Microsoft launches new preWindows7 anti-Linux offensive

Hi there
I like linux too -- I use a Linux server for all sorts of purposes - especially as a file and printer server, multimedia streaming , my Internet gateway and firewall which means I can leave out things like firewalls and AV software on the windows box which speeds it up no end.

However it's not as easy to get all the bits working -- you do need a certain amount of knowlege and be prepared to put up with a bit of "Trial and Error".

A Customised Linux system will IMO always run rings around a Windows system - but that's the whole point - Windows will nearly always work "straight out of the box" for the large majority of people who just take their machine home, unpack it and switch it on.

Windows is EXCELLENT at what it does - Linux is also excellent at what it does as well -- but these are really OS'es designed for different purposes.

When the "average joe" buys a computer the installed OS is not a significant part of the cost in any case. As Windows images can be installed by OEM's very easily on 1000's of machines its cheaper in any case for the OEM to supply a machine with Windows on it.

Once you get into the realms of Linux you have to think of Distros, kernel releases, software management packages etc etc.

Many applications whilst they work fine with one distro don't work with another one or or have to be compiled from source.

Upgrading software on most Linux systems is STILL not for the fainthearted -- some progress is being made but its still not like Windows update.

I and loads of people on this board are quite happy to spend the extra time with Linux systems to get them to run properly but your typical user won't do this -- and just imagine the chaos a user can cause on a Linux system if he types sudo rm - r / or other commands like that.

Cheers
jimbo

jimbo45 said:

However it's not as easy to get all the bits working -- you do need a certain amount of knowlege and be prepared to put up with a bit of "Trial and Error".

Over the past few years, my Ubuntu installs have worked pretty much flawlessly out of the box on my custom built boxes at home and my Dell E6400 laptop (even the wireless).

jimbo45 said:

Many applications whilst they work fine with one distro don't work with another one or or have to be compiled from source.

Most of the applications that a general user is going to use is going to be included within the distributions repositories. So, for something like Ubuntu, you just open the Synaptic package manager, search for it, select it and it installs.

jimbo45 said:

Upgrading software on most Linux systems is STILL not for the fainthearted -- some progress is being made but its still not like Windows update.

I disagree. On average machines with average hardware....the update process is drop dead simple. Ubuntu automatically scans for updates, tells you when they are available and installs just as easily as Windows update. With some distros, I have experienced problems with updates...but with other distros I've had very few issues. And with distros like Ubuntu, I pick the Nividia driver for my video card and and install that restricted driver and whenever I do my updates, Ubuntu takes care of making sure the kernel module is there. I've never had to manually fix my Nvidia drivers under Ubuntu

In fact, I usually love these package manager systems as you can get 95% of the software that you want from 1 place. Don't have to search all over the net and download packages. I'd love the ability to go into Add Remove Programs and check boxes for 7zip, open office, vlc, mse, mysql, apache, etc and just have it installed all in 1 shot...with the latest compatible versions.


Don't get me wrong, I'm not suggesting that most people should switch over to Linux. I think the majority of Windows users are quite satisfied with their experience. But I also don't find many Linux distros as daunting as some people like to make out for simple user tasks.

Hi there.

the problem is if you are an OEM - what Linux distro would you ship -- you certainly wouldn't want to ship machines with different distros -- your customer service would be inundated with calls from day 1.

Also you'd have to obtain and build the installation disks.

This also is likely to confuse the average user -- one would have to chose Ubuntu, SUSE / Novell, Fedora, Mandriva or Red Hat as the main ones but there are a load of others.

With Windows - its simple - MS just sends the OEM package out - job done.

Whilst things like ubuntu are certainly MUCH easier than they used to be I think the problems of large OEM's supplying pre-installed Linux systems for the general user is not likely to happen simply for cost / manpower effort - even though the OS and apps are in the main open source (and hence free).

The only exceptions you'll find is when say someone like Dell has a contract to supply say a Local authority with 500 machines with Linux pre-installed.

MS is really barking up the wrong tree here in ranting against Linux -- W7 is good enough to stand up in its own right.

(Slightly OT - but there will be a general election in the UK soon -- I'm currently on contract here - but I hope that each major party will set out its own stall and not spend the whole time slagging off their opponents -- I only bring this up because this whole bash of MS against linux seems to be just that - instead of extolling W7's features just bash the opposition --100% negative campaigning and is usually never effective).

anyway time for a final beer and bedtime -- Monday AM working again.

Cheers
jimbo

Given the amount of vitriol spouted by Linux users against MS over the years, I really don't begrudge them having a pop back.

This move is undoubtedly because Linux Netbooks are making it into the mainstream. MS has every right commercially to try to point out the flaws of its competitor to buyers, particularly the type of buyer who uses the shop retail sector this initiative is aimed at.

This clearly isn't aimed at current Linux users (who would never dream of buying their hardware in Walmart anyway!), but at the sort of people brought up only to know Windows who may be tempted to move to Linux due to price concerns etc. Quite clearly Linux is still way behind in the user experience stakes for this sort of user.

The sort of person who inhabits this forum however is much more likely to appreciate that Linux is better than Windows in certain 'specialised applications'.

jimbo45 said:

the problem is if you are an OEM - what Linux distro would you ship -- you certainly wouldn't want to ship machines with different distros -- your customer service would be inundated with calls from day 1.

Yes, this would be a very tough thing on the OEM's. Not to mention, Linux distros do come out all of the time...so their inventory and shipping systems would be changing all of the time.

The average person who might use Linux would also have to have somebody like me come over and install it for them and show them the ropes for a bit. But the average person...like my neighbor, wouldn't be able to re-install Windows either.

TheSchaft said:

IMHO (and nobody asked I know) *inux is just coming out of the "shade tree mechanic" mode - they are still like PCs were with DOS back in the day, to a large extent.

And as a Linux fan, I don't see it really ever coming out of this stage completely. That's the beauty of the system is that you can have it any way you want it. That's a very different philosophy than Windows which you can have the way that MS wants you to have it. For most people, they accept this and just move on and use the computer. But for the Linux community, the passion to create unique and individualized distros is not going to die down and nobody is going to agree on 1 standard. And personally, I don't see anything wrong with that.

TheSchaft said:

Connect to the home network that's running Windows 7? Connect to the NAS? Ummmm... not so much. I'm sure there is a way, but why bother? Windows 7 finds and connects automagically, and that is the key.

And sadly enough...the level of automagic configurations is the primary reason why Windows has so many vulnerabilities. Far too many Windows "server admins" out there who click around and manage to get a web server, mail server or SQL server configured who know absolutely nothing about security it, applying patches or keeping it running efficiently. Fortunately with Linux hosts, you don't usually just "accidentally" get something to work. Instead, you have to read a bit about it, learn how to do it, and usually in the end you are better equipped to troubleshoot and support it.

TheSchaft said:

Joe Sixpack just wants the freaking thing to work. He doesn't care how, or why - just let him send email to Momma and surf for pictures of .... flowers.

You know, I happen to live next door to "Joe Sixpack", and he comes over every now and then with all kinds of unexplained problems on his computer. I go over and look at it, and he's got all kinds of stuff installed that he claims, "I didn't install", or "that just showed up one day". Or he says, "hey I got this email and I clicked this link and then I got this error and now everytime I do X...Y happens". So much for the beauty of the stuff which "automagically" happens.

TheSchaft said:

Finally, and please bear with me for a moment - Imagine you're running a business. Would you want your IT guy to offer to put "Jaunty Jackalope" on your desktops, or would you go for something called Windows 7?

I'd fire any IT guy that referred to the OS by the codename...that IT guy would say, I'm going to install Ubuntu...which doesn't sound any different than Windows. Of course, going on that example, that same IT guy, wouldn't install Windows 7...he would be installing either "blackcomb" or "vienna"