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Windows 7: Microsoft's Attempt to Force XP Users to Upgrade

23 Oct 2010   #21
Vertex

Windows 7 Ultimate 32 Bit, Windows Developer Preview, Linux Mint 9 Gnome 32 Bit
 
 

The main reason for Windows XP's success for me is that, most of the things you would want to do with a computer can still be done with this 9 year old operating system. It may not be very fancy, but heck, it still works. Windows 7 and Vista require more space, require more RAM and require newer hardware and stuff but some people think that they can do things with XP with less cost. Its the "less is more" concept that is keeping this operating system alive.


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23 Oct 2010   #22
Barman58

Windows 10 Pro x64 x2 Windows 10 Enterprise x64, Ubuntu
 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by Vertex View Post
The main reason for Windows XP's success for me is that, most of the things you would want to do with a computer can still be done with this 9 year old operating system. It may not be very fancy, but heck, it still works. Windows 7 and Vista require more space, require more RAM and require newer hardware and stuff but some people think that they can do things with XP with less cost. Its the "less is more" concept that is keeping this operating system alive.
A very good point and one that certainly has applied in the past, (even recently), however XP is now in a support phase where new technologies, are not, and will never be supported.

We are on the brink of the IPv4 address pool becoming used up and thus the need to migrate to IPv6, we are also approaching the disk size limit (2.19TB), for MBR drives, USB3 is also a potential for change.

I believe as hardware advances continue and there is more and more lack of support for it, within XP, then the OS will decline, although this will, (due to the investment that companies have in the OS, in terms of ICT Management Staff knowledge,and user training, as much as software cost), take some time.

Microsoft does have a financial interest in wanting users to upgrade, they are a business after all, but they are not forcing anyone to upgrade, they are just providing the tools that are needed to work in today's computing market, the choice is and always will be the user's
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23 Oct 2010   #23
sygnus21

Windows 10 Pro
 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by LiquidSnak View Post
Things get phased out all the time. Microsoft announced quite a while that it would be discontinuing support for XP users without SP3.
Exactly.... It's not like this was some well kept secret that Microsoft suddenly sprang on people.

Time to move on.

BTW I still have an XP HD on my machine as well, though I can't remember the last time I logged into it

@ Barman58, great point!
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23 Oct 2010   #24
strollin

W10 Pro desktop, W10 laptop, W10 laptop, W10 Pro tablet (all 64-bit)
 
 

The article is very misleading. Yes MS is trying to steer users to upgrade but since it still supports XP with SP3, how does that translate into trying to "kill" XP. Very poor logical argument.
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23 Oct 2010   #25
HerrKaLeun

W7 Pro 64
 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by strollin View Post
The article is very misleading. Yes MS is trying to steer users to upgrade but since it still supports XP with SP3, how does that translate into trying to "kill" XP. Very poor logical argument.
Misleading indeed for the following reasons:
- the 2014 end of support has been known for many years years. How is that news?
- SP2 of course is not being upgraded since there is SP3. With this SP2 has an upgrade.
- XP doesn't get killed, not even after 2014. Anyone still can use it indefinitely, but it just won't be modernized anymore. The same way Mazda [insert your brand] won't show up in 5 years on my doorstep to upgrade my 2005 Mazda for free to be on par with a 2015 Mazda.

There seems to be the big MS-bashing and MS may have its shortcomings. But unlike other software vendors they provide 10+ years of FREE upgrades. any other commercial software requires paid subscription. At work we pay $ 700 a year for auto desk subscription, $ 500 for Trane Trace, plus some other smaller ones and this just for one license. Buying a new OS every 5 years for a feeble $ 100 (or whatever we pay as a company) really is nothing. Especially considering the OS runs EVERYTHING and none of the other software would work at all. In addition the other software vendors arbitrarily change fiel formats every few years to force you to upgrade as soon as you exchange files with other people (which in commercial world you have to do). Besides their new fiel format they fix some bugs, not much else. and bug fixing should be free. So MS is not soooo bad.

And again, people are still able to use W 3.11 if they want to. It wasn't killed by MS. It was killed by the users themselves wanting something better.

People seem to expect to pay for an OS once in their life (or even pirate it) and to have a modern OS at no cost for the next 50 years. Especially considering that most hardware is not in serious use after 5 years anymore and 99.9% of the population buy ready-built-PCs or laptops that come with a new OS anyway.
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23 Oct 2010   #26
bobtran

Windows 7 Ultimate x64
 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by HerrKaLeun View Post
Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by strollin View Post
The article is very misleading. Yes MS is trying to steer users to upgrade but since it still supports XP with SP3, how does that translate into trying to "kill" XP. Very poor logical argument.
Misleading indeed for the following reasons:
- the 2014 end of support has been known for many years years. How is that news?
- SP2 of course is not being upgraded since there is SP3. With this SP2 has an upgrade.
- XP doesn't get killed, not even after 2014. Anyone still can use it indefinitely, but it just won't be modernized anymore. The same way Mazda [insert your brand] won't show up in 5 years on my doorstep to upgrade my 2005 Mazda for free to be on par with a 2015 Mazda.

There seems to be the big MS-bashing and MS may have its shortcomings. But unlike other software vendors they provide 10+ years of FREE upgrades. any other commercial software requires paid subscription. At work we pay $ 700 a year for auto desk subscription, $ 500 for Trane Trace, plus some other smaller ones and this just for one license. Buying a new OS every 5 years for a feeble $ 100 (or whatever we pay as a company) really is nothing. Especially considering the OS runs EVERYTHING and none of the other software would work at all. In addition the other software vendors arbitrarily change fiel formats every few years to force you to upgrade as soon as you exchange files with other people (which in commercial world you have to do). Besides their new fiel format they fix some bugs, not much else. and bug fixing should be free. So MS is not soooo bad.

And again, people are still able to use W 3.11 if they want to. It wasn't killed by MS. It was killed by the users themselves wanting something better.

People seem to expect to pay for an OS once in their life (or even pirate it) and to have a modern OS at no cost for the next 50 years. Especially considering that most hardware is not in serious use after 5 years anymore and 99.9% of the population buy ready-built-PCs or laptops that come with a new OS anyway.
Due to the changes that occured with the redesign of Windows for the Vista and Win7 OS's the "trivial" cost may NOT be so trivial. Just because Microsoft needs to make money does not mean that people with an investment in 3rd party software will choose to buy all new accounting, filing, DB products just to fill the coffers of Microsoft.

The current landscape of the business world is changing faster than anyone could have expected and more people are using alternative devices as their front-end to data services that frankly the traditional Desktop/Laptop environment do not compete well with. I do believe that the back-end/server environment will continue down the current road for many years yet but how we get to them and interact with them can/will change.

Smart phones are becoming peoples way into the Internet.....mobile banking is a norm, tablets as front-end input devices is likely to change the face of day to day business. IT personnel will continue to need the desktop/laptop Ms-Office environment but non development people are becoming more and more unwilling to upgrade just because some company says they should when the current equipment still meets their needs.

Support is less important for "other than large corporations" than many people like to believe. Unless you have a very expensive contract with Microsoft for your support you have to purchase per-incident-support which frankly leaves a lot to be desired.....Further, when companies and individuals want to cut costs, the first thing to go is always tech support...they just expect their IT people to fix it themselves or find a work around (This is called "Doing more with less, and how many of us have heard this statement in the last few years far too many times).

All of this leads to a less than rosy environment for Microsoft to be trying to force upgrades on people who are satisfied with XP.

And don't even bother to think that people don't recognize that as goes SP2....soon will go SP3. They "Get it" really they do!
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23 Oct 2010   #27
HerrKaLeun

W7 Pro 64
 
 

[QUOTE=bobtran;1032123][QUOTE=HerrKaLeun;1031301]
Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by strollin View Post
Due to the changes that occured with the redesign of Windows for the Vista and Win7 OS's the "trivial" cost may NOT be so trivial. Just because Microsoft needs to make money does not mean that people with an investment in 3rd party software will choose to buy all new accounting, filing, DB products just to fill the coffers of Microsoft.

The current landscape of the business world is changing faster than anyone could have expected and more people are using alternative devices as their front-end to data services that frankly the traditional Desktop/Laptop environment do not compete well with. I do believe that the back-end/server environment will continue down the current road for many years yet but how we get to them and interact with them can/will change.

Smart phones are becoming peoples way into the Internet.....mobile banking is a norm, tablets as front-end input devices is likely to change the face of day to day business. IT personnel will continue to need the desktop/laptop Ms-Office environment but non development people are becoming more and more unwilling to upgrade just because some company says they should when the current equipment still meets their needs.

Support is less important for "other than large corporations" than many people like to believe. Unless you have a very expensive contract with Microsoft for your support you have to purchase per-incident-support which frankly leaves a lot to be desired.....Further, when companies and individuals want to cut costs, the first thing to go is always tech support...they just expect their IT people to fix it themselves or find a work around (This is called "Doing more with less, and how many of us have heard this statement in the last few years far too many times).

All of this leads to a less than rosy environment for Microsoft to be trying to force upgrades on people who are satisfied with XP.

And don't even bother to think that people don't recognize that as goes SP2....soon will go SP3. They "Get it" really they do!
I don't get your point. All the software you mention that companies have typically is on subscription and all runs on W7 or whatever the newest OS is. Especially accounting software etc. If you don't have that on the newest version and account correctly to the newest rules, you'll have the IRS in your house quickly :-)

I doubt anyone really uses the MS support. If you work in an It department of a company and need to use MS support, you better don't tell your boss how unqualified you are.
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23 Oct 2010   #28
bobtran

Windows 7 Ultimate x64
 
 

[QUOTE=HerrKaLeun;1032160][QUOTE=bobtran;1032123]
Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by HerrKaLeun View Post

I don't get your point. All the software you mention that companies have typically is on subscription and all runs on W7 or whatever the newest OS is. Especially accounting software etc. If you don't have that on the newest version and account correctly to the newest rules, you'll have the IRS in your house quickly :-)

I doubt anyone really uses the MS support. If you work in an It department of a company and need to use MS support, you better don't tell your boss how unqualified you are.
I fail to see what I said to you that necessitated a personal attack about my competence but I can assure you that none of my previous employers had any cause to question my skills as a Senior Database Administrator in both the private and public sectors (Mainframe and server farms).

Most small to medium business's do not purchase software on a rental/subscription basis, it's called suppport for which you must pay EXTRA or do without, whereas very large corporations and governments call it outsourcing. Microsoft does not sell server software or database software on a subscription basis (software assurance only grants you the right to upgrade during your subscription period), Subscription pc's are called lease which most small to medium business's do not indulge in. Cad software is purchased not rented, etc, etc, etc.

As for Microsoft support you obviously never worked in a large organization or the government at any level or you would realize that integrating many different hardware platforms and operating systems requires input from the OEM's occasionally. It has nothing to do with a persons competence or lack there of (as a mater of fact, failure to involve the vendor of record when a business critical system/hardware failure occurs would be proof of an IT professionals incompetence)....When the OS does not work as advertized or a critical system fail's you go to the manufacturer be it Microsoft, Oracle, IBM or whomever it might be to get expert input as relates to your environment or a patch or work around if the issue has been reported by other clients prior to your issue, this is the essence of IT management where something other than day to day business is concerned.
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23 Oct 2010   #29
Barman58

Windows 10 Pro x64 x2 Windows 10 Enterprise x64, Ubuntu
 
 

Ok People Discussion is fine - personal attacks are not - lets keep this a discussion amongst adults
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23 Oct 2010   #30
HerrKaLeun

W7 Pro 64
 
 

[QUOTE=bobtran;1032215][QUOTE=HerrKaLeun;1032160]
Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by bobtran View Post

I fail to see what I said to you that necessitated a personal attack about my competence but I can assure you that none of my previous employers had any cause to question my skills as a Senior Database Administrator in both the private and public sectors (Mainframe and server farms).

Most small to medium business's do not purchase software on a rental/subscription basis, it's called suppport for which you must pay EXTRA or do without, whereas very large corporations and governments call it outsourcing. Microsoft does not sell server software or database software on a subscription basis (software assurance only grants you the right to upgrade during your subscription period), Subscription pc's are called lease which most small to medium business's do not indulge in. Cad software is purchased not rented, etc, etc, etc.

As for Microsoft support you obviously never worked in a large organization or the government at any level or you would realize that integrating many different hardware platforms and operating systems requires input from the OEM's occasionally. It has nothing to do with a persons competence or lack there of (as a mater of fact, failure to involve the vendor of record when a business critical system/hardware failure occurs would be proof of an IT professionals incompetence)....When the OS does not work as advertized or a critical system fail's you go to the manufacturer be it Microsoft, Oracle, IBM or whomever it might be to get expert input as relates to your environment or a patch or work around if the issue has been reported by other clients prior to your issue, this is the essence of IT management where something other than day to day business is concerned.
I don't see the personal attack here. I talked about bad IT people in general and didn't even know you are an IT support person for a company or whatever you do. I do know there are good IT people as well. Like in any profession.

And yes, if a company has an IT department it is expected that the people do more than hire another consultant or pay a vendor to fix the issues. But that is a general statement, nothing personal. I don't know your circumstances, work or qualification and don't intend to make a statement about it. I do understand some vendor support is needed. But outsourcing everything and still paying for an IT department?

And accounting software better is on subscription or up to date otherwise. Accounting rules change almost daily.

I didn't know everything needs a disclaimer nowadays... it is very common English to say "you" instead of "one"as in "one can't climb that wall"

Edit: just to be clear, bobtran, I'm not talking to you personally when I say that some IT department practices are just bad and backwards. I get your point on the need for the vendor support on large scale problems.
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 Microsoft's Attempt to Force XP Users to Upgrade




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