Win7 can't access Vista Biz on Workgroup

paul1149 · Aug 2, 2011

Hi,

I've got a Vista Business x32 box and a Win7 Home Premium x64 box on my local Workgroup. Each box sees the other box on the network. Vista can access all the Win 7 shares. Win7 cannot access Vista.

On each box, network discovery is turned on, as is file/printer sharing. I have passwords turned off. I have rebooted both boxes after making changes. When I try to access Vista in Win7, I get a user/password query nonetheless, and I am denied access because of incorrect user or password.

The account name and password on each box is the same, and they are very simple, with no practical chance for input error. The workgroup is via router. Win7 is wireless, Vista in over ethernet.

One other thing puzzles me. When Win7 first accessed Vista, I saw the entire Vista User folder structure wide open. I can't imagine how it was deemed sharable. I went into Vista, and though Sharing wasn't enabled on the Properties sheet, when I clicked Advanced it was. I unshared there, and the problem was solved. But why were these folders accessible in the first place, and why didn't their shared status show on the Properties sheet without delving deeper?

seavixen32 · Aug 2, 2011

Check this Microsoft article: Networking home computers running different versions of Windows

paul1149 · Aug 2, 2011

Thanks. Running through that, I find the following snags:

On Vista Biz, I can't make the network Work or Home. The choices are Public or Private. I don't think that's significant. I've selected Private, which affords the most open discovery and sharing.

I don't see any blockages in the Windows firewalls. Yet still I can't connect to the Vista machine. Puzzling.

paul1149 · Aug 2, 2011

It looks like the problem is on the Win7 end. I just fired up an XP box, and it had no problem seeing the Vista public folders. Something is clogged on this end.

Edit: I just dropped the Win7 firewall, to no avail. For some reason Win7 is requiring a log in for me to connect out to Vista, when Vista itself doesn't require it.

2xg · Aug 2, 2011

Hello,

Can you pls. provide some ipconfig /all output on both computers for review?
Click on Start => in run or search box type cmd, choose run as Admin and press enter. Open up a command prompt then Copy and Paste these ipconfig /all >c:\ipconfig.txt . Please attach the .txt file to be found in your Local Disk 'C' on your next post.

paul1149 · Aug 2, 2011

I'm attaching the two ipconfigs. But I believe I've identified the problem. Home Premium does not allow changing the method of authentication. Check out this thread: Windows 7 can't access Share in a workgroup for unbelievable evidence of inexcusable incompetence by MS. Now I'm clear on why I spent a solid week half a year ago trying to get this machine to network with a linux box, without a hint of success. I like Win7 in many ways, but I can't see how professionals can tolerate this level of brokenness.

2xg · Aug 2, 2011

Win7 has WINS Server, Vista doesn't. Lets remove WINS server.

Primary WINS Server . . . . . . . : 192.168.1.1

1. Open Network Connections (Start > Run >ncpa.cpl ).
2. Right-click the Wireless connection , and click Properties .
3. Double-click Internet Protocol Version 4 (TCP/IPv4) .
4. Click Properties > Advanced > WINS .
5. Remove any WINS server addresses.

Test your connection after and pls post an update.

paul1149 · Aug 3, 2011

After a reboot, that made no difference. Now, though, under Network/Media Devices, it lists Vista/Paul, and when I click it, a song that I have on the Win7 box comes up -which makes no sense at all.

2xg · Aug 3, 2011

Let's do some tests, please do this on both computers:

Create a new folder, you may share the entire C drive for now and call it 'C'.

Now, try to access the C shared drive, click on Start and type \\ComputerName\C. Also, try \\IPAddress\C
Are you able to access the new shared drive?

Disable any Firewall or Security Software for now.

paul1149 · Aug 3, 2011

OK, I dropped firewalls and realtime shields. I created a folder, "A", under each C drive. I made them shares, and I went in and gave create/modify rights to Everyone.

I went to the Start menu on Lenovo (the problematic Win7 laptop), and on entering \\Vista the Vista shares appeared above. I clicked on A and I was in.

I created new text docs in each folder, and saw the changes on the other boxes. I modified the file on Win7 using Vista, and was able to save. I modified the file on Vista using Win7, and I was not able to save.

Also, Win7 sees \\Vista\Users\Default and \Guest. Neither of those users are shares.

So, the questions are:

what opened Vista up to Win7
why aren't Modify rights bilateral
why are unshared folders showing up as shares

This seems like very haphazard behavior. My next move is restore the firewalls and scanners, one at a time. Thanks for the guidance so far.

p.

paul1149 · Aug 3, 2011

Here's what I found:

Reenabling the firewalls and scanners made no difference.
I'm getting strange behavior when I change Sharing and Security on folders. For instance, I removed sharing from the Vista\Users hierarchy, yet it still showed (but was unavailable) on Win7. I then went in and removed Everyone from the Security tab list, and Closed the Properties sheet. But when I went back in, Sharing was enabled again.
I've now discovered that there is a difference between Sharing Permissions and Security Permissions. I had no idea. When I assign sharing permissions in Vista to Win7, my access problem disappeared. When I took Everyone off sharing permissions on Vista\Users, that folder disappeared from Win7, as I wished.

I don't have a handle on this enough yet, to understand what the problem was previous to this experiment. I need to work with it some more, to understand what is going on.

I will get back as I reach conclusions. Thanks again for the guidance thus far!

p.

paul1149 · Aug 4, 2011

I've got to say, this is working well. This morning, I found my share folder no longer allowed modify permissions across the LAN. Failure of settings to stick has been an ongoing problem. But as soon as I re-granted those share permissions, the problem cleared up. At this point it looks like I needed a lesson on the difference between Share permissions and NTFS file permissions. Now I'm being tempted to retry using Linux as a server along with Win7 clients.

Once again, many thanks!

paul1149 · Aug 4, 2011

I've got to say, again, that this is screwed. I'm getting extremely uneven results across the network. I had Win7 set not to require passwords, yet one box, an XPh laptop, had to sign in before it could access the shares. I cloned the XP account on Win7: no difference.

I did the same with the Vista account, then set a share to Authenticated. Vista can't access the share. The only thing that seems to work is EVERYONE, period, and even then, I might have to log in from some boxes, on certain days.

This situation is out of control. I understand these things must have a certain degree of complexity, but MS has created a byzantine nightmare. Apparently the only way to get reliable, to say nothing of nuanced, performance is via Pro, with domains.

2xg · Aug 4, 2011

It can be frustrating sometimes. Does your computers have the latest SP's?

You may enable back if you have not Windows built-in Firewall and exclude Files/Printer sharing. If you have a Firewall or Security Software, disable the Service running (type services.msc).

Usually Professions/Ultimate Windows O/S's do play nicely on file sharing. You may tweak it more than Home Edition. At work, I never had any issues on any Windows O/S's.

Are both O/S's Vista and 7 both Home Edition?

paul1149 · Aug 4, 2011

No, Vista is Business, which I guess is the equivalent of Pro. It supports domains.

After I opened everything up to Everyone, I've been using sharing all day here. But then I just expanded the network on the Win7 box, and nothing but the router showed - not even the Win7 box itself. Close/open Explorer: no difference. But on the Vista box, I could access the Win7 share. How on earth can anyone rely on a system like that? The whole thing is so unstable that it is hopeless. MS intentionally dumbed it down, looking for that almighty dollar.

I also played with TrueCrypt to try to get selective access, but it doesn't do it either. Ironically, I can get this pretty easily by uploading to the cloud rather than sharing on the LAN, but that's equally ridiculous.

2xg · Aug 4, 2011

Have you tried using mapped network drive rather than going to the Network to find the shared folder?

You may also use the classic method of going to Start then type \\IPAddress\Sharedfolder
I do this all the time, and again creating a mapped network drive is another option if you can get his alternate method to work.
Yes it's equivalent to Pro.

No, Vista is Business, which I guess is the equivalent of Pro.

NAS(Network Attached Storage) is another solution for File sharing, hassle free to setup. I use this at my home and it works so well.

paul1149 · Aug 4, 2011

I haven't tried mapping during this latest go-round, except with TrueCrypt, where it worked. The Win7 box decided to show the Vista machine just now, for no reason at all. Still doesn't show itself or the XP box that's on the LAN. I'm afraid this is hopeless. Probably a reboot will refresh things, but this is nothing I can count on. Really makes me want to switch to Linux.

Yes, all boxes are fully up to date.

Thanks for all you help. Be well and be blessed.

Paul

2xg · Aug 4, 2011

Pls. try pinging the Vista's IP: ping 192.168.1.2 -t and report if there's any time out in between.

Yes, definitely try the mapping of network drive, then create a shortcut on the desktop from Win7 machine, see if the connection to the shared folder gets disconnected.

Just to verify, you have the latest driver of the Vista's network adapter?

paul1149 · Aug 5, 2011

The pings went well, but again, by then I could see Vista in the Win7 Explorer. It would be an interesting test for when Vista drops out of Explorer.

All adapter drivers are up to date, as are the Windows installations.

I'm currently testing an external drive, so I can't reboot yet, but I suspect doing so will return the full network to the Win7 box. At that time I'll try mapping, but I don't hold out much hope for anything but an amateur level of file sharing from Home Premium.

Thanks again.

2xg · Aug 5, 2011

I switch all our home computers O/S's to Windows 7 Ult/Pro and all File sharing are playing nicely so far.

A great idea to use an external drive for file sharing, again....might be better to consider NAS.

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