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Windows 7: New Bill Would Require U.S. ISPs to Block Pirate Sites

27 Sep 2010   #121
OneSerious

MS Windows 7 Home Premium 64-bit
 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by BCXtreme View Post
I also feel the need to point out that there is a difference between what is illegal and what is wrong. While illegal things are often wrong, and vice versa, this is not always true. Piracy is stealing, taking something that doesn't belong to you, and thus it is morally wrong. Lending someone a CD is not stealing, and while it may be illegal, it is not morally wrong. Personally, any law that says you are not allowed to lend/give your property to another is condoning extortion. If you loan a friend a CD, he can listen to it and if he likes it, he will/should buy his own copy. If you CAN'T loan him the CD, he has to buy it just to find out if he likes it. Or else he doesn't buy it at all and just forgets about it. Either way, by making loans illegal, you've turned a win/win situation into either a win/lose or a lose/lose situation.
So by that point of view you can have your cake and eat it? Like I said, I don't think you can have it both ways. If you choose to obey the rule then do so. Don't pick and choose the parts that suite you.


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27 Sep 2010   #122
24c

Win7 x64 Ult
 
 

Great thread - always interests me the way people think and then defend their thoughts.

BCXtreme - good going with the wrong/illegal concept, I hand't looked at it that way.

In the words of Harry Chapin:

sometimes words can serve you well
and sometimes words can go to hell
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27 Sep 2010   #123
pparks1

Windows 7 Ultimate x64
 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by madtownidiot View Post
I'm inclined to believe that when you buy something, it's yours to do whatever you want with it, but that in the case of digital media and software, people should buy their own copy if they want to use it.
but in the case of software, you don't "OWN" it....you have purchased a license granting you certain rights to "use" it.
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27 Sep 2010   #124
Bootz

Vista Business x64
 
 

[QUOTE=pparks1;981888]
Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by madtownidiot View Post
I'm inclined to believe that when you buy something, it's yours to do whatever you want with it, but that in the case of digital media and software, people should buy their own copy if they want to use it./quote] but in the case of software, you don't "OWN" it....you have purchased a license granting you certain rights to "use" it.
Exactly why pirating existes in the first place... being said that way, who wants to pay money TO HAVE THE RIGHT to listen to music they like.

I myself see an arguement for both sides though.
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27 Sep 2010   #125
BCXtreme

Windows 7 Home Premium x64
 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by kylehimself View Post
Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by BCXtreme View Post
I also feel the need to point out that there is a difference between what is illegal and what is wrong. While illegal things are often wrong, and vice versa, this is not always true. Piracy is stealing, taking something that doesn't belong to you, and thus it is morally wrong. Lending someone a CD is not stealing, and while it may be illegal, it is not morally wrong. Personally, any law that says you are not allowed to lend/give your property to another is condoning extortion. If you loan a friend a CD, he can listen to it and if he likes it, he will/should buy his own copy. If you CAN'T loan him the CD, he has to buy it just to find out if he likes it. Or else he doesn't buy it at all and just forgets about it. Either way, by making loans illegal, you've turned a win/win situation into either a win/lose or a lose/lose situation.
So by that point of view you can have your cake and eat it? Like I said, I don't think you can have it both ways. If you choose to obey the rule then do so. Don't pick and choose the parts that suite you.
It's not quite like that. It's not that I stand against piracy because my gov't has a law against it, and I'm just "obeying the rule". I stand against piracy because I believe it to be morally wrong, laws or not. I would stand against piracy even if the gov't legalized it. Lending media is not morally wrong, and therefore I do not stand against it.

In my opinion, the entire DMCA needs to be repealed and replaced with a system where intellectual property is handled just like physical property, without all of these additional complications. You shouldn't be able to restrict someone's legal use of a CD anymore that you can restrict someone's legal use of a stove, a cup, or anything else.
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27 Sep 2010   #126
OneSerious

MS Windows 7 Home Premium 64-bit
 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by BCXtreme View Post
It's not quite like that. It's not that I stand against piracy because my gov't has a law against it, and I'm just "obeying the rule". I stand against piracy because I believe it to be morally wrong, laws or not. I would stand against piracy even if the gov't legalized it. Lending media is not morally wrong, and therefore I do not stand against it.

In my opinion, the entire DMCA needs to be repealed and replaced with a system where intellectual property is handled just like physical property, without all of these additional complications. You shouldn't be able to restrict someone's legal use of a CD anymore that you can restrict someone's legal use of a stove, a cup, or anything else.
I think put like that, it's a fair point. I can accept that.
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27 Sep 2010   #127
Colonel Travis

Black Label 7 x64
 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by BCXtreme View Post

In my opinion, the entire DMCA needs to be repealed and replaced with a system where intellectual property is handled just like physical property, without all of these additional complications. You shouldn't be able to restrict someone's legal use of a CD anymore that you can restrict someone's legal use of a stove, a cup, or anything else.
Agree with you except this last point. If you give someone a stove or a cup or anything else physical in that sense, unless you have a duplicate, it means you outright surrender your ownership of it to them. If you copy music and, say, place it online, you still have your copy while thousands or millions of others can get it, too. Not only that, but a stove is built to do one thing, which is to cook food. Yes, you have gas, electric, glass, ceramic, whatever. And you've got different manufacturers. But unlike, for example, a song, no one constructs a stove that is unlike any other stove ever created in human history. What is the gas range equivalent of Lady Gaga?

Publishing people, movie people, song people - most of them are still clueless about how to adapt to digital, or they are reluctant, or both. At the same time, I think there needs to be a distinction between what they produce and what non-DR people produce. I don't have the golden answer, but I don't think it takes a genius to see how customer behavior has changed in the past 10 years. It's the producers who, for the most part, still live in the stone age, not the buyers.
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27 Sep 2010   #128
pparks1

Windows 7 Ultimate x64
 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by Bootz View Post
Exactly why pirating existes in the first place... being said that way, who wants to pay money TO HAVE THE RIGHT to listen to music they like.
I said with software you get a license to use the software. You don't have a license to use the music you downloaded. You actually own the music file in that case. It's a little different.

Taking your example further, why would I ever want to buy Digital music files period. They come in a specific bitrate and in a specific format. Given a choice, I buy the physical CD every single time and rip it down however I want.
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27 Sep 2010   #129
madtownidiot

 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by pparks1 View Post
Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by madtownidiot View Post
I'm inclined to believe that when you buy something, it's yours to do whatever you want with it, but that in the case of digital media and software, people should buy their own copy if they want to use it.
but in the case of software, you don't "OWN" it....you have purchased a license granting you certain rights to "use" it.
Actually yes, I believe that any time someone makes a non refundable purchase of anything, including software, as opposed to a rental contract with a predetermined expiration date, that constitutes ownership, and thus give the owner the right to do whatever they want with it, regardless of what ridiculous terms one must agree to in order to install it. Am I making copies and distributing them, NO.. but regardless of whether mr money grubbin bill likes it or not, it's my godd*amn hardware and I will decide what runs or doesn't run on it. PERIOD, Is that illegal? possibly.. is it wrong? not a f'n chance. With everything else on the planet, a purchaser has a right to change or alter a product in anyway they see fit, including deciding not to use the entire package. In my mind, its no different from jailbreaking an iPhone, and we all know just how far Mr Jobs got trying to sue people for that....I'm not saying I have done so, but I really pisses me off that anyone has the gall try to tell me they have the right to determine exactly I use something after I paid several hundred dollars for it, especially when nobody gets harmed in the process.
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27 Sep 2010   #130
Colonel Travis

Black Label 7 x64
 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by madtownidiot View Post
I'm not saying I have done so, but I really pisses me off that anyone has the gall try to tell me they have the right to determine exactly I use something after I paid several hundred dollars for it, especially when nobody gets harmed in the process.
Do your "rights" always supersede anyone else's? Why is it even a "right" to begin with? Who grants you this right? Someone makes something, therefore that gives you automatic grace to copy, redistribute, alter, etc. no matter what? Does your right to do anything ever have any limits? Do I have the right to adopt the madtownidiot's persona from this site and go all over the internet claiming I'm you, saying things you'd never say, that I'm doing things you'd never do? We (presumably) don't know one another, so to me you're just a digital representation on an internet forum. Why can't I just take it over and go nuts? Or vice versa?

Seriously, we're pretty much on the same page. Just wondering if boundaries are ever necessary.
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 New Bill Would Require U.S. ISPs to Block Pirate Sites




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