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Windows 7: Apple takes a few shots at Windows during WWDC09

21 Jun 2009   #71
John Henry

Win 7 RC 64bit b7229
 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by rcocchiararo View Post
but its obviusly not the same build quality :P )
You said it all.


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21 Jun 2009   #72
jw12345

Windows 7
 
 

The thing about the I'm a PC ads are that that claim that the POS cheap notebooks are the same quality as Apple notebooks, which is not true, except for raw performance, and even then is only barely true.

ANd the idea of Snow Leopard being good while 7 is bad isn't hypocritical. Apple wasn't criticizing the idea of refining an old OS. They were saying that the base is still Vista, which is widely perceived as poor quality, while their base is solid. So while MS needed to back track on their OS because of inherent problems, they only patched it up. Snow Leopard is a continuation of a good thing, Windows 7 is a continuation of a bad thing.

Whether you agree is irrelevant, their thought process isn't hypocritical.
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21 Jun 2009   #73
rcocchiararo

many
 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by pillainp View Post
Was just thinking...
Maybe MS could come up with a new ad campaign for Windows 7: You can keep your old PC.

After all, Snow Leopard leaves all those PowerMac and PowerPC based Mac owners in the lurch. It may only cost $29, but then you have to add the cost of the Intel Mac you have to buy to run it. That means Apple has, at one stroke, trashed all those older machines.

And to think people lambast MS because their 10-year-old printer won't work with Vista or Windows 7.
PPC macs are kinda old too, the first intel macs came out in 2005, right ?

pcs from that made running vista posible i guess, but not like present ones do.

pd: in fact, an athlon XP with 1gb... can run windows 7 decently, but utterly sucks on vista

you do have a point about NOT being able to run it at all, but o well :P
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21 Jun 2009   #74
PhreePhly

Windows 7 x64 (RTM via MSDN)
 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by Lordbob75 View Post
My thoughts and point exactly.
And the reason they get less viruses is BECAUSE they have less than a 15% MARKET SHARE!!!!!!

**Graphic Removed**

*NOTE: Please note that I have nothing against Apple or macs, this just shows one of the comics from Ctrl+Alt+Del.

~Lordbob
Apple will be dancing in the streets when they reach 15%. Right now they are at about 3% worldwide and 9% in the US.

PhreePhly
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21 Jun 2009   #75
jw12345

Windows 7
 
 

I don't think Apple cares too much about market share as long as they can make huge profits and make premium notebooks. Macs are just common enough that most applications most people need have mac equivalents or even ports. OS X is a solid OS, IMO with some better design choices than Windows, hardware is great, they're happy, I'm happy, everybody's happy. There's no money in cheap laptops, the margins are too small, so Apple doesn't play in that game, when they can sell less laptops for the same amount of money and come out with amazing brand image that they leverage for other products.

Apple isn't trying to capture the market, they just want to cater to premium laptop, students, and creative professionals.

@rcocchiararo: you are simplifying Vista's problems. When Vista was released, ~5% of business PCs were able to run Vista with aero, and not much more on the consumer side. Vista effectively locked out a much much larger percent of their market than Apple is now. Apple needs to complete the 64-bit and intel transitions and MS had its reasons also.
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21 Jun 2009   #76
PhreePhly

Windows 7 x64 (RTM via MSDN)
 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by jw12345 View Post
The thing about the I'm a PC ads are that that claim that the POS cheap notebooks are the same quality as Apple notebooks, which is not true, except for raw performance, and even then is only barely true.

...
Given that the internals (the actual part that makes the notebook run) of the MacBook are of no better quality than the competing Dells, Toshibas, Sonys or HPs, the only thing that the Macs have is a pretty shell. It is pretty, and quite sturdy, but don't tell me that the internals are any better, and that's what matters.

PhreePhly
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21 Jun 2009   #77
jw12345

Windows 7
 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by PhreePhly View Post
Given that the internals (the actual part that makes the notebook run) of the MacBook are of no better quality than the competing Dells, Toshibas, Sonys or HPs, the only thing that the Macs have is a pretty shell. It is pretty, and quite sturdy, but don't tell me that the internals are any better, and that's what matters.

PhreePhly
I'm not claiming internals are better (though some of the PC comparisons lacked a few minor internal features). I don't disagree with you on that. I disagree that the internals are all that matters any more than the engine and transmission is all that matters in a car.

I will gladly pay 15-20% more for a thin, light sturdy design and, for my workflow, is a superior OS.
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21 Jun 2009   #78
PhreePhly

Windows 7 x64 (RTM via MSDN)
 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by jw12345 View Post
I don't think Apple cares too much about market share as long as they can make huge profits and make premium notebooks. Macs are just common enough that most applications most people need have mac equivalents or even ports. OS X is a solid OS, IMO with some better design choices than Windows, hardware is great, they're happy, I'm happy, everybody's happy. There's no money in cheap laptops, the margins are too small, so Apple doesn't play in that game, when they can sell less laptops for the same amount of money and come out with amazing brand image that they leverage for other products.

Apple isn't trying to capture the market, they just want to cater to premium laptop, students, and creative professionals.

@rcocchiararo: you are simplifying Vista's problems. When Vista was released, ~5% of business PCs were able to run Vista with aero, and not much more on the consumer side. Vista effectively locked out a much much larger percent of their market than Apple is now. Apple needs to complete the 64-bit and intel transitions and MS had its reasons also.
Oh you're absolutely right, Apple doesn't want a large market share. OSX is security swiss cheese, and they can't afford a large marketshare. They need to keep it small.

I don't understand why everybody expects that busineses are going to embrace a new OS the moment it is released. My company, with about 4000 PC's made the move to XP completely just 2 years ago. We were on Win2000 before that. The US Army just announced that they are moving to Vista starting in August, even though Win 7 will be available soon after. This is because they spent the last 2 years making sure they were ready software and hardware wise. This is normal and smart for any large organization. They will probably transition to Win 7 in about 3 years, when Win 8 will be ready for release. That's how business works.

The sad thing is that Apple knows this, but they into gonzo marketing. They've been this way for many years. The cr*p they spewed about the dominance of the PPC chip, while getting their clocks cleaned by Intel is still stuff of legend. Of course once they moved to Intel, Apple conveniently forgot all about PPC and in fact, with Snow Leopard, no longer support it.

PhreePhly
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21 Jun 2009   #79
PhreePhly

Windows 7 x64 (RTM via MSDN)
 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by jw12345 View Post
I'm not claiming internals are better (though some of the PC comparisons lacked a few minor internal features). I don't disagree with you on that. I disagree that the internals are all that matters any more than the engine and transmission is all that matters in a car.

I will gladly pay 15-20% more for a thin, light sturdy design and, for my workflow, is a superior OS.
Try closer to 15%-30% and of course the engine and transmission are the most important part of the car. That what makes it do what it supposed to do...drive.

The rest is a pretty shell, but has nothing to do with the function of getting from one place to the next.

PhreePhly
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21 Jun 2009   #80
jw12345

Windows 7
 
 

I don't really disagree too much with anything in your post two above.

But my point with the business and consumer readiness for Vista was just that it's unfair to criticize Apple for cutting support for pretty old computers, while Vista effectively cut support for nearly all their computers. I think both were justified.

Apple with the PPC chips were ridiculous. In fact, Apple of the 90s and early 00s was ridiculous. But ever since the iPod and the intel transition, they've seemed to have gotten their head on straight. Both Apple and MS have histories plagued by stupidity and anti-competitiveness.

I really like both companies and the work they put out. But since this thread has members crapping on Apple, I'm just trying to point out MS has done similar things many many times before.

But I don't think internals are all that matter. The internals are vital, like the engine and transmission, but past a certain point, it's all about comfort to the user. Light thin laptops are simply more pleasurable to use and handle, PC or Mac. Especially to somebody like me, who is a power user in how much I rely on computers for work and do tons of scripting and 'advanced features', but the things I do aren't resource intensive.

But this really isn't a Mac vs PC debate. It's a debate on if Apple is being unfair and deceitful to little ol' innocent Microsoft.
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 Apple takes a few shots at Windows during WWDC09




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