Normalize All Files With Nero Or Simply Use MP3Gain. Which Is Best?

Burn CDs With Nero's "Normalize All Files" Box Checked, Or Simply Use MP3Gain Without Nero's "Normalize All Files" Box Checked. Which Is Best?


Can someone help me with something that’s driving me up the wall?

I’m kinda new to burning CDs with Nero, and, after burning quite a few of them with the “Normalize All Audio Files” box checked, I noticed that the volume levels still had too much variance. So I did I a track analysis of my entire mp3 collection using MP3Gain, and discovered what I thought was the culprit: the decibel levels of all of the songs in my collection ranged anywhere from 75 dB to 99 dB—too much for Nero’s normalizer to handle, I suppose!

So, thinking that once I got all my songs down to a closer dB range, I ran my entire mp3 collection through MP3Gain, using 89.0 as my target setting. What I got (and now have) is a dB range of 88.2 to 89.8, which I thought would produce better results when I re-burned my CDs with these new values and with Nero’s “Normalize All Audio Files” box checked.

My hopes were dashed (I think!) about a week ago when I came across a little blip about this subject in an online forum (a blip on a web page that, sadly, I neglected to bookmark and, for some reason, can no longer seem to find) that mentioned something along the lines of Nero first converting (by default) mp3 files to .wav format BEFORE the burning process begins, thereby undoing any plus or minus gains made with MP3Gain—thereby defeating one’s purpose. If this holds true, then I’m simply wasting my time!

If Nero does in fact convert to .wav format first before the burning process begins, and if conversion simply reverts my mp3s to their original values, then the only alternative I can see (since using Nero’s “Normalize All Audio Files” isn’t giving me the desired results) is to burn my CDs without checking the “Normalize All Audio Files” box. But herein lies another problem: As I’ve stated, the new dB range for my audio collection is between 88.2 dB to 89.8 dB, which is a plus or minus variance of .8 dB on my ideal 89.0 setting. I can deal with this, I suppose, but am still noticing changes in volume, especially when, for example, I’ve just listened to 3 songs at 88.2 dB and the next song that plays has a dB of 89.8 dB—which is a difference of 1.6db!). Add to this the fact that there are a bunch of songs in my collection that MPGain just couldn’t seem to place in the 88.2 dB to 89.8 dB range (some of my mp3s are actually still as low as 83 dB), and it would appear that I’m STILL going to be constantly adjusting the volume while listening to CDs! It’s enough to drive someone nuts—and I certainly can’t be the first and only person to encounter this.

Is there anyone out there who has the answers I need to create a more uniform volume level for my CD-listening experience? At this stage, I just don’t see the point in burning any more CDs until I get my head around this.

First off, I want to thank you for taking the time to try to help me with all this. But, as much as I appreciate your response, I must admit that I’m still awfully confused. If you have the time, and willingness, to respond to me again, I’ve compiled a list of six questions below that perhaps you could answer, one by one—even if it’s a simple yes-or-no answer. Since you have your own recording studio, you seem to be the ideal person to help me get out of this Nero/MP3Gain nightmare in which I find myself! If you just don’t have the time to respond to me again, I understand, and am grateful for your attempt to assist me. And I’ll just keep plodding along here in this and other forums hoping the get the answers I need so I can finally start burning some good-SOUNDING CDs.

1) As I stated in my original post: After burning quite a few CDs, via Nero, with the “Normalize All Audio Files” box checked, I noticed that the volume levels still had too much variance. So I did I a track analysis of my entire mp3 collection using MP3Gain, and discovered what I thought was the culprit: the decibel levels of all of the songs in my collection ranged anywhere from 75 dB to 99 dB—too much for Nero’s normalizer to handle, I supposed! (Remember that I’m kinda new to this CD-burning game, so I can only make uneducated guess at this point!) Thinking that if I first got all my songs down to the same relative dB range, I could fix the problem, I ran my entire mp3 collection through MP3Gain, using 89.0 as my target setting. What I got (and now have) is a dB range of 88.2 to 89.8, which I thought would produce better results when I re-burned my CDs with these new values and with Nero’s “Normalize All Audio Files” box checked.

Then I found a post in another online forum from someone stating that Nero first converts song files to .wav format BEFORE burning, and such conversion automatically reverts all MP3Gain changes back to their original values—thereby defeating one’s purpose. If this holds true, then I’m simply wasting my time!

So my first question to you is: Does Nero in fact convert to .wav format before burning, and, if so, am I just wasting my time using MP3Gain? I’m assuming from your post that you’re saying “yes” to this question.

2) If Nero does convert to .wav format first before the burning process begins, and if conversion simply reverts my mp3s to their original values, then the only alternative I can see (since using Nero’s “Normalize All Audio Files” isn’t giving me the desired results) is to burn my CDs without checking the “Normalize All Audio Files” box. But herein lies another problem: As I’ve already stated, the new dB range for my audio collection is 88.2 to 89.8 dB, which is a plus or minus variance of .8 dB on my ideal 89.0 setting. I can deal with this, I suppose, but am still noticing changes in volume, especially when, for example, I’ve just listened to 3 songs at 88.2 dB and the next song that plays has a dB of 89.8 dB—which is a difference of 1.6db!). Add to this the fact that there are a bunch of songs in my collection that MPGain just couldn’t seem to place in the 88.2 to 89.8 dB range (some of my mp3s are actually still as low as 83 dB), and it would appear that I’m STILL going to be constantly adjusting the volume while listening to CDs!

And, since that is the case, which of the two methods would YOU suggest I use? Do just settle for the best I can get with Nero’s “Normalize All Audio Files” box checked, or do I burn my MP3Gain-converted files (settling for the 88.2 dB to 89.8 dB range as the best I’m going to be able to achieve) WITHOUT Nero’s “Normalize All Audio Files” box checked? Or, is there a third alternative that I’m unaware of? My hands are tied here at this end until I can figure out the best method. Or, IS there no “best” method, and EVERYONE who burns CDs runs into this volume problem no matter what method they use?

3) Does the same thing apply when I’m trying to burn an entire ALBUM to a CD? That is, if I’ve used MP3Gain’s “Album Gain” function, would I be undoing all the changes I’ve made to the album tracks by checking Nero’s “Normalize All Audio Files” box before burning?

4) Here’s something I’d really like the answer to: If I merge 8 or 9 tracks from one album (let’s say an ambient album) into one long track, do I, via MP3Gain, use the “Album Gain” function or would I now consider this simply one track and use the “Track Gain” function instead before burning the CD?

5) I realize that when using MP3Gain to get all the tracks on an album to be at the same volume, I am to use the “Album Gain” function. But sometimes, when making compilation CDS (say a “Best Of “ CD by a particular artist), I run into the problem of some of the tracks not being in the 88.2 to 89.8 dB range. Some of my tracks, after running them through MP3Gain are stuck at, say, 83.0 to 85 dB; and, no matter what I do I can’t get the values any higher without clipping them. But when I run these same tracks through MP3Gain using the “Album Gain” function (instead of the “Track Gain” function, which I’m supposed to use), I most certainly can get ALL the tracks at the same and acceptable volume. I guess my question is this: Can I use “Album Gain” on a collection of tracks that aren’t all from the same album (instead of using Track Gain) if it’s the only way to get the desired volume for all the tracks? And, most importantly, will it work?

6) I have some old comedy skits (with sound effects, etc.) that my friends and I did years ago, which, until most recently, sat on the original cassettes onto which they were recorded until I converted them into individual mp3s. Back in the day, we weren’t privy to software programs like WavePad and iZotope RX 4 Advanced (which I have on my computer) that would allow us to edit and clean up these skits to our liking. Now, happily, I’m able to do that. I’ve had no problem removing the hiss from all of these old skits, via these software programs, and they sound great. But here’s the problem: Many of these skits were done over a period of time, sometimes using different microphones and other equipment, and therefore, have different volume levels throughout. And I’ve actually even cut and pasted parts of some skits into other skits—parts that are now louder than the skits they’ve pasted onto. And all of this was done BEFORE I knew anything about “normalization,” etc.

So now I have all these skits that not only have different volume levels throughout, but, when I burn them to a CD, after trying out both methods mentioned above (i.e., with the “Normalize All Audio Files” box checked, or with the box unchecked and merely burning the mp3s at or near the 89.0db target volume, after using MP3Gain), the volumes of each skit, and on all of the skits as a whole, are all over the place! And I haven’t a clue as to how to rectify this.

Knowing what software programs I have to work with (i.e., WavePad and iZotope RX 4 Advanced), do you know what I can do to get each skit to individually have the same volume level throughout, but, when burning ALL the skits onto a CD, making sure that ALL of the them now have the same volume level?

Why does this have to be so damn hard? What and I not understanding here?

Once again, I really do appreciate all your advice, time, and effort to help me. But, to be honest with you, there simply MUST be a better way for me to do this than to have to now convert all the thousands of mp3s in my audio collection to .wav format BEFORE I can burn them to CD just to get the volume on each of them to sound the same when playing my CDs. Just think of how much disk space such a conversion would use up! I'll continue to put my S.O.S. out on this and other forums until I find a more suitable and reasonable solution!

plutosun said:

Once again, I really do appreciate all your advice, time, and effort to help me. But, to be honest with you, there simply MUST be a better way for me to do this than to have to now convert all the thousands of mp3s in my audio collection to .wav format BEFORE I can burn them to CD just to get the volume on each of them to sound the same when playing my CDs. Just think of how much disk space such a conversion would use up! I'll continue to put my S.O.S. out on this and other forums until I find a more suitable and reasonable solution!

Why in the world would you think that a conversion to WAV would solve anything?

Your ear doesn't care if it's listening to mp3s, WAV, FLAC, or whatever. It reacts the same way regardless.

I want to thank you for once again caring enough about my dilemma to respond yet again. At the risk of looking like I still just don't get it, are you telling me to hell with checking Nero's normalize" box, and simply accept the imperfect 82.8 to 89.8 decibel range I've attained through MP3Gain because that's simply the best I can do--unless I want to start looking into manually adjusting waveforms (which sounds like an awfully tedious task)?

I promise to mark this post as "solved" (for real this time!) no matter what your response, because, as a newbie, I especially don't want to start off on the wrong foot here by busting everyone's chops with my personal Nero/MP3Gain challenges!

It isn't that I personally think that a .wav conversion would mean anything. It's that I read on another forum that Nero's normalization function converts all mp3s to .wav BEFORE burning to CD, thereby UNDOING any MP3Gain changes made to sound files--making one simply wasting their time. I guess it doesn't really matter now, because I think you're telling me to skip normalization and simply accept the dB range MP3Gain has given me. The only other problem I have is whether I should use MP3Gain's "TrackGain" or "AlbumGain" when converting tracks from an album that have been merged into one single track (as in the case of merging an ambient album's tracks). God, what I wouldn't give for some kind of online course that could just spell all this out for me, so I wouldn't have to bug the shi# out of total strangers like you. Still, it's nice to know that people like you are out there to lend a helping hand to us audio-challenged folk!

plutosun said:

are you telling me to hell with checking Nero's normalize" box, and simply accept the imperfect 82.8 to 89.8 decibel range I've attained through MP3Gain because that's simply the best I can do--unless I want to start looking into manually adjusting waveforms (which sounds like an awfully tedious task)?

No.

I'm not telling you to do anything other than experiment, trust your own ears and results, and continue to search for a magical solution if you think there is one.

If you can satisfy your own ears by doing XYZ, then by all means do exactly that.

I am aware of only certain tools. Maybe you will find another tool or some previously unheard solution. More power to you. Tell us what it is.

I notice the "varying volume" problem occasionally on my source material. In a very quiet environment and with serious listening, I wouldn't find it serious enough to want to reach for the volume knob more than 1 song in 50. For casual listening, less often than that.

That's not to say I can't recognize volume differences more often, but not enough to make me want to adjust. I realize and expect varying volumes WITHIN a song. I like that. That's part of the enjoyment of listening.

But much, maybe most, post 1990 recordings don't have that natural dynamic range. It's a near-constant crescendo. But I don't listen to that stuff anyway.

I quit going to movie theaters due to the constantly deafening volume. It's part of the same syndrome as the lack of dynamic range in modern music and loudness wars I previously told you about. It's a laughable attempt to get rubes (that would be radio listeners) to not switch stations. Advertising driven.

I have no idea what I would notice on your source material.

Nor do I have any idea how frequently you would notice the "varying volume" problem on my source material.

Do what you want.