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Windows 7: Microsoft, Adobe Deepen Security Ties

06 Aug 2010   #11
bobtran

Windows 7 Ultimate x64
 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by PhreePhly View Post
Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by Mellon Head View Post
Maybe someone important at Microsoft can talk to someone important at Adobe, and get it through his or her thick head that 64 bit computing really does exist, and it would be really nice if Adobe would embrace current technology, rather than trotting out stuff that supports a software model from 5 years ago. Maybe they'll also notice that there's been a couple of new versions of Windows since XP.

Oh wait, I was dreaming again. I thought I heard that Acrobat Standard went below $350. It sucks to live in a dream world and then have to wake up from time to time...
You realize that Silverlight isn't 64-bit either, right? As much as i like MS and their products, they are also guilty of being late to the 64-bit dance. While Office 2010 has a 64-bit version, if you have any 32-bit add-ons, they will not work in 64-bit.

While many here love their 64-bit, the majority of installs out there are still 32-bit. I don't think a pure 64-bit world is anywhere close. There is still no official word that Win 8 will be 64-bit only. There may still be a 32-bit version of that.
Tragically true, however, there really isn't any excuse to continue this x86 only trend that Adobe is the poster child of either. While I would agree that the majority of upgrades are x86 due to hardware constraints, more and more laptops and desktops are being sold with x64 all the time and not x86 unless people are purchasing less than 3gb ram on their new pc's. Win7 x64 seems to be the default if ram is GE 3gb, check it out for yourself if you doubt it.

Whats holding the x64 environment back is lack of vendor support for x64 products (Adobe is a major contributor to this lack) and this is slowly changing. It's not just for geeks anymore. Furthermore I have not found any lack in my x64 system which I have been running since Vista SP1. Most add ons that I use can be found in a x64 version if you only take the time to look. They may be beta but they are available and they do work for the most part.

I would argue that the vast majority of people do not run any software that would force the choice of x86, its just what their pc's came installed with and they see no reason to change it which I can understand...if it works to mess with it. It is really on the part of the OEM's to change this trend which, as I pointed out above, they are slowly doing.


My System SpecsSystem Spec
.
06 Aug 2010   #12
ken9122

Win7 x64 Ultimate SP1
 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by bobtran View Post
Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by PhreePhly View Post
Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by Mellon Head View Post
Maybe someone important at Microsoft can talk to someone important at Adobe, and get it through his or her thick head that 64 bit computing really does exist, and it would be really nice if Adobe would embrace current technology, rather than trotting out stuff that supports a software model from 5 years ago. Maybe they'll also notice that there's been a couple of new versions of Windows since XP.

Oh wait, I was dreaming again. I thought I heard that Acrobat Standard went below $350. It sucks to live in a dream world and then have to wake up from time to time...
You realize that Silverlight isn't 64-bit either, right? As much as i like MS and their products, they are also guilty of being late to the 64-bit dance. While Office 2010 has a 64-bit version, if you have any 32-bit add-ons, they will not work in 64-bit.

While many here love their 64-bit, the majority of installs out there are still 32-bit. I don't think a pure 64-bit world is anywhere close. There is still no official word that Win 8 will be 64-bit only. There may still be a 32-bit version of that.
Tragically true, however, there really isn't any excuse to continue this x86 only trend that Adobe is the poster child of either. While I would agree that the majority of upgrades are x86 due to hardware constraints, more and more laptops and desktops are being sold with x64 all the time and not x86 unless people are purchasing less than 3gb ram on their new pc's. Win7 x64 seems to be the default if ram is GE 3gb, check it out for yourself if you doubt it.

Whats holding the x64 environment back is lack of vendor support for x64 products (Adobe is a major contributor to this lack) and this is slowly changing. It's not just for geeks anymore. Furthermore I have not found any lack in my x64 system which I have been running since Vista SP1. Most add ons that I use can be found in a x64 version if you only take the time to look. They may be beta but they are available and they do work for the most part.

I would argue that the vast majority of people do not run any software that would force the choice of x86, its just what their pc's came installed with and they see no reason to change it which I can understand...if it works to mess with it. It is really on the part of the OEM's to change this trend which, as I pointed out above, they are slowly doing.
+1
My System SpecsSystem Spec
06 Aug 2010   #13
PhreePhly

Windows 7 x64 (RTM via MSDN)
 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by bobtran View Post
Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by PhreePhly View Post
Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by Mellon Head View Post
Maybe someone important at Microsoft can talk to someone important at Adobe, and get it through his or her thick head that 64 bit computing really does exist, and it would be really nice if Adobe would embrace current technology, rather than trotting out stuff that supports a software model from 5 years ago. Maybe they'll also notice that there's been a couple of new versions of Windows since XP.

Oh wait, I was dreaming again. I thought I heard that Acrobat Standard went below $350. It sucks to live in a dream world and then have to wake up from time to time...
You realize that Silverlight isn't 64-bit either, right? As much as i like MS and their products, they are also guilty of being late to the 64-bit dance. While Office 2010 has a 64-bit version, if you have any 32-bit add-ons, they will not work in 64-bit.

While many here love their 64-bit, the majority of installs out there are still 32-bit. I don't think a pure 64-bit world is anywhere close. There is still no official word that Win 8 will be 64-bit only. There may still be a 32-bit version of that.
Tragically true, however, there really isn't any excuse to continue this x86 only trend that Adobe is the poster child of either. While I would agree that the majority of upgrades are x86 due to hardware constraints, more and more laptops and desktops are being sold with x64 all the time and not x86 unless people are purchasing less than 3gb ram on their new pc's. Win7 x64 seems to be the default if ram is GE 3gb, check it out for yourself if you doubt it.

Whats holding the x64 environment back is lack of vendor support for x64 products (Adobe is a major contributor to this lack) and this is slowly changing. It's not just for geeks anymore. Furthermore I have not found any lack in my x64 system which I have been running since Vista SP1. Most add ons that I use can be found in a x64 version if you only take the time to look. They may be beta but they are available and they do work for the most part.

I would argue that the vast majority of people do not run any software that would force the choice of x86, its just what their pc's came installed with and they see no reason to change it which I can understand...if it works to mess with it. It is really on the part of the OEM's to change this trend which, as I pointed out above, they are slowly doing.
While I am a very happy x64 user, I think you are forgetting about a huge portion of the Windows using world. As has been noted many times, most enterprises are still on XP and won't be moving to Win 7 until next year at the earliest. Also, moving from one OS to the next is already a huge move, adding the complications of changing architecture from x86 to x64 will slow that down even more. Most enterprise organizations has tons of custom apps ususally written by IT folks that are no longer with the company. I can tell you, that a very large portion of those apps never had the concept of x64 included in their coding. Every single one of those apps has to be tested against a x64 environment. That is time consuming and frankly, when pennies are being counted, deemed a waste of time. By sticking to x86, they can have a greater level of confidence that the apps will work.

I know that our move to Office 2010 is limited to only the 32-bit version. Due to a number of excel add-ons our staff uses, that are not 64-bit compatible, the x64 release of Office 2010 has been scrapped. Given that we are upgrading from Office 2003, it's probably a pretty safe bet that we will not be upgrading again for another 2 generations. That means another 5 to 6 years with a major 32-bit app. We are not alone in that.

Please don't think I am defending Adobe in all this. I'm not, and I am a huge proponent to moving forward in a x64 world. But the realities are very different, and frankly, Adobe isn't the problem. The tons of custom, poorly coded, but hugely useful apps generated by IT organizations the world over are what's keeping the movement forward at this slow pace.
My System SpecsSystem Spec
.

06 Aug 2010   #14
bobtran

Windows 7 Ultimate x64
 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by PhreePhly View Post
Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by bobtran View Post
Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by PhreePhly View Post

You realize that Silverlight isn't 64-bit either, right? As much as i like MS and their products, they are also guilty of being late to the 64-bit dance. While Office 2010 has a 64-bit version, if you have any 32-bit add-ons, they will not work in 64-bit.

While many here love their 64-bit, the majority of installs out there are still 32-bit. I don't think a pure 64-bit world is anywhere close. There is still no official word that Win 8 will be 64-bit only. There may still be a 32-bit version of that.
Tragically true, however, there really isn't any excuse to continue this x86 only trend that Adobe is the poster child of either. While I would agree that the majority of upgrades are x86 due to hardware constraints, more and more laptops and desktops are being sold with x64 all the time and not x86 unless people are purchasing less than 3gb ram on their new pc's. Win7 x64 seems to be the default if ram is GE 3gb, check it out for yourself if you doubt it.

Whats holding the x64 environment back is lack of vendor support for x64 products (Adobe is a major contributor to this lack) and this is slowly changing. It's not just for geeks anymore. Furthermore I have not found any lack in my x64 system which I have been running since Vista SP1. Most add ons that I use can be found in a x64 version if you only take the time to look. They may be beta but they are available and they do work for the most part.

I would argue that the vast majority of people do not run any software that would force the choice of x86, its just what their pc's came installed with and they see no reason to change it which I can understand...if it works to mess with it. It is really on the part of the OEM's to change this trend which, as I pointed out above, they are slowly doing.
While I am a very happy x64 user, I think you are forgetting about a huge portion of the Windows using world. As has been noted many times, most enterprises are still on XP and won't be moving to Win 7 until next year at the earliest. Also, moving from one OS to the next is already a huge move, adding the complications of changing architecture from x86 to x64 will slow that down even more. Most enterprise organizations has tons of custom apps ususally written by IT folks that are no longer with the company. I can tell you, that a very large portion of those apps never had the concept of x64 included in their coding. Every single one of those apps has to be tested against a x64 environment. That is time consuming and frankly, when pennies are being counted, deemed a waste of time. By sticking to x86, they can have a greater level of confidence that the apps will work.

I know that our move to Office 2010 is limited to only the 32-bit version. Due to a number of excel add-ons our staff uses, that are not 64-bit compatible, the x64 release of Office 2010 has been scrapped. Given that we are upgrading from Office 2003, it's probably a pretty safe bet that we will not be upgrading again for another 2 generations. That means another 5 to 6 years with a major 32-bit app. We are not alone in that.

Please don't think I am defending Adobe in all this. I'm not, and I am a huge proponent to moving forward in a x64 world. But the realities are very different, and frankly, Adobe isn't the problem. The tons of custom, poorly coded, but hugely useful apps generated by IT organizations the world over are what's keeping the movement forward at this slow pace.
While I agree with most of what you say you seem to forget that most x86 apps (even in-house ones)will still run on the x64 by way of WOW so this is really not the stopper that you are foreseeing. Further, I don't count any XP installation that currently runs in a corporate/government environment as vast numbers of companies and dare I say most government offices will not upgrade/replace a working PC unless/until there is no other path/way. Many are still running Win2k despite no support and I don't imagine that XP will be any different. Remember that servers are now basically x64 only even from Microsoft and that compatibility with the computing environment is the real driver as to choice of OS. If software vendors will not move forward the customer will move on.

I disagree about Adobe however, They have made far too many promises about x64 flash (as well as their other products) and can't even pull that rabbit out of their hat (they recently pulled the plug on Linux x64 flash that was already developed). I don't think that they believe that x64 is really going to catch on and as with other monopoly companies they believe that what is good for them is good for the computing world in general. As such they will just have to suffer through the customer losses before they GET IT and hopefully they will get it before they become irrelevant. Only time will tell.
My System SpecsSystem Spec
07 Aug 2010   #15
PhreePhly

Windows 7 x64 (RTM via MSDN)
 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by bobtran View Post
Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by PhreePhly View Post
Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by bobtran View Post

Tragically true, however, there really isn't any excuse to continue this x86 only trend that Adobe is the poster child of either. While I would agree that the majority of upgrades are x86 due to hardware constraints, more and more laptops and desktops are being sold with x64 all the time and not x86 unless people are purchasing less than 3gb ram on their new pc's. Win7 x64 seems to be the default if ram is GE 3gb, check it out for yourself if you doubt it.

Whats holding the x64 environment back is lack of vendor support for x64 products (Adobe is a major contributor to this lack) and this is slowly changing. It's not just for geeks anymore. Furthermore I have not found any lack in my x64 system which I have been running since Vista SP1. Most add ons that I use can be found in a x64 version if you only take the time to look. They may be beta but they are available and they do work for the most part.

I would argue that the vast majority of people do not run any software that would force the choice of x86, its just what their pc's came installed with and they see no reason to change it which I can understand...if it works to mess with it. It is really on the part of the OEM's to change this trend which, as I pointed out above, they are slowly doing.
While I am a very happy x64 user, I think you are forgetting about a huge portion of the Windows using world. As has been noted many times, most enterprises are still on XP and won't be moving to Win 7 until next year at the earliest. Also, moving from one OS to the next is already a huge move, adding the complications of changing architecture from x86 to x64 will slow that down even more. Most enterprise organizations has tons of custom apps ususally written by IT folks that are no longer with the company. I can tell you, that a very large portion of those apps never had the concept of x64 included in their coding. Every single one of those apps has to be tested against a x64 environment. That is time consuming and frankly, when pennies are being counted, deemed a waste of time. By sticking to x86, they can have a greater level of confidence that the apps will work.

I know that our move to Office 2010 is limited to only the 32-bit version. Due to a number of excel add-ons our staff uses, that are not 64-bit compatible, the x64 release of Office 2010 has been scrapped. Given that we are upgrading from Office 2003, it's probably a pretty safe bet that we will not be upgrading again for another 2 generations. That means another 5 to 6 years with a major 32-bit app. We are not alone in that.

Please don't think I am defending Adobe in all this. I'm not, and I am a huge proponent to moving forward in a x64 world. But the realities are very different, and frankly, Adobe isn't the problem. The tons of custom, poorly coded, but hugely useful apps generated by IT organizations the world over are what's keeping the movement forward at this slow pace.
While I agree with most of what you say you seem to forget that most x86 apps (even in-house ones)will still run on the x64 by way of WOW so this is really not the stopper that you are foreseeing. Further, I don't count any XP installation that currently runs in a corporate/government environment as vast numbers of companies and dare I say most government offices will not upgrade/replace a working PC unless/until there is no other path/way. Many are still running Win2k despite no support and I don't imagine that XP will be any different. Remember that servers are now basically x64 only even from Microsoft and that compatibility with the computing environment is the real driver as to choice of OS. If software vendors will not move forward the customer will move on.
Actually, we're finding many of the apps still have 16-bit VB elements. These break in x64. Unfortunately, VB 6 was a staple of the IT quick fix jack of all trade app and this breaks in x64.
My System SpecsSystem Spec
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