to activate their system nor need to to enter any product key on first use. What used to happen, particularly in times of XP, was that unscrupulous chaps would read off COA keys from shop PCs and sell these off as genuine. As these keys were never used before, they were treated as genuine and valid.

To stop this, MS disabled online activation for COA keys. That is why the robocall is required- to obtain an installation ID which will override the invalid product key control, provided you can prove that your copy of Windows is genuine and legitimate by answering a few questions. MS reckoned it would cut down on a significant source of piracy with minimal impact on legit users who hardly ever used the COA key. That is the theory, one can argue how effective it is in practice.
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