one of 4 machines gets lower bandwidth

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  1. Posts : 6,379
    Windows 7 Ultimate x64
       #11

    That optimizer is in large part snake oil, sorry. Windows 7 already has an optimized TCP/IP stack and you may inadvertently mess up the stack. A program like that was more applicable to XP. Especially for tweaking the number of half open connections.

    You're issue could just very will be browser side. Do EXACTLY this and tell me if you have the same issue.

    Download Firefox portable and extract. (this is stand alone) In Firefox portable go to speed.cloudflare.com It'll take a good minute or so -- wait for the final results. What's the jitter by chance? What's the speed?

    Go to your usual site of testmy.net in portable Firefox.
      My Computer


  2. Posts : 325
    windows 7 Pro 64 Bit
    Thread Starter
       #12

    F22 Simpilot said:
    That optimizer is in large part snake oil, sorry. Windows 7 already has an optimized TCP/IP stack and you may inadvertently mess up the stack. A program like that was more applicable to XP. Especially for tweaking the number of half open connections.

    You're issue could just very will be browser side. Do EXACTLY this and tell me if you have the same issue.

    Download Firefox portable and extract. (this is stand alone) In Firefox portable go to speed.cloudflare.com It'll take a good minute or so -- wait for the final results. What's the jitter by chance? What's the speed?

    Go to your usual site of testmy.net in portable Firefox.
    I haven't/won't use the TCP optimizer.

    To the bolded. I've used 3 different browsers (FF, Chrome & Brave). Do you still suggest FF portable (If I'm not mistaken, requires PortableApp?)
      My Computer


  3. Posts : 6,379
    Windows 7 Ultimate x64
       #13

    Does Internet Speed Test - Measure Network Performance | Cloudflare at least give you a different speed result?

    Did you use my nuke option of resetting the TCP/IP stack with those commands in an elevated command prompt at Github?

    I'm still of the opinion there's a routing table mess up. You can test for this by changing your MAC address as I talked about temporally and see if the router gives you the speed you should have. Or you could try another router. If that works you know it's in the router. In which case a hard reset is in order for the problematic router. Refer to the router's documentation.

    I'm also wondering that you mentioned you have all these routers chained together, this router may not be liking the others. DHCP needs to be off when you connect more than one router. You create static IPs and use the LAN ports.

    How To Connect Two Routers On One Home Network Using A Lan Cable Stock Router Netgear/TP-Link - YouTube


    If you want to go nerdier, give a PE (Preboot Environment) a try. What we will do here is launch an independent PE version of Windows in a live environment and test your speed. If that works in that environment we can then blame the current running OS. Though, Safe Mode does this in a way, but in this test we bypass EVERYTHING in the current running OS. So if there's a problematic driver conflict in the network stack, registry entry, TCP/IP stack mess up, etc the PE environment bypasses all that for testing.

    So, how do we do this, this PE live boot? Simple. Grab the ISO for Hiren's Boot CD. Grab Ventoy. Now write Ventoy to a blank USB drive. After that simple copy/paste the Hiren's Boot CD ISO file (around 3GB in size) to the formatted Ventoy USB stick. You don't extract the ISO or any of that. Now boot the USB stick like you would do if you were to install Windows. The Ventoy menu should load giving you the option to boot Hiren's Boot CD. Once Hiren's Boot CD loads its network stack, launch Firefox and go to your speed testing website and/or speed.cloudflare.com

    What we have done is isolated the current running Windows OS environment to something new and fresh for testing as a control to see if this Internet speed issue is hardware related or software/OS related in the current running OS.

    Hiren's Boot CD

    Ventoy

    - - - Updated - - -

    Okay, to refresh my memory I reread over your posts. I need some clarification here on this statement.


    Router reboot: Yes. In fact, I recently replaced the router on that subnet with an RT-AX86XU, Flashed to the latest Merlin FW.
    Did the old router exhibit this problem?


    What is this "shield" router? I guess what I really need to know is what your network topography looks like. How is everything connected? This could be the issue.

    What does the hardware in the problematic computer look like? Are you using an NVMe drive, PCIe cards and whatnot? The NIC is a PCIe card? Bus speed can be limited in a PCIe slot when an NVMe drive is populating certain slots. You'd have to refer to the motherboard manual on that. Though, even at PCIe x1 it shouldn't be a factor. It could be a bandwidth issue or something else software side though. I'm not sure. Heck, motherboard or RAM could be to blame. Maybe even that specific PCIe slot.

    A. I didn't uninstall the NIC yet (i'ts been a busy week), but, as mentioned in the OP, I did install a different NIC. Speed remained the same. 70<>.
    This right here rules out a router table mess up due to the fact the new NIC would have a new MAC address. I'm assuming this also means a new local IP as well.


    This is hard to help fix without constant testing this and that. If I was there I could probably find the root cause pretty quick.
      My Computer


  4. Posts : 325
    windows 7 Pro 64 Bit
    Thread Starter
       #14

    F22 Simpilot said:
    Does Internet Speed Test - Measure Network Performance | Cloudflare at least give you a different speed result?

    Did you use my nuke option of resetting the TCP/IP stack with those commands in an elevated command prompt at Github?

    I'm still of the opinion there's a routing table mess up. You can test for this by changing your MAC address as I talked about temporally and see if the router gives you the speed you should have. Or you could try another router. If that works you know it's in the router. In which case a hard reset is in order for the problematic router. Refer to the router's documentation.

    I'm also wondering that you mentioned you have all these routers chained together, this router may not be liking the others. DHCP needs to be off when you connect more than one router. You create static IPs and use the LAN ports.

    How To Connect Two Routers On One Home Network Using A Lan Cable Stock Router Netgear/TP-Link - YouTube


    If you want to go nerdier, give a PE (Preboot Environment) a try. What we will do here is launch an independent PE version of Windows in a live environment and test your speed. If that works in that environment we can then blame the current running OS. Though, Safe Mode does this in a way, but in this test we bypass EVERYTHING in the current running OS. So if there's a problematic driver conflict in the network stack, registry entry, TCP/IP stack mess up, etc the PE environment bypasses all that for testing.

    So, how do we do this, this PE live boot? Simple. Grab the ISO for Hiren's Boot CD. Grab Ventoy. Now write Ventoy to a blank USB drive. After that simple copy/paste the Hiren's Boot CD ISO file (around 3GB in size) to the formatted Ventoy USB stick. You don't extract the ISO or any of that. Now boot the USB stick like you would do if you were to install Windows. The Ventoy menu should load giving you the option to boot Hiren's Boot CD. Once Hiren's Boot CD loads its network stack, launch Firefox and go to your speed testing website and/or speed.cloudflare.com

    What we have done is isolated the current running Windows OS environment to something new and fresh for testing as a control to see if this Internet speed issue is hardware related or software/OS related in the current running OS.

    Hiren's Boot CD

    Ventoy

    - - - Updated - - -

    Okay, to refresh my memory I reread over your posts. I need some clarification here on this statement.




    Did the old router exhibit this problem?


    What is this "shield" router? I guess what I really need to know is what your network topography looks like. How is everything connected? This could be the issue.

    What does the hardware in the problematic computer look like? Are you using an NVMe drive, PCIe cards and whatnot? The NIC is a PCIe card? Bus speed can be limited in a PCIe slot when an NVMe drive is populating certain slots. You'd have to refer to the motherboard manual on that. Though, even at PCIe x1 it shouldn't be a factor. It could be a bandwidth issue or something else software side though. I'm not sure. Heck, motherboard or RAM could be to blame. Maybe even that specific PCIe slot.



    This right here rules out a router table mess up due to the fact the new NIC would have a new MAC address. I'm assuming this also means a new local IP as well.


    This is hard to help fix without constant testing this and that. If I was there I could probably find the root cause pretty quick.
    I appreciate all your efforts. I know my inability to post within a reasonable time is an issue, too.

    That said, it has to be a driver issue. After reading your comments, I downloaded and ran a live version of Ubuntu and ran firefox. 104 mbps (I've been wanting to check out latest version of Linux anyway). So we know it's not a HW issue.

    The drivers I have installed on this machine are the Asus drivers that came with the motherboard. I also have them on the other machine (where I've get 104 mbps and have gotten it even when connected to problem machine router).

    I just looked into drivers for this (onboard) NIC. The specific driver available is for win 8.1 (which may be why the other machines tested (2 total, one Win 10, one win 8.1) did fine when hooked up to the problem machine router.

    Intel makes an OS independent driver for this card (includes windows, Linux and VM ware). I've just downloaded that.

    I suppose it's best to remove the existing driver first. I know I can remove it in device manager. Are any further processes (i.e., registry) recommended/required to remove the drivers?

    - - - Updated - - -

    F22 Simpilot said:
    I'm also wondering that you mentioned you have all these routers chained together, this router may not be liking the others. DHCP needs to be off when you connect more than one router. You create static IPs and use the LAN ports.

    How To Connect Two Routers On One Home Network Using A Lan Cable Stock Router Netgear/TP-Link - YouTube

    What is this "shield" router? I guess what I really need to know is what your network topography looks like. How is everything connected? This could be the issue.
    Just to answer the question (which, given my comments above, becomes irrelevant to the solution), the shield router is an internet facing router. The 'subnet' routers are connected to the LAN jacks on the shield router. The subnet routers have different IP addresses. DHCP is enabled and using the subnet router gateway IP . You mentioned that DHCP should be disabled, but I've never had a problem with this configuration.

    I had to jump through some hoops to get Win 7 on this motherboard (Asus Tuf Z370-Plus with onboard NIC). I used the update method from SIW2's update thread. Driver incompatibility due to win 7 on the board should have occurred to me as an issue.

    I'll wait to hear your thoughts on uninstallation of the existing drivers before I proceed.

    Again, thanks for your help.
      My Computer


  5. Posts : 6,379
    Windows 7 Ultimate x64
       #15

    I suppose it's best to remove the existing driver first. I know I can remove it in device manager. Are any further processes (i.e., registry) recommended/required to remove the drivers?
    Not particularly. I would use safe mode WITHOUT networking when removing a driver. That goes for GPUs and all that rot. If used, the uninstaller should clean things up, but if you want to help make sure that happens then Revo Uninstaller can do that. Just make sure it creates a system restore point and make sure the registry entries (if any) that are removed relate to what ever it is you are uninstalling/removing.

    You mentioned that DHCP should be disabled, but I've never had a problem with this configuration.
    Yes, it'll work until you eventually end up with an IP conflict or double NAT situation. Watch this video and read the description. I'll post it here in case the video is removed as is what seems like "YouTube policy" for no good reason...

    How To Connect 2 Routers On 1 Home Network - YouTube



    YouTube Description said:
    Identify your routers as MAIN router and SECONDARY router.

    Connect the two routers with an Ethernet cable. This will be a permanent connection and this cable must always be plugged in if you want the secondary router to access the internet from the main router. This tutorial is for a wired connection, which is the most efficient way to do this.

    It is very important that you plug the cable into the LAN ports on BOTH routers. On your secondary router, put a piece of tape over the WAN port because you will not be using it. The LAN ports are usually 4 ports that all are the same color and look the same. The WAN port is usually separated or a different color. DO NOT USE THIS PORT ON YOUR SECONDARY ROUTER. Only your MAIN router should have a cable in the WAN port that goes to your modem.

    Your MAIN router is connected to the modem and has internet access.

    On the MAIN router:
    1. Ensure DHCP is enabled
    2. Make a note of the IP address (usually 192.168.1.1 but whatever it is, make a note)
    3. Make a note of the subnet mask (usually 255.255.255.0)
    4. Change the DHCP pool of IP addresses to start at something higher than 2 (like 10)

    On the SECONDARY router:
    1. Disable DHCP (DO THIS FIRST BEFORE CHANGING IP ADDRESS!!)
    2. Change IP address to the same as the IP address of the MAIN router except the last part should be .2 and same subnet mask of the MAIN router (usually 255.255.255.0)

    IMPORTANT NOTE ABOUT IP ADDRESS
    DO NOT CHANGE THE IP ADDRESS OF THE MAIN ROUTER
    1. IP addresses must be the exact same on both routers except for the very last octet (the last number).
    2. The subnet masks must match exactly the same on both routers. All numbers of the subnet mask must match exactly the same, even the last octet (the last number).
    3. Copy the IP address from the MAIN router to the SECONDARY router. For example, if the MAIN router is 192.168.1.1 and the SECONDARY router is different like 192.168.0.1 you will see the third octet (the third number) is different. Copy the first three octets from the MAIN router so the SECONDARY matches the MAIN router. DO NOT CHANGE THE IP ADDRESS OF THE MAIN ROUTER.
    4. If one router is 192.168.1.1 and the other is 192.168.0.2 THEN THIS WILL NOT WORK. The first three octets of the IP address must match on both routers. If one router is 192.168.1.1 and the other is 10.0.0.2 THEN THIS WILL NOT WORK. Again, the first 3 octets of the IP address must be the SAME on both routers. Only the last octet can be different.

    |--SAME--| |--DIFFERENT--|
    Router 1: 192.168.1 .1
    Router 2: 192.168.1 .2

    EXAMPLE SETTINGS
    MAIN ROUTER
    ip address: 192.168.1.1
    subnet mask: 255.255.255.0
    dhcp enabled
    dhcp pool
    -low dhcp address: 192.168.1.10
    -high dhcp address: 192.168.1.254

    SECONDARY ROUTER
    ip address: 192.168.1.2
    subnet mask: 255.255.255.0
    dhcp disabled
    dhcp pool doesnt matter because it's disabled

    Optional:
    Change the network names on each router so you know which network is located where. (For example, change the SECONDARY router network to "Erics Room" and the MAIN router to "MAIN" or "LIVINGROOM" or whatever you want). Don't name them the same thing!

    Can this be done wirelessly?
    Yes, but that is not the purpose of this video. Using 2 routers, turning one router into a WiFi Extender is going to degrade your WiFi. Yes it's a feature and you may be able to make it work that way. But connecting the routers with a cable is the most efficient way to connect the two routers. Maybe in the future I will do a video on this. But using the Ethernet cable between the routers is how I recommend doing it.

    Does this address double NAT issue on Playstation or Xbox?
    You should not have a double NAT issue as long as both ends of your Ethernet cable are plugged into LAN ports on both routers. If you were to plug your Ethernet cable into the WAN/Internet port on your secondary router, ONLY THEN will you have a double NAT issue. Put a piece of tape over that WAN port on your SECONDARY router and never use it!

    Why do I need to disable DHCP on the second router?
    It is true that if you do not disable DHCP on the second router that it can and may work temporarily and you may appear to have no issues. But eventually, one of those routers will assign an IP address to a client and then the other router will also assign the same IP address to another client and you will have an IP address conflict. The two routers do not share DHCP information between each other so they don't know what IP addresses the other is handing out. It may "work fine" at first, but eventually you will have an IP address conflict! The devices connected to your secondary router will magically know that they need to go to the main router to get an IP address assigned. Through the magic of networking :) This also requires the 2 routers are connected on the LAN ports on both!


    You may also be interested in this video.

    DO NOT design your network like this!! // FREE CCNA // EP 6 - YouTube


    YouTube comments said:

    RobbieFPV

    2 years ago

    Thanks to this video my home network is more expensive than my actual home.

    HAHAHAHA!
    Last edited by F22 Simpilot; 3 Weeks Ago at 21:35.
      My Computer


  6. Posts : 325
    windows 7 Pro 64 Bit
    Thread Starter
       #16

    Hi F22,
    Just got around to attempting to install the drivers. Turns out that the "OS independent" drivers only support win*.1 and up (in addition to Linux, etc).

    I think I've finally reached the point where I'm going to have to switch to win10 for this machine, but I'm going to peruse the win 10 forums to get info on how best to secure the OS, keep it from phoning home (inasmuch is possible), etc.

    I knew it was coming, as there are apps and devices here that no longer support win 7. For my mission critical apps that won't run on win 10, I'll image my current install to a new offline SSD that I can switch to it when I need to use those apps. Or I may ned up moving on from thsoe to win 10 supported apps. From what I've read about win 11, think I'll pass.

    I haven't read the info you posted on the network setup yet, but will after I get all this straightened out. I'll likely just go ahead and assign static IPs for the subnets, it's not a hassle to do and there's no reason not to and plenty of reason to.

    Again, thanks for all the detailed info. Next step is to gather win 10 info.

    Edit:

    Just thinking...before all that nonsense, I think I'll try running Linux, switching back to Win 7 when I need to run unsupported apps (like my customer database).

    That is, unless you think Win 10 is worth moving to?
      My Computer


  7. Posts : 6,929
    W7 home premium 32bit/W7HP 64bit/w10 tp insider ring
       #17

    Hi

    have a look at your BIOS ..... there is a dedicated settings menu for your MB called Turbo LAN
      My Computer


  8. Posts : 6,379
    Windows 7 Ultimate x64
       #18

    You can always use a virtual machine to do things if need be as well. There is VMware Workstation Player (version 15 is the highest that will work in Windows 7) or Virtualbox and there's Proxmox Virtual Environment. Aside from that look up Tiny10, someones pet project that strips out most of the nonsense. You'll need to furnish a key. There still is some telemetry, but most is gone. Especially the pre-installed App crap. There's also the ability to find a PCIe NIC that has Windows 7 drivers.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Here's a few.

    IBM 39Y6128 PRO/1000 PT Dual-Port Server Adapter Network Interface Card PCI-e 640746728112 | eBay

    HP NC360T 1Gb DUAL PORT Ethernet Adapter PCI-E EXPI9402PT 412646-001 412651-001 | eBay


    Intel PRO1000 PT Dual Port Server Adapter Product Specifications



    List of Discontinued Retail Intel(R) Ethernet Adapters


    Windows 7 should automatically install a driver.
      My Computer


  9. Posts : 325
    windows 7 Pro 64 Bit
    Thread Starter
       #19

    torchwood said:
    Hi

    have a look at your BIOS ..... there is a dedicated settings menu for your MB called Turbo LAN

    Not here. Turbo LAN appears to be an add on app for bandwidth allocation, which isn't my issue. There's only on system on this router.

    - - - Updated - - -

    F22 Simpilot said:
    You can always use a virtual machine to do things if need be as well. There is VMware Workstation Player (version 15 is the highest that will work in Windows 7) or Virtualbox and there's Proxmox Virtual Environment. Aside from that look up Tiny10, someones pet project that strips out most of the nonsense. You'll need to furnish a key. There still is some telemetry, but most is gone. Especially the pre-installed App crap. There's also the ability to find a PCIe NIC that has Windows 7 drivers.

    - - - Updated - - -
    Windows 7 should automatically install a driver.
    I did try another NIC I had laying around with win 7 drivers. Same result. Baffling.

    I haven't used a VM in years. At that time, they were kind of clunky. Is that still the case?
    ______________________________________________________________________________

    Also, I had a read of the youtube description you posted here. Interesting, but doesn't apply in my situation. That primer seems to be for setting up routers on the same network, using the same IP addresses except for the last identifying number.

    My network is set up so that each router is a separate subnet, with different IPs, i.e., 192.168. 42.1 on a internet facing router, 192.168.5.1 on a subnet router (not my actual IPs).
    ______________________________________________________________________________

    The above said, I pondered switching to win 10 and posted in a win 10 forum asking if there were now ways to circumvent data collection. Many of the responses basically labeled me paranoid, and that the only way to avoid data collection is to stay off the grid. Not unexpected, but not helpful at all.

    So I decided to start checking out some Linux distros, which have come a long way since my last forays into Linux. I live booted Zorin and the Manjaro KDE and xfce flavors. I'm impressed. The only caveats to Linux are the limited software compatibilities to windows software.

    All thus far give me the expected bandwidth (>100mbps)

    Frankly, there's going to come a time when Win 7 will be impractical to continue running, so maybe this is a good thing in that it's forced me to branch out. My bandwidth 'reduction' isn't that limiting...I'm still getting 70-80mbps on the machine in question. And it will be good to get away from windows.

    For now, once I pick a distro I'm happy with, I'll install it to a separate SSD and use a SATA front panel to switch between the Windows and Linux boots. I'll play around with it for a while to get used to it and determine how I'll work around the incompatibility of my customer database. I'm not in it everyday, so for now, switching boot drives when necessary should be OK.

    I'll also check out some VMs to run windows in from Linux. Given past experiences with VMs, however, expectations are low.

    Have you tried VMs running windows from Linux?
      My Computer


  10. Posts : 6,379
    Windows 7 Ultimate x64
       #20

    Have you tried VMs running windows from Linux?
    I have not. Something I was always going to try. I've always run Linux in the VM instead. Great thing about it is that you can right click copy/paste the new VM vmdk file and hold that over in case something happens to the other. I copied and paste ten VMs (The VMDK file) of XP this way for a project I had. So, I had ten instances of XP running at the same time on a laptop with only 4GB of RAM. Since XP could easily just use 128-256 MB of RAM it wasn't much of an issue.


    I have no idea why Linux is working and not Windows. Maybe it's a Windows file sharing thing that uses SMB that's doing something in the network to slow you done over Linux. Linux does use SMB of course.

    Is your customer database a CSV, SQLite, or SQL file? Linux alternatives do exist to read and manipulate that data.
      My Computer


 
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