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Windows 7: Microsoft Documents "Windows 7 Upgrade Paths"

22 Jul 2009   #21
Muad Dib

XP Pro & Vista Home Premium (x86); Windows Ultimate 7600 x64 Retail
 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by Joshatdot View Post
Can I XP Pro SP3 to W7 Pro ?
Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by Mark Phelps View Post
This thread, in the first post, clearly indicates that an upgrade from the RC to the released version is not supported, but other threads say that MS says it IS supported. So, what is the real story?
Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by DJG View Post
Swarfega, I am assuming by "upgrade path" you are refering to in-place upgrade of currently installed software, no? Maybe you should clarify that so it doesn't get mistaken for using the upgrade package to install WIn7 if you have one of the qualifying MS OS's. Might avoid a bunch of unnecessary posts (like this one ).


I think you just redefined the word "well" . Maybe "as originally intended by the authors" might be more appropriate ...
MS has totally dropped the ball in their own PR and marketing on this issue. Their own blogs/forums and press releases cannot/will not define the difference between a technical "In-Place" (Dirty) upgrade versus a "Clean" install and an "Upgrade License" versus a "Full License" and how the terms and definitions interact.

If the MS document Swarfega provides a copy of in the first post (available from MS's own site) is explaining "In-Place" (Dirty) upgrade paths, then it is stating that Vista Home Premium can, technically, be "In-Place" upgraded to W7 Home Premium and W7 Ultimate BUT NOT W7 PRO?

That makes NO sense logically from a technical point.

I assume that a CLEAN INSTALL is ALWAYS an OPTION. Or is that also too technically logical?

If the document is supposed to be an UPGRADE LICENSE path, again it makes no sense. Vista Home Premium LICENSE can be UPGRADED to a W7 Home Premium License OR a W7 Ultimate License? MS has NOT offered any W7 Ultimate Upgrade LICENSE, have they?

The document appears to not explain either a Technical Upgrade path or a License Upgrade path with any consistency to itself and contradicts previous statements contained in other MS publications and blog/forum posts.

It only adds to the confusion as illustrated by the questions from the above SevenForums Posters.

I have watched as a thread on a Technet Forum was closed because of confusion created by this same issue and an MS Representative could not sort out the confusion either.

Based on MS's poor communication skills and explanations to date I am leery that nobody will know for sure until the Upgrade Kit boxes are on the shelves.

Come on MS! Get your sh*t together on this and don't screw the pooch!


My System SpecsSystem Spec
.
22 Jul 2009   #22
wwoods

Vista64
 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by bobtran View Post
I am aware of this fact...however I would point out
Home Premium $49 - Professional $99 (Dbl the Price) - Ultimate $219 (Dbl the Price).

Home Premium to Home Premium - ok
Home Premium to ultimate - ok
XP pro to Professional - ok

Home Premium to professional - NOT ok

If Microsoft wishes to allow XP Pro to upgrade to Professional then at Dbl the cost of Home Premium, users should be able to upgrade to Professional. Home Premium was the most distributed OS due to the OEM's and M$ has specifically excluded these users only from this upgrade. I was just pointing out that Microsoft is not the friendlier/softer company that a lot of people have been posting about lately. They are continuing to be rather preditory to the users who are their customers. Don't kid yourself.


want some cheese ?

Seriousely...no one is FORCING you to upgrade. if you dont like the price, dont upgrade. MS owes you a big fat

....wait for it......

NOTHING.
My System SpecsSystem Spec
22 Jul 2009   #23
wwoods

Vista64
 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by Muad Dib View Post
MS has totally dropped the ball in their own PR and marketing on this issue. Their own blogs/forums and press releases cannot/will not define the difference between a technical "In-Place" (Dirty) upgrade versus a "Clean" install and an "Upgrade License" versus a "Full License" and how the terms and definitions interact.

If the MS document Swarfega provides a copy of in the first post (available from MS's own site) is explaining "In-Place" (Dirty) upgrade paths, then it is stating that Vista Home Premium can, technically, be "In-Place" upgraded to W7 Home Premium and W7 Ultimate BUT NOT W7 PRO?

That makes NO sense logically from a technical point.

I assume that a CLEAN INSTALL is ALWAYS an OPTION. Or is that also too technically logical?

If the document is supposed to be an UPGRADE LICENSE path, again it makes no sense. Vista Home Premium LICENSE can be UPGRADED to a W7 Home Premium License OR a W7 Ultimate License? MS has NOT offered any W7 Ultimate Upgrade LICENSE, have they?

The document appears to not explain either a Technical Upgrade path or a License Upgrade path with any consistency to itself and contradicts previous statements contained in other MS publications and blog/forum posts.

It only adds to the confusion as illustrated by the questions from the above SevenForums Posters.

I have watched as a thread on a Technet Forum was closed because of confusion created by this same issue and an MS Representative could not sort out the confusion either.

Based on MS's poor communication skills and explanations to date I am leery that nobody will know for sure until the Upgrade Kit boxes are on the shelves.

Come on MS! Get your sh*t together on this and don't screw the pooch!



The upgrade path seems pretty strait forward to me......
My System SpecsSystem Spec
.

22 Jul 2009   #24
Muad Dib

XP Pro & Vista Home Premium (x86); Windows Ultimate 7600 x64 Retail
 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by wwoods View Post


The upgrade path seems pretty strait forward to me......
Which one?
My System SpecsSystem Spec
22 Jul 2009   #25
bobtran

Windows 7 Ultimate x64
 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by wwoods View Post


want some cheese ?

Seriousely...no one is FORCING you to upgrade. if you dont like the price, dont upgrade. MS owes you a big fat

....wait for it......

NOTHING.
What are you talking about. I wasn't talking/complaining about the price. I simply stated my distaste for the posted upgrade paths or rather the preditory exclusions to those upgrade paths.

Also.... for your information I HAVE already order my copies of Windows 7 Home Premium which is my chosen OS. I didn't say I wouldn't use it, I simply pointed out a rather glaring inconsistency in Microsoft's licensing practices and anyone who has worked in a large Microsoft Data Center can tell you loads about how poor/convoluted Microsoft's licensing agreements are.

So sure...send me the cheese but you can thank people who voiced displeasure with Microsoft for your

Wait for it......

Cheap upgrades.
My System SpecsSystem Spec
22 Jul 2009   #26
DJG

 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by bobtran View Post
I am aware of this fact...however I would point out
Home Premium $49 - Professional $99 (Dbl the Price) - Ultimate $219 (Dbl the Price).

Home Premium to Home Premium - ok
Home Premium to ultimate - ok
XP pro to Professional - ok

Home Premium to professional - NOT ok

If Microsoft wishes to allow XP Pro to upgrade to Professional then at Dbl the cost of Home Premium, users should be able to upgrade to Professional. Home Premium was the most distributed OS due to the OEM's and M$ has specifically excluded these users only from this upgrade. I was just pointing out that Microsoft is not the friendlier/softer company that a lot of people have been posting about lately. They are continuing to be rather preditory to the users who are their customers. Don't kid yourself.
You can use the HP, Prof or Ultimate upgrade package against any XP edition. They have to be a clean install - you cannot do in-place upgrade of any XP edition.
My System SpecsSystem Spec
22 Jul 2009   #27
bobtran

Windows 7 Ultimate x64
 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by DJG View Post
You can use the HP, Prof or Ultimate upgrade package against any XP edition. They have to be a clean install - you cannot do in-place upgrade of any XP edition.
True...But you can STILL upgrade to Professional. Why does my pointing this out irritate so many people. Its simply a fact that Microsoft will not allow users to upgrade (in-place or clean) from Vista Home Premium to Win7 Professional. Home users who wanted the Windows Media Center in Vista were forced into ether Home Premium or Ultimate and at the cost many people opted for Home Premium. Now Microsoft offers Windows Media Center on the Professional edition but still keeps RDP out of home versions forcing people to buy a full product or upgrade to Ultimate. Either way its over $200 to get the functionality that was removed in Vista and as RDP is needed to make full use of Windows Home Server I find it somewhat reprehensible that Microsoft will NOT allow the upgrade path to Professional. This is my opinion and I don't expect anyone else to necessarily agree with me but I also don't think it is wrong to point this out. The fact that Windows Home Server is geared towards the average home user but professional or Ultimate is required to fully implement it just rubs me the wrong way and it smacks of the same old behavior from Microsoft that people have been complaining about for years. Microsoft has been trying to convince people that they have changed their ways and this is just proof that nothing has really changed. Further...while there is a certain amount of functionality that the home user might find useful in the professional edition I don't believe that there is anything in Ultimate that isn't in Professional that would justify the average home user needing to pay the difference and I think Microsoft figured this out and thats why Vista Home Premium users are locked out of upgrading to Professional but are allowed to upgrade to Ultimate.
Again this is just my opinion and I don't ask anyone else to agree with me although I do see some outrage across the Net about this exact issue.

Edit...I DOES look like upgrading Vista Home Premium to Win7 Professional is an option but you will have to do a "Clean" install and not the simple upgrade. Not sure why this is as it is technically from a lower level to a higher level upgrade so just adding on additional services. but it doesn't really matter...Microsoft says you can do it and thats all that matters. Just wish I would have ordered 1 copy of Professional at the discount. Might just have to purchase Vista ultimate x64 OEM w/win7 Ultimate upgrade coupon for $189 from NewEgg.com.
My System SpecsSystem Spec
22 Jul 2009   #28
DJG

 

Where did you find the notice that you cannot use the Win 7 Pro upgrade package to do a clean install from a Vista HP license? The only restriction I have seen is for in-place upgrades so far. Just curious.
My System SpecsSystem Spec
22 Jul 2009   #29
bobtran

Windows 7 Ultimate x64
 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by DJG View Post
Where did you find the notice that you cannot use the Win 7 Pro upgrade package to do a clean install from a Vista HP license? The only restriction I have seen is for in-place upgrades so far. Just curious.
1st post in this thread states:

Cross-SKU upgrades (i.e. Windows 7 N to Windows 7 K) are NOT supported.

and

Upgrading from Windows Vista to Windows 7
Windows Vista Home Premium --> can be upgraded to --> Window 7 Home Premium, or Ultimate

Microsoft has detailed the fact that XP upgrades to Win7 must be a clean install. If they permitted a clean upgrade install of Professional I'm sure they would have also documented this fact but they specifically exclude Professional in the upgrade paths either in-place or clean.

This same info is on other official Microsoft sites. If I am wrong then I'm sure that someone from Microsoft can clear it up and I would be glad to be wrong...but at this point I don't believe that I am. I have worked in too many Microsoft shops and Data Centers with the convoluted licensing that this entails. I am clearly not talking about the Vista Dbl install method. This may or may not work but is definitely NOT a supported process.

Edit....Vista Home Premium X64 can be "Clean Install" upgraded to Win7 Professional. so my rant kind of bites ME on the ass. I would point out that the upgrade matrix paths were available to M$ before the sale and could have been released to allow a decicion to be make as to the acceptability of this path at the point of purchase.
My System SpecsSystem Spec
22 Jul 2009   #30
DJG

 

I have a feeling you can probably do a clean install upgrade, as you point out it makes no sense.

OTOH, why not try now, at least to see if it kicks back? Use the 7000.16385 image to at least try and get the clean install process started and see if it gets going. You can always stop at the point where you get to choose the target partition. The behavior should be the same as to be expected in October. I know it wouldn't let me in-place update an Ultimate install with a HP in-place upgrade, but HP to HP was OK.
My System SpecsSystem Spec
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 Microsoft Documents "Windows 7 Upgrade Paths"




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