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Windows 7: Limewire Shut Down

30 Oct 2010   #191
Darician

Windows 7 Ultimate x64 SP1
 
 

In terms of global issues and problems, Piracy should be very low on the list because compared to some other issues, it really is not that big of a deal. The only ones that continually makes such a big deal about it constantly are the big recording companies and studios who are losing money in their view, not withstanding the fact that they have been making record profits in the last few years, they complain because they're losing a bit of money.

I honestly have zero sympathy for these companies because with the record profits they are getting, they honestly need to quit their constant whining. What's more, they also need to stop screwing the honest consumer by putting in ten thousand warnings on DVDs and lacing video with DRM. I saw a graphic earlier in this thread that described it well, the pirate downloads the movie and then gets to watch it without any restrictions. The honest customer first has to view the ten billion warnings, the previews, then the menu, then a ratings warning, a copyright warning, and then finally the movie. That doesn't justify piracy but it makes a point that these studios quite frankly just don't get it and the reality is, they probably will never get it. They are so hopelessly out of touch with reality that they are making a huge fuss about shutting down one client. Then there are a whole bunch of other clients that connect to that same network so in reality, they did next to nothing and wasted a lot of money. It reminds me of the big fuss about shutting down the Pirate Bay. I honestly laughed through the whole thing because it was nothing but a joke considering that the guys were running the site on their laptop and the site is still up now after transferred ownership. And there's so many other torrent sites out there as well so shutting down the Pirate Bay really would do little in the long term because a whole bunch of other sites would pop up in its place. Just like in the old days, it went from Napster to Kazaa to Limewire to now, something else. The fact is, piracy will probably never be stopped because it had to be nipped in the bud in the olden days; once companies took notice, it was far too late.

Now, I'm not one of those people who's going to stand up and take a hard stance against piracy because it's morally wrong and blah blah blah, quite frankly I'm very apathetic to it and don't really care. I know plenty of people who pirate and I certainly won't go around reporting them because what they do is their business and I don't really care that they do. Companies love to use that old rhetoric of "every download is a lost sale". That's a load and nothing more because the fact is, if people had to live without it because a lot of this media were unavailable for whatever reason, then people would do just that, live without. What did people do in the old days? We bought tapes and recorded songs off the radio, we made mix tapes and shared them amongst our friends. With digital, it eliminated a barrier and that was quality degradation as only ones and zeros are being copied. Some people say it's theft as well to let a friend borrow a CD as he could rip it.

I wouldn't call piracy theft. I would liken it more to counterfitting. Theft usually implies in my view that the stolen item is no longer available to its original owner. In this case, it still is. Hence why I think of it more as counterfitting if you illegally download it for your personal use. If you start selling it for a profit, then it's theft as you are taking the company's profits. Is either one right? No, neither one is right. But at the same time, I look at it as "oh, boohoo, x company made only $97 million instead of $100 million. I guess the CEO won't be able to buy that extra Rolls Royce for his collection." The fact is, with the music industry as well as the TV and movie industries, it's greed and nothing more. Technically, you're not even allowed to tape a sports game such as a football game without express written authorization from the NFL and the network carrying the game. This is also the case with many TV Shows and movies because the studios expect to instead go out and pay for their officially released copy. Especially given the recent addition of HD and DVR, studios are getting worse and worse because they know people can now record them in HD quality and they will not go out and buy the released versions from the studio so they prevent recordings during prime time of some shows.

Don't get me wrong, I can understand the need for profit for these companies, after all, if they weren't making a profit, what would be the point or more accurately the motivation of continuing the production of shows, music, and movies. However, these companies need to quit constantly crying foul because of piracy. They always blame piracy for lost sales and profits. Did they ever think that maybe it's because people are tired of crap being released? Maybe if they thought to improve the quality of the music, the TV Shows, the movies being released, there wouldn't be so many lost profits. And to make it worse, as I said before, they cry foul yet they claim record profits year after year. So which is it, are they losing money or making money hand over fist? The fact is, as I said before, greed and nothing but. I watch a few TV shows being released today and most of it is crap to me. A lot of prime time does not interest me at all. As far as movies, not much recently released actually interests me very much because Hollywood has been releasing nothing but crap for the most part. And as far as music goes, I haven't heard an album that is readily available for sale as of late that actually is worth the money they're charging for it. There is some music I'd like to buy (mainly soundtracks) but unfortunately, there are no OSTs easily obtainable. So again, they need to quit crying foul and start releasing things that are of better quality and what's more, actually compel people to purchase their releases.

Another issue is the pricing of current products. $1.00 per song is still kind of expensive. $0.50 or $0.25 is more reasonable and would get people to purchase more songs, especially in this economy. Instead of $2 per TV Show Episode, how about $1 per episode and $2 per HD episode. Another thing the industry has not done is endear itself to anyone coutesy of the RIAA. They were demanding insane amounts of money, in the hundreds or tens of thousands of dollars for maybe 20 or 30 downloaded songs. Give me a break, that was corporate greed at its finest. That didn't deter people, instead it just caused people to basically throw a big fat middle finger to the RIAA and continue downloading even more. If they wanted to be decent and at least prove a point, they could have just sued these people and told them "OK, pay for the songs you downloaded, here's a $350 fine for it, don't do it again." Okay, said person would surely not do it again and it would serve as an example of the industry being fair and people would at least take the hint but instead they decide to be completely stupid, then of course people are going to tell them to screw themselves. Then if they get this huge lawsuit, they get the court order to pay and then go file bankruptcy because most of the people sued can honestly not afford to pay these ridiculous amounts that these companies plainly do not deserve.

It's not surprising the apathy people have toward this considering these ridiculous lawsuits and all the noise the industry makes despite huge profits. People who are frankly struggling paycheck to paycheck seeing people like Gene Simmons saying that you need to take people's houses and everything if they download their songs look at them and basically think to themselves that individuals like him can piss off. It's not so much that people don't think that it's wrong or don't know that it's wrong to download songs illegally, it's the fact that they don't care because the way it's often seen is that purchasing only serves to make the rich richer. A lot think "well, what's a drop in the bucket to them?" Some of course will take the moral high ground and say that it's illegal. The other side will turn around and say that said person is nothing more than a tool for greedy corporations. The fact is that neither side will see eye to eye and what's more, it also depends on the nation's laws. In some countries, there are some very relaxed piracy laws to the point where pirating is actually legal. Does that all of a sudden make it right considering it is legal in some countries, is it right in only those countries? If we were to take the point of view of those who say that piracy is wrong because of the law, then it would be right in these countries as it's legal. I use Iran as an example, their copyright law only applies to works created in Iran, anything else is 100% legal to host and pirate as much as you want in that country. Again, would that make piracy right? Tough call as Iranian law would say that I can however, this is a grey area as other countries would be involved and it would turn into a legal mess that would probably never get resolved.

Back to the matter at hand, Limewire being shut down in the end is a hollow victory because it means nothing. The fact is the network Limewire connects to is still up and running and accessible by other clients so nothing was truly accomplished except the industry looking like a bunch of crybabies crying foul over a bit of lost money and wasting tons of money on what essentially amounts to nothing. Next, I'm sure they'll pick on another program to have shut down and the cycle will continue. One will be shut down and about five or ten will open at the same time. As I said before, I don't take a hard stance against piracy and I won't get on a soapbox telling people it's wrong because of blah blah blah because the fact is I don't care. I see people often take OEM licenses of Windows and use the key on other computers because they're decommissioning the old PC or go and buy cheap used PCs just to use the OEM stickers on other boxes. Technically, this violates the EULA but am I going to go running to Microsoft like a tattletale and say "oh look, someone's violating the Windows EULA and pirating!" No because I don't care. It's not like I'm going to get some money for doing it, it's not like there's something to be gained from it. Same with pirated music or other pirated software, if other people use it, that's their business, I'm not going to go and complain to someone about it because it's not my business to do so and I gain nothing from it and I also am not going to give people a speech about it because there's no point to do so. If someone wants to take the time to tell these people about the moral wrongdoings of this and what not, they can do so but I am not going to tell them about the "plight" of these poor multi-million and multi-billion dollar companies because of software piracy or music piracy.

I don't advocate piracy and I don't tell people how to do it but at the same time, if someone wants to do it or knows how to do it, that's their prerogative. I saw someone mentioned it earlier that the belief is because it's happening to a big company, then it's not a big deal and how that's wrong. Technically, it is but at the same time, why should I care? Am I going to get rewarded by said company? Is said company going to honor me for reporting a pirate or something? If not, then they can screw themselves.

Off-topic: The start of page 20 of this epic thread. YAY!


My System SpecsSystem Spec
.
30 Oct 2010   #192
Grimmjow

Windows 7 Ultimate x32
 
 

I think the music market is mostly based on attracting teenagers to buy and listen mainstream music, so I can assume that that particular group is/was using, let say Limewire, more then some older group. When you are working, there isn't that much time for music. Too much obligations, work, family...

And how many favorite artists/bands can one have? You can't just love everything that's new and every new artist that will be launched by this companies, its just not possible. Profit is in question, it's a BIG business, and they know how to attract (read manipulate) this youngsters. So if someone can't buy it, as stated by one of the previous posters, they will turn to Limewire.

That said, of course there are and those guys that just don't want to pay, so they use illegal ways to complete/upgrade their collections. Maybe cloud based computing can solve some of the issues, but there is completely different set of problems that will come with it, so...It's messed up. I can't see solution for the problem coming in the next few years.

There was this big raid by the police in Europe few weeks ago I think, sites like piratebay were down, but not for long. I mean, everything you need (if you want to do something illegal) is a social network (for asking around who has what) and program like utorent. So, in this example, facebook should be down too, couse it can be source for doing illegal activities. How you will control that? Shutting down limewire solves absolutely nothing. Its more like collecting political points, and gaining support for the political campaigns from the big companies. That's my opinion about all this.
cheers
My System SpecsSystem Spec
30 Oct 2010   #193
noobvious

Win 7 Ultimate 64-bit SP1 (desktop)
 
 

Imagine the uproar if Facebook was shut down.....
(wouldn't affect me any)
My System SpecsSystem Spec
.

30 Oct 2010   #194
jimbo45

Linux CENTOS 7 / various Windows OS'es and servers
 
 

Hi all
Whatever the law says it's totally REDICULOUS and UNENFORCEABLE.

If I buy a DVD legally in a store in the USA why should I only be allowed to play it in say the US (Region 1) when my laptop-- has a regon 2 player and I'm visiting the US -- that's what laptops are for -- to be used when away from office / home etc.

Of course this problem is eqsily get aroundable but also technically illegal.

This sort of TOTAL BOVINE SCATOLOGY started of this whole mess and NOTHING is going to stop P2P, physical medium swapping or file sharing one way or another.

I certainly shan't feel any problems in lending stuff whether "digital" or physical to other people and I'm not alone in this.

So PLEASE SCUMBAG LAWYERS acting for these giant corporations please eat shxxe and DIE. You aren't going to win in the long term anyway so why not do something useful like making the availbility of content easier and cheaper and don't riddle it with DRM or other irksome restrictions.

Cheers
jimbo
My System SpecsSystem Spec
30 Oct 2010   #195
lorddenis

 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by Darician View Post
In terms of global issues and problems, Piracy should be very low on the list because compared to some other issues, it really is not that big of a deal. The only ones that continually makes such a big deal about it constantly are the big recording companies and studios who are losing money in their view, not withstanding the fact that they have been making record profits in the last few years, they complain because they're losing a bit of money.

I honestly have zero sympathy for these companies because with the record profits they are getting, they honestly need to quit their constant whining. What's more, they also need to stop screwing the honest consumer by putting in ten thousand warnings on DVDs and lacing video with DRM. I saw a graphic earlier in this thread that described it well, the pirate downloads the movie and then gets to watch it without any restrictions. The honest customer first has to view the ten billion warnings, the previews, then the menu, then a ratings warning, a copyright warning, and then finally the movie. That doesn't justify piracy but it makes a point that these studios quite frankly just don't get it and the reality is, they probably will never get it. They are so hopelessly out of touch with reality that they are making a huge fuss about shutting down one client. Then there are a whole bunch of other clients that connect to that same network so in reality, they did next to nothing and wasted a lot of money. It reminds me of the big fuss about shutting down the Pirate Bay. I honestly laughed through the whole thing because it was nothing but a joke considering that the guys were running the site on their laptop and the site is still up now after transferred ownership. And there's so many other torrent sites out there as well so shutting down the Pirate Bay really would do little in the long term because a whole bunch of other sites would pop up in its place. Just like in the old days, it went from Napster to Kazaa to Limewire to now, something else. The fact is, piracy will probably never be stopped because it had to be nipped in the bud in the olden days; once companies took notice, it was far too late.

Now, I'm not one of those people who's going to stand up and take a hard stance against piracy because it's morally wrong and blah blah blah, quite frankly I'm very apathetic to it and don't really care. I know plenty of people who pirate and I certainly won't go around reporting them because what they do is their business and I don't really care that they do. Companies love to use that old rhetoric of "every download is a lost sale". That's a load and nothing more because the fact is, if people had to live without it because a lot of this media were unavailable for whatever reason, then people would do just that, live without. What did people do in the old days? We bought tapes and recorded songs off the radio, we made mix tapes and shared them amongst our friends. With digital, it eliminated a barrier and that was quality degradation as only ones and zeros are being copied. Some people say it's theft as well to let a friend borrow a CD as he could rip it.

I wouldn't call piracy theft. I would liken it more to counterfitting. Theft usually implies in my view that the stolen item is no longer available to its original owner. In this case, it still is. Hence why I think of it more as counterfitting if you illegally download it for your personal use. If you start selling it for a profit, then it's theft as you are taking the company's profits. Is either one right? No, neither one is right. But at the same time, I look at it as "oh, boohoo, x company made only $97 million instead of $100 million. I guess the CEO won't be able to buy that extra Rolls Royce for his collection." The fact is, with the music industry as well as the TV and movie industries, it's greed and nothing more. Technically, you're not even allowed to tape a sports game such as a football game without express written authorization from the NFL and the network carrying the game. This is also the case with many TV Shows and movies because the studios expect to instead go out and pay for their officially released copy. Especially given the recent addition of HD and DVR, studios are getting worse and worse because they know people can now record them in HD quality and they will not go out and buy the released versions from the studio so they prevent recordings during prime time of some shows.

Don't get me wrong, I can understand the need for profit for these companies, after all, if they weren't making a profit, what would be the point or more accurately the motivation of continuing the production of shows, music, and movies. However, these companies need to quit constantly crying foul because of piracy. They always blame piracy for lost sales and profits. Did they ever think that maybe it's because people are tired of crap being released? Maybe if they thought to improve the quality of the music, the TV Shows, the movies being released, there wouldn't be so many lost profits. And to make it worse, as I said before, they cry foul yet they claim record profits year after year. So which is it, are they losing money or making money hand over fist? The fact is, as I said before, greed and nothing but. I watch a few TV shows being released today and most of it is crap to me. A lot of prime time does not interest me at all. As far as movies, not much recently released actually interests me very much because Hollywood has been releasing nothing but crap for the most part. And as far as music goes, I haven't heard an album that is readily available for sale as of late that actually is worth the money they're charging for it. There is some music I'd like to buy (mainly soundtracks) but unfortunately, there are no OSTs easily obtainable. So again, they need to quit crying foul and start releasing things that are of better quality and what's more, actually compel people to purchase their releases.

Another issue is the pricing of current products. $1.00 per song is still kind of expensive. $0.50 or $0.25 is more reasonable and would get people to purchase more songs, especially in this economy. Instead of $2 per TV Show Episode, how about $1 per episode and $2 per HD episode. Another thing the industry has not done is endear itself to anyone coutesy of the RIAA. They were demanding insane amounts of money, in the hundreds or tens of thousands of dollars for maybe 20 or 30 downloaded songs. Give me a break, that was corporate greed at its finest. That didn't deter people, instead it just caused people to basically throw a big fat middle finger to the RIAA and continue downloading even more. If they wanted to be decent and at least prove a point, they could have just sued these people and told them "OK, pay for the songs you downloaded, here's a $350 fine for it, don't do it again." Okay, said person would surely not do it again and it would serve as an example of the industry being fair and people would at least take the hint but instead they decide to be completely stupid, then of course people are going to tell them to screw themselves. Then if they get this huge lawsuit, they get the court order to pay and then go file bankruptcy because most of the people sued can honestly not afford to pay these ridiculous amounts that these companies plainly do not deserve.

It's not surprising the apathy people have toward this considering these ridiculous lawsuits and all the noise the industry makes despite huge profits. People who are frankly struggling paycheck to paycheck seeing people like Gene Simmons saying that you need to take people's houses and everything if they download their songs look at them and basically think to themselves that individuals like him can piss off. It's not so much that people don't think that it's wrong or don't know that it's wrong to download songs illegally, it's the fact that they don't care because the way it's often seen is that purchasing only serves to make the rich richer. A lot think "well, what's a drop in the bucket to them?" Some of course will take the moral high ground and say that it's illegal. The other side will turn around and say that said person is nothing more than a tool for greedy corporations. The fact is that neither side will see eye to eye and what's more, it also depends on the nation's laws. In some countries, there are some very relaxed piracy laws to the point where pirating is actually legal. Does that all of a sudden make it right considering it is legal in some countries, is it right in only those countries? If we were to take the point of view of those who say that piracy is wrong because of the law, then it would be right in these countries as it's legal. I use Iran as an example, their copyright law only applies to works created in Iran, anything else is 100% legal to host and pirate as much as you want in that country. Again, would that make piracy right? Tough call as Iranian law would say that I can however, this is a grey area as other countries would be involved and it would turn into a legal mess that would probably never get resolved.

Back to the matter at hand, Limewire being shut down in the end is a hollow victory because it means nothing. The fact is the network Limewire connects to is still up and running and accessible by other clients so nothing was truly accomplished except the industry looking like a bunch of crybabies crying foul over a bit of lost money and wasting tons of money on what essentially amounts to nothing. Next, I'm sure they'll pick on another program to have shut down and the cycle will continue. One will be shut down and about five or ten will open at the same time. As I said before, I don't take a hard stance against piracy and I won't get on a soapbox telling people it's wrong because of blah blah blah because the fact is I don't care. I see people often take OEM licenses of Windows and use the key on other computers because they're decommissioning the old PC or go and buy cheap used PCs just to use the OEM stickers on other boxes. Technically, this violates the EULA but am I going to go running to Microsoft like a tattletale and say "oh look, someone's violating the Windows EULA and pirating!" No because I don't care. It's not like I'm going to get some money for doing it, it's not like there's something to be gained from it. Same with pirated music or other pirated software, if other people use it, that's their business, I'm not going to go and complain to someone about it because it's not my business to do so and I gain nothing from it and I also am not going to give people a speech about it because there's no point to do so. If someone wants to take the time to tell these people about the moral wrongdoings of this and what not, they can do so but I am not going to tell them about the "plight" of these poor multi-million and multi-billion dollar companies because of software piracy or music piracy.

I don't advocate piracy and I don't tell people how to do it but at the same time, if someone wants to do it or knows how to do it, that's their prerogative. I saw someone mentioned it earlier that the belief is because it's happening to a big company, then it's not a big deal and how that's wrong. Technically, it is but at the same time, why should I care? Am I going to get rewarded by said company? Is said company going to honor me for reporting a pirate or something? If not, then they can screw themselves.

Off-topic: The start of page 20 of this epic thread. YAY!
awsome post!
My System SpecsSystem Spec
30 Oct 2010   #196
Layback Bear

Windows 10 Pro. 64/ version 1709
 
 

I wouldn't call piracy theft. Okay then what would one call it. Post #195, lorddenis
My System SpecsSystem Spec
30 Oct 2010   #197
nailgunner

Windows 7 Home Premium 64 bit
 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by Darician View Post

I wouldn't call piracy theft.
Seriously? NOT theft? A % of the purchase price generally goes to various artists and copyright holders. By not paying what is LEGALLY required you have done the same thing as reaching into their wallets and pulling the money out. Legally, they are entitled to the money, regardless of how rich they already are and how unjust some people may think the system is. And half a page of trying to rationalize that away doesn't change the BASIC idea. It's wrong, it's illegal, it's a felony, and ummm...geeee...it's theft.
My System SpecsSystem Spec
30 Oct 2010   #198
Skulblaka

Windows 8 Professional 64-bit
 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by nailgunner View Post
Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by Darician View Post

I wouldn't call piracy theft.
Seriously? NOT theft? A % of the purchase price generally goes to various artists and copyright holders. By not paying what is LEGALLY required you have done the same thing as reaching into their wallets and pulling the money out. Legally, they are entitled to the money, regardless of how rich they already are and how unjust some people may think the system is. And half a page of trying to rationalize that away doesn't change the BASIC idea. It's wrong, it's illegal, it's a felony, and ummm...geeee...it's theft.
Whoa, you seem to be a fan boy of anti-piracy.
My System SpecsSystem Spec
30 Oct 2010   #199
niemiro

Vista Home Premium x86 SP2
 
 

Quote:
Quote:
Seriously? NOT theft? A % of the purchase price generally goes to various artists and copyright holders. By not paying what is LEGALLY required you have done the same thing as reaching into their wallets and pulling the money out. Legally, they are entitled to the money, regardless of how rich they already are and how unjust some people may think the system is. And half a page of trying to rationalize that away doesn't change the BASIC idea. It's wrong, it's illegal, it's a felony, and ummm...geeee...it's theft.
Whoa, you seem to be a fan boy of anti-piracy.
I agree very strongly with BOTH of you.
My System SpecsSystem Spec
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