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Windows 7: Encoding Speed

17 Jan 2011   #61
seekermeister

W7x64 Pro, SuSe 12.1/** W7 x64 Pro, XP MCE
 
 

The odd thing is that DVDFab only does a single pass by default, which I never changed, and it got good results. Obviously, a single pass is quicker than two, so DVDFab is getting both speed and quality at the same time. Everything else that I have tried is always slower, and too often of less quality. The only problem with DVDFab is that it failed on a significant number of my DVDs, and I'm having to use some other ripper in it's place to finish the job.


My System SpecsSystem Spec
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17 Jan 2011   #62
Wishmaster

Windows 7 Home Premium 64bit
 
 

Yes, going above the the orginal sources bit rate will not help anything.

You just want to find one that keeps the quality looking good, as of course a bit lower than the original so the file will be smaller. Since thats the purpose of recoding.

The bitrate calculators are handy for hitting a certain file size.

Lets say, for example you have these requirements you want or need:
1) Use AAC 5.1 Audio at 385kbs
2) Use a MP4 Container
3) The total File size can not exceed 2GB

The bitrate calculator will help you find the maximum bitrate you can use, while still maintaining the requirements you want or need.

Set the movie length
Select Audio Codec and Bitrate (In this case AAC 385)
Select the conatiner you are going to use, in this example MP4.
Finaly, set the total size you are aiming for.

As you can see here, its telling me that if I want the File to be 2GB in size, I need to use up to a 2,146 Bitrate without exceeding that size.
Encoding Speed-capture.jpg


Theres a bitrate calculator in MeGUI (since you already have it) in the tools menu if you would like to check it out.



As far as bit rates go, theres a point where blockiness goes away.
Further increses will help improve quality and detail in complex scenes.

But you will not be able to make the encode better than the original.


My System SpecsSystem Spec
17 Jan 2011   #63
Wishmaster

Windows 7 Home Premium 64bit
 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by seekermeister View Post
The odd thing is that DVDFab only does a single pass by default, which I never changed, and it got good results. Obviously, a single pass is quicker than two, so DVDFab is getting both speed and quality at the same time. Everything else that I have tried is always slower, and too often of less quality. The only problem with DVDFab is that it failed on a significant number of my DVDs, and I'm having to use some other ripper in it's place to finish the job.

The main advantage to a 2 pass encode is effeciency. True, it takes a bit longer.
But it works a bit like this:

In a 1 pass encode, the encoder attempts to maintain an average Bitrate, or average quality setting.
In somewhat guesses as to the best way to do this.

In a 2 pass encode, the encoder runs through the entire film, and analyses it.
It can then make a better decision as how to allocate everything.

For example, if you want a average bitrate of 1500. It may decide with a 2pass encode that:

In scene 4, I can get by with just a 1000 bit rate. Not much going on here.
But in Scene 5, It should really be around 2000.
By doing that first pass, it has a better idea of how to calculate where to increase, or lower bitrates to acieve the best results.

By the time its all said and done, the overall average bitrate will be what you set it at.



Now if you prefer the 1 pass type encode (many do) MEGUI does have that option.
It will attempt to maintain a constant quality throughout the entire film.

However, it does not take average bitrate or file size into account.
That can be controlled a little bit by the Quality setting.
Its also alot faster.

Try These settings if you want to try it like that:
Encoding Speed-capture.jpg

In Const. Quailty settings The lower the number the Higher the Quality of the file. But also, the larger the file.

Larger numbers = less quality , smaller file sizes.

Generally, 19-21 are good areas.

20 should be fairly fast, with decent quality and file sizer.
19 a bit better, but slightly larger file size.


I only mention this because I didn't when we discussing this yetserday.
I probably should have being as you did mention you wanted it as fast as possible.


My System SpecsSystem Spec
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17 Jan 2011   #64
seekermeister

W7x64 Pro, SuSe 12.1/** W7 x64 Pro, XP MCE
 
 

My desire is to simply equal the orignal, with the smallest file size possible, and do it as fast as possible. When you speak of increases improving quality and detail, are you saying that about using a number greater than minimal, or greater than the source? If I'm understanding, using too high of a bitrate won't effect anything, but using too small of a number will...right?
My System SpecsSystem Spec
17 Jan 2011   #65
Wishmaster

Windows 7 Home Premium 64bit
 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by seekermeister View Post
My desire is to simply equal the orignal, with the smallest file size possible, and do it as fast as possible. When you speaking of increases improving quality and detail, are you saying that about using a number greater than minimal, or greater than the source? If I'm understanding, using too high of a bitrate won't effect anything, but using too small of a number will...right?

Yes to small of a bit rate will lead to blockiness and overall poor image quality.

Generally speaking, I like to keep a DVD at 1500 at the least, up to around 2000.
It depends on the DVD itself.

Ive just found that using at least 1500 usually looks good overall, which is why I suggested starting there and then increasing it as you see fit.



But keep in mind, any encoder that uses a Const. Quality type of setting, will not allow you to adjust bit rate. It just tries to keep thing at a set Quality level, no matter how much it needs to do it with.
As I mention, increasing the Quality setting can make the files smaller though if you want them to be.

In ways this is a good thing. Because it may encode one DVD with average bitrate of say 1500, and the next one may average 1900, even though you used the same settings.
This is because thats what it decided was needed for that particular film.
My System SpecsSystem Spec
17 Jan 2011   #66
seekermeister

W7x64 Pro, SuSe 12.1/** W7 x64 Pro, XP MCE
 
 

That doesn't quite answer all of my question. Let me rephrase...since the original can't be improved, the objective is to encode the data exactly as it is on the DVD...yes? If this is so, it would seem that the ideal solution would be to use an encoder that automatically analyzes all of the factors necessary to obtain that result. Since this does not seem to be the case, is there a means to obtain the source's data statistics, so that these can be used, rather than resorting to rules of thumb?

EDIT: Nevermind, after thinking about it, I realized that would only result in a huge file size, like when copying a DVD to the drive.
My System SpecsSystem Spec
17 Jan 2011   #67
Wishmaster

Windows 7 Home Premium 64bit
 
 

Well, not exactly.
It doesnt always mean a larger file.

But, the thing is you can't have it both ways.

And by that I mean, if you are after speed, you can encode Videos quite quickly, but they will be lacking in overall Quality because of it.

If you are after quality, then you will be lacking in encoding speed because of it.



There are many other factors other than the bitrate that affect the overall quality. Although bitrate is typically considered the major one.
For example, ME Range, ME Algorithm, Subpixel Refinements, B-Frames, Lookahead ...


All of these settings set to higher values will make the encode look better, even though the bitrate itself is the same. It basically how the x264 compresses and reproduces the original image.
Unfortunately, it also takes time for the encoder to encode this way.
The good thing about it though, is that these quality gains can be achieved with the same bitrates and filesize.


It really comes down to preference, and what you think is the best balance between Quality and speed.

I do apologize if I am confusing you more than helping.
Even though I know how, Im not that great at explaining it sometimes.
My System SpecsSystem Spec
17 Jan 2011   #68
Wishmaster

Windows 7 Home Premium 64bit
 
 

I would agree, AnyDVD is certainly worth having.

I really do not use Xvid much, as I prefer the x264. It looks much better to me.

I typically stick with the H264 codec for video, and either AC3 or AAC for audio.
Conatiners are usually MP4 or MKV, depending on what it is, and the file size.
My System SpecsSystem Spec
17 Jan 2011   #69
seekermeister

W7x64 Pro, SuSe 12.1/** W7 x64 Pro, XP MCE
 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by Joules View Post
Hi Wishmaster and seeker, I believe the best encoder your gonna find and software for the job is DVD Rebuilder I guarantee no other dvd rebuilding encoder is better for the price. I've use it and seen unbelievable results and the price is worthy of the software, if you two are this into ripping movies and encoding them then Anydvd is what I use to rip to the harddrive and then use dvd rebuilder to encode with some very high quality encoders even cce encoders can be used which are the best. The only draw back is that it takes a little knowledge on how to set it up to use the cce encoder trial version (cause it is a 1000 dollar encoder) which use can use with a piece of software that allows the trial to be used like it should, it's not a hack or anything bad but I will tell you I did some movies that the quality was poor and they came out like butter afterwards....This is if you have some priceless stuff you want to restore or if this is your hobbie. Wishmaster your know what your talking about do you do xvid and all that without one click apps?
It sounds to me that you are more into this than I am. A $1000 encoder is not something that I would even consider, unless it was for a means to make a profit, and for me, this is just something that I want to do for myself. I don't even consider it a hobby, unless I knew a lot more about it than I do.

I just came across a movie, which I had encoded twice by accident. Once in DVDFab, and once in WinX DVD. I just ran both, for the purpose of deciding which to keep. The DVDFab file is in MKV, and the WinX DVD file is in MPG. Even though neither of them were truly perfect, DVDFab was noticeably better, even though it's file size was ~200,000KBs smaller, and I'm certain that it took less time to run.

I just ran the movie directly from the DVD, and it appears that the DVDFab copy is as good as the DVD, so I doubt that a $1000 encoder would do any better.
My System SpecsSystem Spec
17 Jan 2011   #70
seekermeister

W7x64 Pro, SuSe 12.1/** W7 x64 Pro, XP MCE
 
 

Some of my videos have a bit of audio noise in them. I can reduce this by adjusting the settings on my sound card, but I was wondering if there is a way to eliminate this while encoding the movie?
My System SpecsSystem Spec
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