More Than 3 Out of 4 Enthusiasts Reject Windows 8

gregrocker said:

What has boggled me more than anything is how MS execs seem to lack real appreciation for the monumental achievement which is Win7. Even Vista was rescued by Win7 advancements rushed into it's SP1, nearly absolving the company of that debacle after many average Users don't remember what a showstopper it was on the hardware of that time.

To my mind Win7 is the greatest achievement in Tech history - perfect Desktop Experience, never hangs, featherlight and instantaneous with a good install on adequate hardware.

Absent any real and deep appreciation for it by MS leadership, Windows 7 advocacy falls to the Forums which bear its name and where it's truest potential has been fully realized since before it was even released.

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It is, it seems to me that I'm always just a tiny mouse movement click or two away from what I want. Every now and then, even those mouse gestures they came up with on Win 7 desktop come in handy. I know they are there in Win 8, but in Win 7 they are a natural fit. Because it is a desktop OS for a desktop (maybe semi-mobile) computer.

I subconsciously don't like Windows 8 for all the mouse gymnastics it wants you to do (although we may find in two years that it is the cure for the carpal tunnel syndrome ). I like the syncing and automatic login to services, and the connectiveness of the applications, but that is not enough for me to like it.

And the nuts and bolts screwed wrong, oh don't let me get started. EG! In Windows 7 tray notifications stay there, visible, until you move the mouse. In Windows 8 they go away - into nowhere. If you weren't there to see them, too bad. You might see a tiny number on a tile, then again you might not.

Windows 8 should be a natural fit for a tablet, yet it is not - it is too resource hungry, it takes up too much space on the disk, an the enhanced desktop is not fit for a tablet. Yet you require it (!!!) to do certain things, even on a tablet. The paradox just keeps getting bigger...
Another one:

Windows 8 Photo App
In Windows 8 Photos, how do I move a photo to another Folder? How do I name a photo? How do I name a Folder?
.....
Barb Bowman replied on April 11, 2013
MVP Community Star
do it from the classic desktop/explorer/libraries interface. you can't do much
of anything from the Windows store Photos App except view your pictures.
Barb

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See?

And now we know it is not getting traction anywhere. Not on a PC, not on a tablet, not even on a hybrid. A dead end.

.....and that's the point you're all making (should never start a sentence with a conjunction but couldn't express myself with another). We're all living in the FaceBook age (which I won't touch with the proverbial 39 and a half foot pole) like it or not. Those out there that don't build their own systems, don't like to tinker, after seeing reports on the CBC,CTV and Global, unlike us, are more motivated to use smartphones and tablets and may no longer be attracted to our 'bulky' PCs or even laptops any more because they want speed of use in grabbing information or communication. Leaving, we old farts, in their dust, in short, we may become the minority.

As Scotty said,
"Keyboard? How quaint!"

King Arthur said:

I believe we the older generations, especially those of us who are parents and/or in positions of education, have a responsibility to teach our kids and younger peers that disseminating their personal information willy nilly like most are doing now can carry very dire consequences in the real world.

I occasionally read news reports about a child telling her friends on FB about her birthday party and then having that little bit of information get out of control such that the results might even be traumatic, and I can't help but ask why such things had to happen. And even worse, this is still very mild compared to more serious (and very real) threats like identity theft and various forms of harrassment which can have long-term consequences!

Surely we as a society can do better than this, especially since most of us grew up being told by our parents to be careful of strangers.

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As a parent who raised two kids I can promise you I've given all sorts of speeches about internet (now cyber space) safety; however, they like us, have to learn their own way. And in today's society, it's cool to be on the social networks.

With that, the only thing we as parents can do is remind them that if they are going be using social media is to be very careful of what they post. I think most get that, but problems stem from a multitude of hidden and ever changing tracking devices and security features even savvy users can’t keep up with.

And if you have a cellphone, even more info is gathered. This has led to info not intended to be publically available being made available. Don't believe me... try to Google yourself. You’d be surprised to see what's out there on you.

Add to that, that some (most) governments secretly require tracking features in cyber space, as well as on personal devices such as cellphones. Where does it end, who knows?

My point in all this is we've grown to be oblivious to all of this and just go on with our lives. I myself have taken the attitude to always be vigilant in the cyber world but be aware you are tracked.

It's not about being paranoid, its being aware of what’s out there and moving on with life. People need understand that if they use any type of computer or electronic device, they are being tracked and catalogued. Welcome to the new age... Information

My two cents.

One needs to draw a line in the sand as to what feels confortable to them. If a big corporatoin says "jump" the response should not by "how high" but "why". If the request does not make sense then you don't do it. Public push back is important in making corporations listen to consumer need. Companies should be willing to listen to its customers if they want to keep their customers. As a result of the "deal with it" comment made by a Microsoft employee and the public disapproval of the remark the employee no longer works for Microsoft. Is this the start of Microsoft finally starting to listen to its customers or just Microsoft disciplining an employee for not being tactful?

That's easier said than done because most consumers don't know what they want until it's introduced and marketed. Sure every now and then there's blowback, but for the most part, 9 of 10 they get it right.

Where 8 and it's iterations go is to early to tell, but I'm betting it'll eventually move forward. Especially if touch screens become the norm.

just Microsoft disciplining an employee for not being tactful

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That is what it is.

MS have decided to force people into the phone UI.

That will provide them with more control and revenue.

If the customers resist long enough and hard enough - maybe that will make a difference.

On the other hand, if MS can swallow the cost, wait it out, keep spending - the average Joe may just give in.

I am sure there is big market for tablet/phone objects.

Not sure what your point is.

Looks like most are buying something cheap that does the job.

Some will pay more for the high end Apple ( or Samsung ) brand experience.

Where does the 8 jack of all trades fit in?

Lone Browncoat said:

.....and that's the point you're all making (should never start a sentence with a conjunction but couldn't express myself with another). We're all living in the FaceBook age (which I won't touch with the proverbial 39 and a half foot pole) like it or not. Those out there that don't build their own systems, don't like to tinker, after seeing reports on the CBC,CTV and Global, unlike us, are more motivated to use smartphones and tablets and may no longer be attracted to our 'bulky' PCs or even laptops any more because they want speed of use in grabbing information or communication. Leaving, we old farts, in their dust, in short, we may become the minority.

As Scotty said,
"Keyboard? How quaint!"

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SIW2 said:

just Microsoft disciplining an employee for not being tactful

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That is what it is.

MS have decided to force people into the phone UI.

That will provide them with more control and revenue.

If the customers resist long enough and hard enough - maybe that will make a difference.

On the other hand, if MS can swallow the cost, wait it out, keep spending - the average Joe may just give in.

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While I do agree Microsoft is "edging" consumers toward a different UI experience, I wouldn't use the word forced as we do have choices.

That said, yes, there is no other choice but Win 8 when purchasing a new machine, I myself just bought a notebook with no choice but Win 8, but there is still the choice of replacing 8 with 7 installed should you choose to do so.

And last I checked, you can still purchase Windows 7, even at Microsoft's own store - Microsoft US Online Store - Buy and download Windows 7 Ultimate, Home Premium, Professional, added security features

As for Win 7 support, I don't expect that to suddenly drop, and by the time it does run out, I'll probably be ready for a new OS anyway. Assuming I hadn't already replaced it with 8, especially once Blue hits.

At any rate being that my notebook come with 8, it gave me a chance to see what the OS was all about. Sure, it takes some getting used to, but once there, it's all good.

Perhaps this is what Microsoft intends to do, provide you the opportunity to try it out for yourself. If you like it, keep it, if not, there's still Windows 7.

And by the time Windows 7 goes completely dead, the masses will have either accepted 8, or Microsoft will have moved in a new direction. So the way I see it, there are choices as of now: 7 or 8.

You have a funny idea of choice.

Buy another license - in addition to the one you already paid for with the machine.

It is possible to find machines with 7 on them- often hidden away in the business machines headings. But Joe public doesn't know that. It is also possible to buy a Mac - if you can afford it.

It is also possible to hang on to what you already have - until it gets too creaky, or breaks.

What Is This?

Not one to kick someone when they are down, but here goes.

Windows 8: Global PC shipments fell by 13.9 percent in the first quarter of 2013, and according to analyst firm IDC , Windows 8 could very well be the reason after a slew of controversial decisions such as killing the Start button.

SIW2 said:

It is possible to find machines with 7 on them- often hidden away in the business machines headings. But Joe public doesn't know that. It is also possible to buy a Mac - if you can afford it.

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That's a bit presumptuous as there are actually people out there who do, do the research on what they want. Sometimes it just comes to the options. In my case, yeah, I could have got a Windows 7 machine, but for what I wanted, and needed, the caveat was it came with Windows 8. Since I wasn't so afraid of the big buggy man they call 8, I took that caveat.

At any rate I can't agree with all your assessments so we'll agree to disagree agreeably. I'm still going to post my thoughts, you'll post yours, but I don't think well be in total agreement here.

And though I'll agree Windows 8 has it's downs, some of the stuff posted here is just plain fear and FUD.

Sorry.

sygnus21 said:

SIW2 said:

It is possible to find machines with 7 on them- often hidden away in the business machines headings. But Joe public doesn't know that. It is also possible to buy a Mac - if you can afford it.

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That's a bit presumptuous as there are actually people out there who do, do the research on what they want. Sometimes it just comes to the options. In my case, yeah, I could have got a Windows 7 machine, but for what I wanted, and needed, the caveat was it came with Windows 8. Since I wasn't so afraid of the big buggy man they call 8, I took that caveat.

At any rate I can't agree with all your assessments so we'll agree to disagree agreeably. I'm still going to post my thoughts, you'll post yours, but I don't think well be in total agreement here.

And though I'll agree Windows 8 has it's downs, some of the stuff posted here is just plain fear and FUD.

Sorry.

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I don't think there is anything to be sorry about?
You are just giving a balanced perspective. Can you share with us some of the specific values of W8 as a desktop OS from your perspective?

In a nutshell the performance is just as good if not better than 7, and once you get past the metro screen, and get used to navigating around the OS, it's just like Windows 7. One thing I do like is the way the new Windows Explorer works. You have more options to do things. Some of the integrated apps are nice, a quick click here and there gets you where you want to be, although I do hate the metro look. You really do have to play around with it to see for yourself.

As I said before, I was a hater until I played with it myself. Am I ready to replace Win 7 with it, not just yet, but I can tell you it has nothing to do with performance.

Anyway everyone has their opinions on what's what with the OS and that's fine. I just don't get how some can legitimately criticize something they've not used.

sygnus21 said:

...I just don't get how some can legitimately criticize something they've not used.

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By reading reviews (actual reviews, not just complaints) and watching demos.

SIW2 said:

I am sure there is big market for tablet/phone objects.

Not sure what your point is.

Looks like most are buying something cheap that does the job.

Some will pay more for the high end Apple ( or Samsung ) brand experience.

Where does the 8 jack of all trades fit in?

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SIW2 that "jack of all trades" brings up an excellent point; The old saying is "Jack of all Trades and Master of None".
Thats a good description of W8. One OS can't be all things to all people and it shouldn't be expected to, but that's what Microsoft is attempting to do.

That's why so many people are unhappy about W8. W8 is not a master of the desktop, not even close. The problem isn't with fellow enthusiasts whether they agree or disagree, the blame belongs to Microsoft for pushing an ill-advised product off on the industry.
Instead of arguing amongst themselves, enthusiasts' arguments should be with M$ for replacing an excellent desktop OS with a one size fits all, Jack Of All Trades OS that falls well short of the mark!

I actually used Windows 8 preview for several months on a virtual machine and spent at least 30 to 40 hours trying to like it. I found the more I used it the less I liked it. The only way it was tolerable was to make it like Windows 7 and if I was going to do that then who needs it.

Microsoft's stock slides after dismal PC shipment reports

Several Wall Street analysts downgrade the stock



Computerworld - Microsoft's stock took a beating in trading today after a pair of research firms said PC shipments in the first quarter were down as much as 14% from the year before.
As of 4 p.m. ET, shares of Microsoft were down nearly 5% to $28.82.


...Without Windows, and its dominant position among operating systems, the thinking goes, Office sells next to no suites and Server and Tools may as well shut the doors.


"Windows is the driver [for Microsoft's revenue]," Moorhead said in an interview last week. If Windows sales slide because PC sales have badly slumped -- and they look likely to languish for the foreseeable future -- the rest of Microsoft may follow, albeit not immediately.

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Microsoft's stock slides after dismal PC shipment reports - Computerworld

PaulGo said:

I actually used Windows 8 preview for several months on a virtual machine and spent at least 30 to 40 hours trying to like it. I found the more I used it the less I liked it. The only way it was tolerable was to make it like Windows 7 and if I was going to do that then who needs it.

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I used it for over 1 year and am still using it. Made even a dozen tutorials at the time of CP. And I can certainly deal with it as well as the enthusiasts. But I still don't like it and won't use it as my production system. I'll just wait until M$ comes to their senses. And if that does not happen, I still have Mint which works great.

What does "MS come to their senses" mean to you?

I've given this a lot of thought and the only way out I see with the company collapsing over its abandon of the perfect desktop experience (their greatest strength) is to immediately give UPgrade rights to Win7 to all OEMs who were ill-advisedly forced to sell Win8 on new PC's which aren't selling as a result.

The OEM's can dole out these Upgrades to their service centers and even the retailers. Today the Geek Squad in my Best Buy told me the machines sitting untouched will start selling again if they could put Win7 on them overnight. Let Win8 ship with touchscreens only. If users want it on their desktop offer 8 Downgrade rights with new Win7 PC purchases as should have been done to begin with.

Include Win8 graphical explorer and some other improvements in Win7 SP2 that don't at all interfere with the best Desktop experience ever. And keep the ugly off of elegant Win7.

Your way or the highway is about to end up roadkill on the highway. The stock market is starting to downgrade the company, which didn't even happen with the Vista debacle which was bad enough. Win7 saved you then, and the best OS ever will save you now.

Lady Fitzgerald said:

sygnus21 said:

...I just don't get how some can legitimately criticize something they've not used.

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By reading reviews (actual reviews, not just complaints) and watching demos.

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I read review all the time, doesn't mean call crap because they say so. Yes, reading review can reveal a lot of things, but I always take reviews with a grain of salt, even if I agree. And I never ever rely on one source. I guess this is where having an open mind comes in.

That's me though