Windows 7 Forums
Welcome to Windows 7 Forums. Our forum is dedicated to helping you find support and solutions for any problems regarding your Windows 7 PC be it Dell, HP, Acer, Asus or a custom build. We also provide an extensive Windows 7 tutorial section that covers a wide range of tips and tricks.


Windows 7: Microsoft slams OEM crapware

12 Oct 2010   #61
Layback Bear

Windows 10 Pro. 64/ version 1709
 
 

Most computer buyers don't come to web sits like ours and learn. If they did our membership would be in the millions. This tells me that most buyers don't even know what crapware is. As long as the market share of buyers are uninformed crapware will be there. I makes money. It might even keep the price down. IMHO most members here have probably removed the crapware or will soon because they have been informed. Most people who buy computers are not informed customers. Most people who buy new cars don't know it comes with ABS and don't care, it stops.


My System SpecsSystem Spec
.
12 Oct 2010   #62
Tepid

Win 7 Ultimate 32bit
 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by jimbo45 View Post
Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by Tepid View Post
The other problem is, not installing enough RAM.
what 99% of users do not realize is. Minimum requirements are to get a system to run stable, not well.
So yes, Vista will run with 512M of ram. But it won't run well. And these OEM's knew it, they just wanted to make a sale so they allowed it.
I also think that is why MS upped it to 1G for 7. Still that is not good enough.

It is the same with all PC games. The minimum is to make it run stable, the recommended is better, but you always want to try and have twice what the recommended is listed.
That is the sweet spot. But more is always best.
Hi there
Actually I disagree here -- Lack of RAM is NOT the main problem -- for what 90 - 95% of typical home users do on their computers (email, surf internet, some office type stuff, play music, watch dvd's etc) a modest machine (by todays standards) with 1GB of RAM is probably sufficient.

I agree more RAM is better if you want to run things like Virtual Machines and Photoshop --although you can use Photoshop on a 1GB RAM system without too much hassle if you aren't processing 100's of large photos-.

Even for gaming it's not normally shortage of RAM -- CPU processing power, decent graphic card / GPU and fast disks are usually more important.

Cheers
jimbo
We have seen it first hand. Take a Vista System that a student bought and trying to do what they need to do for school. Or a family that bought a system that start choking when they try accessing numerous apps, like web browsing and email and try to watch videos with anti virus and other background garbage apps like Itunes and there ISP's garbage speed boosters. Systems start to choke when they start getting used on a daily basis by people who try to do what they really want to do with them.

Now if you are talking about the very few out there that might check a site or 2 and do a little email, but don't try to use the system for what it is designed for, ok. But 99% of people don't do just those very minimal things.

My wife thinks she doesn't do that much, I put a low end system up for her and as soon as she tried doing scrapbooking software and printing and stuff, the system would choke. Oh yeah, Many web sites opened as well. So, there is a limit, and the largest majority of people will push a low end system past it's limit and be quite disappointed in the results not realizing they pushed past a certain limit that their system can't handle. Then they blame what? Windows.

You don't need 8G or 16G of ram, no. But you need at the minimum on any system of 2G.
And that all depends on the processor as well. Now days they have caught up, so a normal family system that gets used for more than one or 2 apps at a time does infact need minimum of 2 to 4G in todays systems. i would actually say Minimum should be 4G now.
This is the best spot for anyone who may wake up one day and decide they want to do more. Or they start seeing software they thing they might like and install it, then forget about while it sits in the background draining resources.

It's a balance of power that OEM's do not care about.

I don't sell systems with less than 2G, and try to talk people into minimum of 4G.
Even if they ask for the minimum, I would tell them no, go buy elsewhere. After explaining the reasons why.
My System SpecsSystem Spec
12 Oct 2010   #63
JMH

Win 7 Ultimate 64-bit. SP1.
 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by Tepid View Post
Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by jimbo45 View Post
Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by Tepid View Post
The other problem is, not installing enough RAM.
what 99% of users do not realize is. Minimum requirements are to get a system to run stable, not well.
So yes, Vista will run with 512M of ram. But it won't run well. And these OEM's knew it, they just wanted to make a sale so they allowed it.
I also think that is why MS upped it to 1G for 7. Still that is not good enough.

It is the same with all PC games. The minimum is to make it run stable, the recommended is better, but you always want to try and have twice what the recommended is listed.
That is the sweet spot. But more is always best.
Hi there
Actually I disagree here -- Lack of RAM is NOT the main problem -- for what 90 - 95% of typical home users do on their computers (email, surf internet, some office type stuff, play music, watch dvd's etc) a modest machine (by todays standards) with 1GB of RAM is probably sufficient.

I agree more RAM is better if you want to run things like Virtual Machines and Photoshop --although you can use Photoshop on a 1GB RAM system without too much hassle if you aren't processing 100's of large photos-.

Even for gaming it's not normally shortage of RAM -- CPU processing power, decent graphic card / GPU and fast disks are usually more important.

Cheers
jimbo
We have seen it first hand. Take a Vista System that a student bought and trying to do what they need to do for school. Or a family that bought a system that start choking when they try accessing numerous apps, like web browsing and email and try to watch videos with anti virus and other background garbage apps like Itunes and there ISP's garbage speed boosters. Systems start to choke when they start getting used on a daily basis by people who try to do what they really want to do with them.

Now if you are talking about the very few out there that might check a site or 2 and do a little email, but don't try to use the system for what it is designed for, ok. But 99% of people don't do just those very minimal things.

My wife thinks she doesn't do that much, I put a low end system up for her and as soon as she tried doing scrapbooking software and printing and stuff, the system would choke. Oh yeah, Many web sites opened as well. So, there is a limit, and the largest majority of people will push a low end system past it's limit and be quite disappointed in the results not realizing they pushed past a certain limit that their system can't handle. Then they blame what? Windows.

You don't need 8G or 16G of ram, no. But you need at the minimum on any system of 2G.
And that all depends on the processor as well. Now days they have caught up, so a normal family system that gets used for more than one or 2 apps at a time does infact need minimum of 2 to 4G in todays systems. i would actually say Minimum should be 4G now.
This is the best spot for anyone who may wake up one day and decide they want to do more. Or they start seeing software they thing they might like and install it, then forget about while it sits in the background draining resources.

It's a balance of power that OEM's do not care about.

I don't sell systems with less than 2G, and try to talk people into minimum of 4G.
Even if they ask for the minimum, I would tell them no, go buy elsewhere. After explaining the reasons why.

1, IMHO -A good idea.

2. Nice to note some business ethics here....Well done.
My System SpecsSystem Spec
.

12 Oct 2010   #64
LiquidSnak

W7 Professional x64
 
 

I totally agree, I haven't ever recommended less than 2GB of RAM since Vista.

I've had many a system come to me from a friend who will ask "why is my computer so slow? I can't find viruses." I'll look at their "gaming" system they bought and it will have a gig of ram.
My System SpecsSystem Spec
12 Oct 2010   #65
Lee

Win 7 Pro x64, VM Win XP, Win7 Pro Sandbox, Kubuntu 11
 
 

As a heavy user of Photoshop and Lightroom together along with working with RAW photos I can till you that 2 Gb just isn't going to cut it.

The problem is for some reason we geeks have a tendency to only see the short term effect of crapware. We know this because we can open "msconfig" and see what is happening to the system. We can see how this crapware is included in the services by clicking on "hide all Microsoft services." However, I think what we fail to see is that most of these people are somewhat happy with their system. And, we fail to see that they do us their machines for other things besides email and social get togethers. The gaming industries has been making "Billions" off of the average computer users. On line gaming has become a billion dollar industry, and that is not because of geeks and computer experts.

So in the end we geeks will just have to set on sites like the Seven Forums, and be ready to lend a helping hand. . .
My System SpecsSystem Spec
12 Oct 2010   #66
LiquidSnak

W7 Professional x64
 
 

Our life is a hard one, but a good one
My System SpecsSystem Spec
12 Oct 2010   #67
madtownidiot

 

ever seen what a dual xeon workstation with 96 GB of RAM can do with photoshop or premier pro?
My System SpecsSystem Spec
12 Oct 2010   #68
jeffseven

Windows 7 Professional 64 bit
 
 

I learned about ram minimums when I bought my first machine. I am a gamer and I had 128 megs of ram with a good ( by that days standard video card) 3dfx. Does that ring any bells? It would crash ocassionally when gaming or other stuff too but I never realized what was wrong until... I was doing our taxes with my wife and the system crashed while we were trying to send our file....EEEEKKK.. I ended up calling support and they suggest installing more ram. I maxed it out after a couple conversations with friends. It ran much better after that.
NOW I either build my own or buy from a smaller company that doesn't install all that crapware.
Life is much better now as I know how to uninstall and all that stuff mentioned earlier in this thread.

I enjoy all the posts, keep writing.

Jeff
My System SpecsSystem Spec
14 Oct 2010   #69
toughbook

 
 

This is a topic that needs to stay on the front burner for a long time. MS is on a good road, they just need to stay on it!

We have 4 computers in our home. An Hp Touchsmart that is a great computer, design wise, above par hardware, 64 bit, but it came with so much bloat that it literally strangled it. I did a clean install and now it is awesome.
My son's school provides there students with Lenovo's. This year they went the new Thinkpad T410 with the I-520 CPU and other decent hardware. It has more bloat on it than the HP had. However, 95% of it is Lenovo's programs themselves. Every single one of them is duplicated from what W7 Enterprise already can do! I promise it takes 3 minutes to start up I can't touch it for obvious reasons though. Then we have a Toshiba Netbook with W7 Starter. Again, alot of Toshiba and other 3rd party programs. Clean install of W7 Home Edition, another stick of 1GB and now it's good to go.

I have 2 Panasonic Toughbooks. They come with around 4 Panny programs but they are useful programs and are not resource hogs. An example is a program called Concealed Mode. I can touch a certain KB button and the entire machine will go into a stealth like mode. No lights anywhere are lit up, screen is off, etc, but the system and wireless is still running. I can adjust certain things to go off such has the wireless as well for covert type of work, but you get the point. I have to keep the Panny drivers for that installed. Each one came with 2 discs, XP Professional and Vista Business along with a disc with just drivers, and the programs for the Gobi Embedded WWAN.

So this just shows that the OEM's can and do decide what's best for the EU in mind and also some that just do not care at all. Now, I did have to pay more for the Toughbooks than most other laptops out there but the old saying holds true most of the time. You get what you pay for.

I like the post that states MS should tell the OEM's that if you install all this crap the OS is going to higher or somehow cripple them in some way. If there sales start taking a hit, they will make changes. It's all about the all mighty dollar these days.
My System SpecsSystem Spec
14 Oct 2010   #70
Tepid

Win 7 Ultimate 32bit
 
 

The top offending OEM's for Crapware that I would say......My own opinion and not based off of anything more than what have seen in the past and present.....and in no certain order, well sort of, but is subjective......

1. Sony - Worst offender for not providing downloadable drivers for some parts of the system and only included in their restore images,, namely the (so called) Programmable P1 and P2 buttons. Or atleast they used to be. But still have garbageware that can kill a system.
2. Acer - Worst Offender of Garbageware that might ahve been developed by them that really kills their garbage systems.
3. HP/Compaq (er. Comcrap) - Just bloated garbage
4. Toshiba (or Toshitba) - ehn, you know.
5. eMachine / Gateway - Gateway is not that horrible I think and can be cleaned up pretty easy. The eMachines are just garbage.

To be perfectly honest, Dell systems actually do have a bit, but it is not as horrifying as the ones listed above, and generally easy to get rid of. Especially since they do include a clean OEM Install disk and a seperate bloatware/drivers disk (which you can throw away) and download the drivers from on-line to get the latest anyway.

Instant Clean install on a dell. As well as blowing away their Restore partition which also contains the bloat.
But this may also depend on where you buy the Dell from. I did get mine from Best Buy on a lark cause I didn't have much time. Check yours before attempting anything.

Anyway. That's my thoughts.
My System SpecsSystem Spec
Reply

 Microsoft slams OEM crapware




Thread Tools




Similar help and support threads
Thread Forum
Microsoft to remove crapware from OEM machines for $99
Microsoft to charge customers $99 to remove OEM 'crapware' Microsoft to charge customers $99 to remove OEM 'crapware' | ZDNet I have no comments - except I will neither support Microsoft nor the OEMs on this issue..:)
News
Can Microsoft cure PC makers of the crapware habit?
More...
News
Jobs slams Adobe Flash as unfit for iPhone
Steve Jobs slams Adobe Flash as unfit for iPhone - Tech and gadgets- msnbc.com
Chillout Room
Microsoft selling crapware-free PCs in its stores
More at: Microsoft selling crapware-free PCs in its stores - Ars Technica
News


Our Sites

Site Links

About Us

Find Us

Windows 7 Forums is an independent web site and has not been authorized, sponsored, or otherwise approved by Microsoft Corporation. "Windows 7" and related materials are trademarks of Microsoft Corp.

Designer Media Ltd

All times are GMT -5. The time now is 19:39.
Twitter Facebook Google+ Seven Forums iOS App Seven Forums Android App