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Windows 7: Microsoft Explains and Defends Silent Fixes

19 Feb 2011   #11
BCXtreme

Windows 7 Home Premium x64
 
 

There isn't anything in that article that suggests that updates are being secretly pushed to users' machines. It sounds more like MS simply doesn't disclose every patch that is contained within their regular, visible security updates.


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20 Feb 2011   #12
mr pc

Windows 7
 
 

I have a hard time agreeing that MS would completely fall in line with supporting complaints after a secret update considering it could be exceptionally time consuming and costly to support such claims if people were under the impression it had contributed to system failure or found a way to exploit it.

For example - if this update just happened (which I did find 2 critical windows updates but have coincidentally also run into a NEW S.M.A.R.T HD failure- how can I prove or disprove complicity with the update? I could very well be under the impression that this error (critical and a massive headache nonetheless) quite possibly correlates to their secret update.

So how would I or anyone else go about that?
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20 Feb 2011   #13
marsmimar

Microsoft Community Contributor Award Recipient

 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by mr pc View Post
For example - if this update just happened (which I did find 2 critical windows updates but have coincidentally also run into a NEW S.M.A.R.T HD failure- how can I prove or disprove complicity with the update? I could very well be under the impression that this error (critical and a massive headache nonetheless) quite possibly correlates to their secret update.

So how would I or anyone else go about that?
Microsoft would probably argue it's nothing more than coincidence. It would fall on you to find enough circumstantial evidence and/or corroborating data from other Microsoft users that would allow a reasonable and prudent person to reach a conclusion of fact that Microsoft's update(s) were responsible.
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20 Feb 2011   #14
severedsolo

Windows 7 Ultimate X64 SP1
 
 

Not to mention that everytime an update is released, someone somewhere has an issue with installing it. Very hard to prove at the end of the day, as no two machine's are the same
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20 Feb 2011   #15
mr pc

Windows 7
 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by marsmimar View Post
Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by mr pc View Post
For example - if this update just happened (which I did find 2 critical windows updates but have coincidentally also run into a NEW S.M.A.R.T HD failure- how can I prove or disprove complicity with the update? I could very well be under the impression that this error (critical and a massive headache nonetheless) quite possibly correlates to their secret update.

So how would I or anyone else go about that?
Microsoft would probably argue it's nothing more than coincidence. It would fall on you to find enough circumstantial evidence and/or corroborating data from other Microsoft users that would allow a reasonable and prudent person to reach a conclusion of fact that Microsoft's update(s) were responsible.
And that is where the end user is SOL if there is a connection regardless of their knowledge or capability to prove so - MS can arbitrarily and blindly send out a hidden update with little to no regard for the system it is being delivered to. That is Dangerous and proves without a doubt that they can be held complicit for the shear fact that they are doing it with little to no knowledge of the kind of system they are attempting to alter.

Just because it has 4 wheels doesn't mean it takes unleaded gas - ya know what I mean?
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20 Feb 2011   #16
marsmimar

Microsoft Community Contributor Award Recipient

 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by mr pc View Post
And that is where the end user is SOL if there is a connection regardless of their knowledge or capability to prove so - MS can arbitrarily and blindly send out a hidden update with little to no regard for the system it is being delivered to. That is Dangerous and proves without a doubt that they can be held complicit for the shear fact that they are doing it with little to no knowledge of the kind of system they are attempting to alter.

Just because it has 4 wheels doesn't mean it takes unleaded gas - ya know what I mean?
I completely agree with what you're saying. Unfortunately, Microsoft is altering an operating system and it can't be responsible about how the consumers (you and me) are using that operating system or on what machine. Anymore than an automotive manufacturer can control what the consumer does to the vehicle once it leaves the dealer's showroom floor.

And speaking of dealers (just to continue the automotive analogy) many times a manufacturer releases service bulletins telling dealers that the next time a particular vehicle comes in for service, go ahead and change out part abc with newer part xyz. It's not something that requires a full-blown recall or even a letter to the buyer. It's simply the manufacturer "doing the right thing" to patch his product at no cost to the consumer. If I find out that my dealer replaced abc with xyz without my knowledge or consent, and I'm leasing my vehicle from the dealer, then I think it could be successfully argued that the dealer had the absolute right to keep his vehicle patched. If you bought your vehicle and the dealer patches it without your knowledge or consent, and something subsequently breaks, you'd still have to be able to show a cause and effect relationship.
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20 Feb 2011   #17
mr pc

Windows 7
 
 

Difference between a mechanic and MS sending blind updates/changes to an OS

The mechanic CAN see what he is working on

And Once again if MS is not required to prove that their actions did not cause the problem when they are the ones who did something unknowing to the end user then that is reason why end users should be concerned, they have NO defense and could very well lose a great portion of their lives (many adults nowadays have massive amounts of their lives invested in their computers) because of it.

It is bullshit that favors the ones who have the power period.

I have this error after running the IE9 update - coincidence? Why should I think that?
I know that the IE9 wasn't a secret patch - but it was labeled as important so I thought initially it would benefit the security of IE
I am now wasting a TON of my time backing up my system and contemplating what to do next.


Attached Thumbnails
Microsoft Explains and Defends Silent Fixes-crap.jpg  
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20 Feb 2011   #18
steve-pressman

Windows 7 Ultimate 64 - OEM Service Pack 1
 
 

You know I would rather Microsoft do what they do than face the possibility that my PC is laid bare for all to come along and hack it.

There is no such thing as a perfect OS and if people find exploits I for one am glad that MS are working on them and closing them as and when discovered, Paranoia about MS is abundant the world over, maybe we should all go back to using an Abacus can't get hacked on that.

I for one always make a weekly Image of my system if things do go pear shaped after a secret push I always have that to go back to.

Steve
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20 Feb 2011   #19
sreedhav

MS Windows 7 Home Premium 64-bit SP1
 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by mr pc View Post
hmm...this is a very slippery slope

As consumers do we have the right to inquire as to what these fixes are? And if so - how does that protect against hacking - for a hacker could ask the same.

If they can do this without warning/liability who knows what they can put on personal, public, and corporate machines/servers without permission.

And what happens if they damage the OS/machine(s)?

Is the enduser SOL?
Dear MR PC,
You said it! A REP. point is humming your way! We know that google collects info' of different varieties via all the three types of cookies. Three weeks back, i bought "CleanGoogle" for 5$( sort of a garage sale) and it is a program which alerts us via sounds, pop-ups, etc whenever Google ad-cookies are on the PC! Now it costs you 14$!
Whenever i used Google chrome browser, the number of cookies went up and up into the stratosphere, with beeps, sounds, alert messages and such! We value our God,Privacy and car,roughly in that order, don't we?

So,you can imagine what a database MS has on each and everyone of us! THANX for patiently reading my rants

Regards,
Sreedhav

PS: I can't locate any scales on the right upper end of the post ,not only yours, but everybody else!
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21 Feb 2011   #20
marsmimar

Microsoft Community Contributor Award Recipient

 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by sreedhav View Post
PS: I can't locate any scales on the right upper end of the post ,not only yours, but everybody else!
Ability to rep has been disabled due to over repping for non-helpful posts.

See first note in this tutorial.

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 Microsoft Explains and Defends Silent Fixes




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