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Windows 7: EU to pursue antitrust case, despite Windows 7 E

14 Jun 2009   #31
Lordbob75

Windows 7 Ultimate x64, Mint 9
 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by Boris View Post
In the past all geeks were complaining about MS shoving their standards down every bodies throats. Now the EU tries to change things to more open standards and what happens... Most people here cry murder???

Off course unbundling IE is not enough if MS manages to get IE preinstalled by all OEM manufacturers.

(Remember Intels plans to push AMD out of the market?)

I want competition, I want choice!
Thats why I am voting for them to give you the choice when you install the OS. As in pick which browser you would like to install.

~Lordbob


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18 Jun 2009   #32
EvStarr

Windows 7 Build 7100
 
 

Sooo. lets say that I just went out to the local big box somewhere in the EU and bought my first computer ever. I get home, I have my internet turned on by the local telco. I am all set to hit the interwebs.... and I can't because my os does not have a browser installed with which I can download a browser.?.
I can't get updates either can I?

seems like a stupid argument to me. they have to bundle something if only for you to dl something else without the use of sneaker net to a neighbor's working comp.

Just a thought.
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18 Jun 2009   #33
Boris

W7 64b - Leopard 10.6.2 - Ubuntu 10.10 (MBP Snow Leopard 10.6.3)
 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by EvStarr View Post
Sooo. lets say that I just went out to the local big box somewhere in the EU and bought my first computer ever. I get home, I have my internet turned on by the local telco. I am all set to hit the interwebs.... and I can't because my os does not have a browser installed with which I can download a browser.?.
I can't get updates either can I?

seems like a stupid argument to me. they have to bundle something if only for you to dl something else without the use of sneaker net to a neighbor's working comp.

Just a thought.
Please read the article linked by the first poster...
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18 Jun 2009   #34
dmex

 

I think Microsoft would sooner pull out of the EU market than allow competitors products to be advertised/installed by Windows Setup.

If the user is too stupid to uninstall IE and use another browser then they will also be too stupid to realize that the browser they just picked is not from Microsoft and that Microsoft do not support/help users with it.

In two years from now if Opera decides to stop updating/distributing its browser for Windows were will that leave all the users who select it for installation? Microsoft legally cant update Opera's code so it leaves the door open for a Pandora's box of exploits and misuse by that party.

It would be easier just to include a CD containing all the different browsers not just IE8, that way Microsoft doesn't have to distribute a competitors product and keeps a level playing field for all parties.

I think this case is really interesting and possibly will leave the door open for more cases like thins one, I see Coca-Cola being sued by Pepsi and being forced to include Pepsi advertising on CocaCola bottles, I also see Ferrari being sued by Volvo and then being forced to sell them with Volvo engines...

The other interesting thing here is that a few others and I can build a browser right now from code available from Links2/Webkit and other projects, can we have our browsers included with Windows or with the CD too? If we cant then I dont think Opera should be allowed either
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18 Jun 2009   #35
sideeffect

Windows 7 x64 RC
 
 

Good on the EU they told Microsoft to bundle 3rd party choices and Microsoft tried to go half way. the solution Microsoft came up with either put the choice in the hands of the OEM's which is still not user choice.

The other option was for the user to download their own browser from a fresh install with no browser to use to find one with. This would have left most people to just getting IE again which is probably flashing up as an important update as soon as Windows Update detects a net connection.

It was IE that stopped updating for a long period at IE6 which caused a lot of people to change browser. Competition from Firefox and Opera has worked to reignite IE but it is right for the EU to enforce fair competition.
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19 Jun 2009   #36
garysgold

Vista Ult 64 bit Seven Ult RTM x64
 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by dmex View Post
The other interesting thing here is that a few others and I can build a browser right now from code available from Links2/Webkit and other projects, can we have our browsers included with Windows or with the CD too? If we cant then I dont think Opera should be allowed either
Hahaaa! A 50 DVD set.

MS should flat out refuse to bundle other browsers with the OS. No IE, no nothing.
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19 Jun 2009   #37
PhreePhly

Windows 7 x64 (RTM via MSDN)
 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by sideeffect View Post
Good on the EU they told Microsoft to bundle 3rd party choices and Microsoft tried to go half way. the solution Microsoft came up with either put the choice in the hands of the OEM's which is still not user choice.

The other option was for the user to download their own browser from a fresh install with no browser to use to find one with. This would have left most people to just getting IE again which is probably flashing up as an important update as soon as Windows Update detects a net connection.

It was IE that stopped updating for a long period at IE6 which caused a lot of people to change browser. Competition from Firefox and Opera has worked to reignite IE but it is right for the EU to enforce fair competition.
Here's the problem, at what point do you decide which browsers to include? Opera has less than 1% share, why should they be included? If you consider only market share, then logically, that means IE, Firefox and Safari.

Or the other extreme, in order to "stimulate growth" in the market, they can include every browser under the sun, but they had better not forget any, or be threatened with stifling the growth of some obscure browser.

No MS made the logical choice, in order to protect itself from the vindictive nature of the EU Commission and decided to add no browser and let the market decide.

PhreePhly
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19 Jun 2009   #38
sideeffect

Windows 7 x64 RC
 
 

Yes you do have a point the more I think about it Microsoft couldn't really do anything else easily but i did have an idea for a less easy fixes.

They could create an interface like in Windows 7 that links to compatible Anti virus software but instead links to a list of compatible Browsers.

I think the EU decision to continue action might be because the Browser issue was not the only problem. They might also be pressing for a removal of other items like Media Center, DVD maker, Media Player etc.

Would be nice if Microsoft did release a Bare bones OS for Europe though with a 3 - 4 GB install size. Would save people using Vlite!
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20 Jun 2009   #39
pestbest

Windows 7
 
 

Do you guys realise that EU is doing this cause they believe that Microsoft is taking advantage of it's wide base of Windows Users. It is not doing this just because Opera complained. They are using Opera's complaint to their own advantage. And the EU believes only in it's decisions. Please ask the people using Windows in EU first. Maybe we should have a vote or something. EU is simply being stupid just like Opera is.
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20 Jun 2009   #40
petrossa

vista x64/ win 7 x64
 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by PhreePhly View Post
No MS made the logical choice, in order to protect itself from the vindictive nature of the EU Commission and decided to add no browser and let the market decide.

PhreePhly
It's hard to get this isn't it?

There is no 'choice'.

In the EU the laws of the EU prevail, not those of USA and certainly not those of a company who has been judged to be anti-competitve. They didn't get fined for being nice guys.

The EU DECIDES what THEY accept as solution. If MS refuses to comply with a direct order from the EU they'll find themselves forking out quite higher fines then the last time.

According to EU laws they have to right to impose up to 10% of a company's profits. They've come off lightely last time around.
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 EU to pursue antitrust case, despite Windows 7 E




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