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Windows 7: Change to 'Bios' will make for PCs that boot in seconds

01 Oct 2010   #11
FliGi7

XP / Win7 x64 Pro
 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by madtownidiot View Post
Unless I'm sorely misinformed, EFI is a HDD partition. In my experience with MACs, which have been using EFI and the GUID partition table for years, UEFI makes it much more difficult to replace a HDD, as the EFI image for the target system has to written the the HDD prior to installation. When the EFI partition is lost or corrupted, the entire system is rendered unusable. In other words once this happens, people who only have one computer will be no longer be able to reinstall an operating system on their own if they don't have a cloned HDD, in the case of total HDD failure. On the other hand, it does make for a more efficient boot time, and a much more visually appealing BIOS menu.
I don't see how a system would be rendered unusable simply because a hard drive was not bootable. I would imagine you would at least still be able to boot from a cd which could format and re-image the drive.


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01 Oct 2010   #12
madtownidiot

 

The way EFI works is as an extension of BIOS. In EFI systems, there is still a BIOS that contains firmware for a bare minimum set of components like the HDD, integrated video & sound, LAN, and sometimes the optical drive & wireless, but all of the firmware for the rest of the motherboard, USB, and any PCI cards are stored in the EFI partition and loaded into memory before the OS can boot. If you lose the EFI partition and can't get a replacement from the manufacturer, there is no way to get the system working again
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01 Oct 2010   #13
FliGi7

XP / Win7 x64 Pro
 
 

If there is still a BIOS that contains firmware for a bare minimum set of components needed to boot, then why wouldn't it be able to boot?
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01 Oct 2010   #14
marsmimar

Microsoft Community Contributor Award Recipient

 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by madtownidiot View Post
Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by marsmimar View Post
Sorry for my ignorance/confusion, Dan. Are you saying a system image won't work and I'd need to keep an additional cloned HDD around the house in case the original crashes?
You would at the very least have to clone the EFI partition & use gParted or something similar to move it to the new HDD if you needed to replace a HDD. EFI will include a partition editor for setting up the HDD for the operating system, but my experience with EFI and MACs is that if the EFI partition becomes corrupted or accidentally erased, an OS (but not OS-X) can sometimes be installed using the DVD drive, but at the very least, none of the the hardware that isn't registered in CMOS will work, nor can it be enabled simply by and downloading and installing drivers. The other problem with EFI systems is that they can't be booted from USB unless it's a USB port that's integrated with the motherboard. It could be that MACs are deliberately designed that way, as Steve Jobs once said MACs will never be bootable from USB, but I think it's likely that he said that because there is no way to make it possible.
Really appreciate the added info. Thank you!
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01 Oct 2010   #15
Tepid

Win 7 Ultimate 32bit
 
 

With my limited experience of fixing Macbooks and others. I am not sure that madtownidiot entirely right. I have not messed with Mac's in a long time, but we always could take a PC laptop drive and drop it in a Mac and reload the system by popping in the disk and booting it, and installing it.

I am not as familiar with it as I would like, but, if the BIOS changes,
they will create a way to recover without issue. Weather it be part of the OS Install or whatnot.

however, this could change things. But let's face it. With PC's if there is a will, there will be a way.

Right now in development is a BartPE style Win7 project, that is not a part of Winbuilder.
It works, and is getting better. You will know it when you find it, if you go looking.
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01 Oct 2010   #16
madtownidiot

 

You might be able to get it to boot, if the optical drive controller was included, but without the EFI, none of the components that aren't managed by the original BIOS can be made to work. It might be that it's only true with macs, but what I foresee is computer manufacturers using EFI as a means to lock down computers to their original configuration, preventing users from being able to upgrade their system on their own or install a different operating system, and give them no choice but to use only a manufacturer approved service center for any maintenance or upgrades.
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01 Oct 2010   #17
FliGi7

XP / Win7 x64 Pro
 
 

Interesting. Thanks for the input. I'd like to see how this all pans out, if this is the case or not.
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01 Oct 2010   #18
Tepid

Win 7 Ultimate 32bit
 
 

Well I fully agree, that would suck, I would avoid buying one and recommend no else do so either.
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01 Oct 2010   #19
madtownidiot

 

I've seen a few macs recently, Every one of them required a system specific OS install disk that wouldn't work on any other model.
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01 Oct 2010   #20
Colonel Travis

Black Label 7 x64
 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by madtownidiot View Post
In other words once this happens, people who only have one computer will be no longer be able to reinstall an operating system on their own if they don't have a cloned HDD, in the case of total HDD failure.
Not true.
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 Change to 'Bios' will make for PCs that boot in seconds




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