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Windows 7: Homegroup requires same accounts?

09 Jan 2010   #1
alexbu

Windows 7 x64 Ultimate
 
 
Homegroup requires same accounts?

Hello

Have a question about the homegroup - about accounts and passwords.

I have two PCs here, both have same accounts and same passwords. The second PC has an extra user account which doesn't exists on the first PC. The first PC is logged in with an account, existing on both PCs, the second one - with account, existing on this PC only.

I create the homegroup on the first PC with everything by default (share private folders without Documents). In "Advanced shared settings" i have "password protected sharing" on and in "Homegroup connections" - "allow windows to manage homegroup connections" enabled. I add an additional folder to a homegroup sharing with an "everyone read" access (I changed also the permissions for this folder by adding "everyone" read access)

Now I connect the second PC to this homegroup (giving a password). Also all sharings are by default (but now without an additional folder)

But now is a problem. The first PC (where a homegroup was created) can easly browse the homegroup sharings on the second PC. As I told above, I do this from an account, which exists on the second PC too (same name, same password). But the second PC cannot open that extra folder homegroup sharing - Windows asks for the user name and password to connect to the first PC.

In an event logger on the first PC I see a lot of messages "Unknown user name or bad password" for the account from the second PC - this second PC tries to log in into the first PC.

Now is the question: If I have to have same accounts with same passwords over all my computers, what is the advantage of the homegroups? I understood it so, that I do not need to carry on passwords, accounts and the rest stuff. And exactly this doesn't work....



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09 Jan 2010   #2
zigzag3143

Win 8 Release candidate 8400
 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by alexbu View Post
Hello

Have a question about the homegroup - about accounts and passwords.

I have two PCs here, both have same accounts and same passwords. The second PC has an extra user account which doesn't exists on the first PC. The first PC is logged in with an account, existing on both PCs, the second one - with account, existing on this PC only.

I create the homegroup on the first PC with everything by default (share private folders without Documents). In "Advanced shared settings" i have "password protected sharing" on and in "Homegroup connections" - "allow windows to manage homegroup connections" enabled. I add an additional folder to a homegroup sharing with an "everyone read" access (I changed also the permissions for this folder by adding "everyone" read access)

Now I connect the second PC to this homegroup (giving a password). Also all sharings are by default (but now without an additional folder)

But now is a problem. The first PC (where a homegroup was created) can easly browse the homegroup sharings on the second PC. As I told above, I do this from an account, which exists on the second PC too (same name, same password). But the second PC cannot open that extra folder homegroup sharing - Windows asks for the user name and password to connect to the first PC.

In an event logger on the first PC I see a lot of messages "Unknown user name or bad password" for the account from the second PC - this second PC tries to log in into the first PC.

Now is the question: If I have to have same accounts with same passwords over all my computers, what is the advantage of the homegroups? I understood it so, that I do not need to carry on passwords, accounts and the rest stuff. And exactly this doesn't work....

Hi alex and welcome

My apologies, I have read this three times and I think you just want to be able to log onto all the pc's without a user name and password correct?

If that is the case you can do it easily. create a new network using the workgroup model and not the homegroup. Work group uses a different protocol and doesnt need a password.

Let us know if you need help

Ken J+
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09 Jan 2010   #3
alexbu

Windows 7 x64 Ultimate
 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by zigzag3143 View Post
My apologies, I have read this three times and I think you just want to be able to log onto all the pc's without a user name and password correct?

If that is the case you can do it easily. create a new network using the workgroup model and not the homegroup. Work group uses a different protocol and doesnt need a password.
Hi, thanks.

This is from a help
Quote:
Should I manage my home network connections manually or use Windows to do it automatically?


You should let Windows manage your home network connections because it's the easiest and best way to share files and printers.
But if you've previously set up customized sharing permissions on your network following the procedures in Windows XP or Windows Vista and you want to maintain those permissions when using a homegroup, you can choose to manage network connections yourself. If you choose this option, you'll need to use your user account and password when accessing other computers.
I understood it so, that Windows manages itself the 'different accounts/passwords on different PCs.' I needed to make only the homegroup here and there and mark folders, which I want to share. And then the files will be accessible over the network.

Or do I need to create on every PC the same accounts, having the same passwords? If it's like that, than I do not understand the advantage of the homegroups. Because such setup I have at the moment - I have one user account over all my PCs and everywhere the one has a same password (actually, this is described in a help above)

Edit: I have to note, that both PCs are added to the homegroup. The only problem, that I cannot open any on the first pc 'homegrouped' folder from the second one...
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.

09 Jan 2010   #4
patwhatsthat

Windows 7 Ultimate 64bit
 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by alexbu View Post
Hello

But now is a problem. The first PC (where a homegroup was created) can easly browse the homegroup sharings on the second PC. As I told above, I do this from an account, which exists on the second PC too (same name, same password). But the second PC cannot open that extra folder homegroup sharing - Windows asks for the user name and password to connect to the first PC.

In an event logger on the first PC I see a lot of messages "Unknown user name or bad password" for the account from the second PC - this second PC tries to log in into the first PC.

Now is the question: If I have to have same accounts with same passwords over all my computers, what is the advantage of the homegroups? I understood it so, that I do not need to carry on passwords, accounts and the rest stuff. And exactly this doesn't work....
As you've already discovered, having common usernames and passwords on your machines will resolve this issue. However, if you can successfully log on to the other machine, after completing the prompt for username and password and check the box to remember credentials this will often too, resolve the issue. But sometimes after multiple reboots of both machines it seems that these credentials are lost or forgotten. Don't ask me, I don't know why.
As far as your very succint question "what's the advantage of homegroups?" I'm personally still waiting for the definitive answer to that. Ken's admonition of "HomeGroups at their best are bad" still rings in my ears.
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10 Jan 2010   #5
alexbu

Windows 7 x64 Ultimate
 
 

well, after many hours of trying and testing (involving the third PC) I can say, that having same accounts over the PCs is a must (or 'Turn off the password protected sharing', but this doesn't help always). I used even Microsoft Network Monitor to watch a traffic - they use the usual SMB2 protocol. There is no any 'silver bullet' behind.


So, for me, the single advantage is that these homegroup sharing are appearing under 'Homegroup' entry in Explorer. It is useful for someone, who has no clue about Windows Network (don't get me wrong, I mean with that not everyone must understand, how this stuff works) and has no idea how
My System SpecsSystem Spec
10 Jan 2010   #6
chev65

Windows 7 Ult, Windows 8.1 Pro,
 
 

Until some of you guys try setting up a Homegroup with a bunch of different machines you can't really know or understand all the benifits that Homegroups has going for it. It's by far the most well designed and functional networking system ever devised and I have absolutely no doubts or reservations about this what so ever.

In every single case I have found that the problems with Homegroups are mostly user related in some way. That includes the installation of certain AV software which cripples Homegroups. That type of stuff can only be blamed on the user for not testing Homegroup functionality before the AV was installed. Other times it's people setting up Homegroup when there are different Op systems involved which clearly does not work and is not supposed to work. Other problems relate to outdated routers and drivers. None of which can be directly blamed on Windows 7.

I even took pictures of my old P4 1.7 machine while setting it up. Right before I got to the desktop I was offered a password prompt to join my Homegroup, there only needs to be one other Homegroup machine running for this to occur. I entered the password and Homegroups was set up and fully functional with no futher user input on my part before I ever even got to the Desktop. How can it get any easier than that?

This has occured in every single wired connection I have set up. Wireless was a bit trickier but not difficult at all for me and works perfectly once it was set up.

I'm pretty sure that most of the problems associated with Homegroup has more to do with outdated hardware,user mistakes and the learning curve. Not one problem can be blamed on the Op system itself which is flawless in my opinion.
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10 Jan 2010   #7
alexbu

Windows 7 x64 Ultimate
 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by chev65 View Post
Until some of you guys try setting up a Homegroup with a bunch of different machines you can't really know or understand all the benifits that Homegroups has going for it. It's by far the most well designed and functional networking system ever devised and I have absolutely no doubts or reservations about this what so ever.
Example:
two Windows 7, named PC1 and PC2. PC1 has a user USER1 with a password PASS1 (it's important - i do not have any accounts without passwords, even the eight year old daugther has a one ), PC2 has USER2 with PASS2. USER1 on PC1 creates a homegroup with password PASSHOME and allowes to share his pictures, music and so on. USER2 on PC2 joins into this homegroup (using PASSHOME as a password) and shares his pictures, music, etc.

So, USER1 on PC1 sees under the homegroup (in Explorer) the shares from USER2 on PC2, and vice versa, USER2 on PC2 sees under the homegroup the shares from USER1 on PC1. But these shares are not openable. I can click them, but nothing is happend. I made an additional experiment and added a folder on PC1 to the homegroup sharing with read access to everyone. USER2 on PC2 sees this folder under the homegroup for USER1 (Explorer) but cannot open it. But! In this case Windows asks after sometime for the username and password. I type USER1 and PASS1 (remember, the one from PC1) and than this folder is just opened.

In my understanding, the homegroup feature takes care about this user/password story. At least, in a help i found nothing about that users should avoid any accounts, having passwords.

Both PCs have 'Allow Windows to manage homegroup connections' and 'Turn on password protected sharing'. Both PC are in 'Home network'. One has installed Microsoft Security Essential. No any additional firewall is installed, no any tweaks were applied.
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10 Jan 2010   #8
chev65

Windows 7 Ult, Windows 8.1 Pro,
 
 

Yes using passwords makes this all much harder to accomplish no doubt. You couldnt pay me to use log in passwords but in some situations it's required.

But, if you check under Work and Home Advanced Sharing settings you can usually toggle the password protected sharing option both ON and OFF. Toggle between the two and see the difference. The On position can make it so you don't need to use those passwords to share.

You can also put a check mark in the password prompt if you don't want to have to enter the password everytime.


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Homegroup requires same accounts?-password-protected-sharing-off.jpg  
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