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Windows 7: "Ethernet" Connection Drop

20 May 2009   #151
sexytool

Windows 7 dual with XP SP2 ((Highly Custom))
 
 

EDIT: That was an edit not a repost =/ how the hell did that end up as a double post :S



I'm over 5 kilometers away from my exchange.


My System SpecsSystem Spec
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20 May 2009   #152
johngalt

 

Dunno - fixed.
My System SpecsSystem Spec
20 May 2009   #153
Digger

XP/win7 x86 build 7127
 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by sexytool View Post
That's the page i had open when i was writing my last post :P
Re-read my post. I never called those 'tweaks' those are features.

Tweak 7 modifies registry values for better optimised speeds.
Drivers modify registry valules for better optimised speeds.

See the similarity?

Tweak 7 offers you the option to reset your values back to default.
Your drivers, don't.
Un-installing your drivers, will not reset your settings back to default.

So the ONLY way to get windows 7 back to DEFAULT settings, is tweak 7.

I'm not telling you to "Not add tweak 7" i'm telling you Tweak 7 will fix the issue your drivers caused in the first place.

The problem originates in SVCHost coding.

Drivers dont modify, the settings are already there in registry, it just makes it more easily accessible to someone who doesnt know there way thru registry and are lucky enough to find them via device manager adapter/driver/ properties. Why do you think all the fuss was about back in win98 days and ppl were switching from dialup to broadband but not getting the desired/advertised speeds from a cable modem? Um, the RcvWin wasnt optomized back then for any broadband connection. When you installed your 100/10 card's drivers, that didnt change any registry "connection" value settings. You had to manually go in registry and change it and a few other values yourself.


what do you think you can do there (shown in john's image) those are all values that are entered in the registery, therefore technically registry "tweaks", the driver itself is NOT a TWEAK aka registry value entry. It has recommended default values by MS. How do you think they begin to write a driver for an OS they know nothing about, one that has changed somewhat drastically in nature in areas.

Like i stated earlier, I hadnt made any tweaks at all, only on network. The only tweak or reg value that was changed, not by any program, was the duplex from auto negotiation to 100 full. I didnt optomize anything, or tear into the registry manually or load up TCPZ and change any limits... which are all registry values fyi. Which when i do them myself, i know WHAT i changed, WHERE i changed it, AND WHAT value it was beforehand. Instead of letting some other user who created a beta program for a beta OS go calculating my registry entry values.
My System SpecsSystem Spec
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20 May 2009   #154
johngalt

 

Sorry, Digger, but I have personally seen drivers modifying both existing reg entries as well as creating new reg entries for settings on various things - to go back to Win 2000 and XP, Conexant v.90 modem drivers would physically alter the FIFO settings for the COM port being used by the modem to allow for full uses of the port, allowing settings up to 115200 baud, which were not normally set without the drivers being installed....
My System SpecsSystem Spec
20 May 2009   #155
Digger

XP/win7 x86 build 7127
 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by johngalt View Post
Sorry, Digger, but I have personally seen drivers modifying both existing reg entries as well as creating new reg entries for settings on various things - to go back to Win 2000 and XP, Conexant v.90 modem drivers would physically alter the FIFO settings for the COM port being used by the modem to allow for full uses of the port, allowing settings up to 115200 baud, which were not normally set without the drivers being installed....
exactly john, see my last post about win98 days, you are just reversing what i said in my example... instead of a nic card on old OS, you are talking old card on a newer OS. That i can totally understand why it would be the way it was. You would have to manually go in and edit those values, for sure, i understand that, makes complete sense. But i would say that would BE THE exception to the rule. Of course i knew if someone found it, well... ... :P lol
My System SpecsSystem Spec
20 May 2009   #156
sexytool

Windows 7 dual with XP SP2 ((Highly Custom))
 
 

And you would be wrong. I've seen my old intel card do it, i've seen realteck 8139 cards do it - And they were using the WINDOWS DRIVER!

There's hundreds, litterally hundreds of examples of driver installations changing registry values - wether by intention or by mistake!

You *cannot* know what has changed in your registry in the stages before and after NIC driver installation, so don't even pretend to know, that's just arrogance.

On the other hand, i've not only managed to replicated the "network dropout bug" by a tracable process.
BUT i've also managed to FIX it once it's been bad to the stage of dropping out twice in 1/2 an hour!

Yes Tweak 7 is a beta peice of software. SO WHAT? You want a fix, i'm offering it.
Quit with the arrogance already, create a restore point if you makes you feel any better, but JUST DO IT MAN.
My System SpecsSystem Spec
20 May 2009   #157
johngalt

 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by Digger View Post
exactly john, see my last post about win98 days, you are just reversing what i said in my example... instead of a nic card on old OS, you are talking old card on a newer OS. That i can totally understand why it would be the way it was. You would have to manually go in and edit those values, for sure, i understand that, makes complete sense. But i would say that would BE THE exception to the rule. Of course i knew if someone found it, well... ... :P lol
Not so sure about that either.

A more 'modern' example:

Show Us Your WEI

Same HD but different SATA controllers resulted in different aspects of the controller not being able to be 'edited' thus resulting in a massive HD WEI score breakdown in the earlier Betas.

My nForce controller, for example, had settings in there that other controllers did not - I seriously doubt that these were generic settings that were already in Windows 7 - that is the whole point of an OEM driver - it makes adjustments (using both files and settings) to how the hardware interacts with the OS - or, rather, how the OS is able to make use of the hardware.

Granted, there are some generic settings that will probably be common to all hardware types - for example, for modems, one setting common to all modems will be which COM port it is using, and one setting common to all HDs would be a S.M.A.R.T. enabled / disabled switch. However, my post above shows that my nForce controllers had a whole slew of (important) features not available to folks using an Intel controller....

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by sexytool View Post
And you would be wrong. I've seen my old intel card do it, i've seen realteck 8139 cards do it - And they were using the WINDOWS DRIVER!

There's hundreds, litterally hundreds of examples of driver installations changing registry values - wether by intention or by mistake!

You *cannot* know what has changed in your registry in the stages before and after NIC driver installation, so don't even pretend to know, that's just arrogance.

On the other hand, i've not only managed to replicated the "network dropout bug" by a tracable process.
BUT i've also managed to FIX it once it's been bad to the stage of dropping out twice in 1/2 an hour!

Yes Tweak 7 is a beta peice of software. SO WHAT? You want a fix, i'm offering it.
Quit with the arrogance already, create a restore point if you makes you feel any better, but JUST DO IT MAN.
No offense, but you can be a lot more calm about it and avoid using phrases that are inciting like "you're wrong" and especially "that's just arrogance"....

Please keep this civil, even if someone else is wrong....
My System SpecsSystem Spec
20 May 2009   #158
Digger

XP/win7 x86 build 7127
 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by johngalt View Post
Not so sure about that either.

A more 'modern' example:

Show Us Your WEI

Same HD but different SATA controllers resulted in different aspects of the controller not being able to be 'edited' thus resulting in a massive HD WEI score breakdown in the earlier Betas.

My nForce controller, for example, had settings in there that other controllers did not - I seriously doubt that these were generic settings that were already in Windows 7 - that is the whole point of an OEM driver - it makes adjustments (using both files and settings) to how the hardware interacts with the OS - or, rather, how the OS is able to make use of the hardware.

Granted, there are some generic settings that will probably be common to all hardware types - for example, for modems, one setting common to all modems will be which COM port it is using, and one setting common to all HDs would be a S.M.A.R.T. enabled / disabled switch. However, my post above shows that my nForce controllers had a whole slew of (important) features not available to folks using an Intel controller....



No offense, but you can be a lot more calm about it and avoid using phrases that are inciting like "you're wrong" and especially "that's just arrogance"....

Please keep this civil, even if someone else is wrong....
yes john, but could that also just be that the version of the driver was just "unlocking" the registry settings, as far as connection goes, like RcvWin, duplex, preamble and a few other values are the "W7 default" you would be speaking of. now things like Tx and Rx and other advanced things, depending on driver version and manufacturer for that matter, are then made available by the addition of the new improved driver unlocking the "advanced tweaking features". Thus back to topic, I didnt have, therefore i couldnt even change. And if the driver i have installed wont recognize a value that some other app enters, what use would it make of it? makes me think if then statements.


As for setting back to default, ST, I told ya, i am gonna run tests in the morn, if i ever make it to bed. I want and need a control basis for this ethernet as i did for the wireless. Then i will and can go from there... sorry, its been my nature and habits to have that kind of problem solving structure. Less mistakes and assumptions can be made that way.
My System SpecsSystem Spec
20 May 2009   #159
sexytool

Windows 7 dual with XP SP2 ((Highly Custom))
 
 

Understood. Sorry Digger, i'm only trying to go by the hard facts and leave you with a favourable result.

To have you throw the hard facts straight out the window based on assumptions and opinion is just exceedingly frustrating.

I've replicated the bug. I've spotted the cause of - windows registry and it's interaction with SVCHost.exe.
I've spotted a process that has a very high chance of fixing the problem and it has NO risk whatsoever.

What is stopping you from trying it? You have absolutely nothing to lose and alot to gain.

EDIT: Just saw your latest post. Fair enough. You simply came accross as "Will not" and "refuse to" try Tweak 7's reset to default process - I didn't know you just wanted to get your own testing done first.
My System SpecsSystem Spec
20 May 2009   #160
Digger

XP/win7 x86 build 7127
 
 

"the hard facts" to me would be for you to show me your 7000 reg compared to 7100 reg pre Tweak7 tweaks, with Tweak 7 tweaks, and after tweak7 reset default. Even if it does fix it ST, i want to KNOW WHY. I am not one to fix and forget it, not knowing how or why something did what it was doing. I dont gain any knowledge that-a-way. This is the reason for base tests, or a controlled test. and for that matter multiple tests.
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