Windows designer explains why Windows 8 is such a mess

lehnerus2000 said:

King Arthur said:

Case in point: Ubuntu, Mozilla, Google, Opera, and uTorrent to name some names. All of them (and many others) are infamous for ignoring or even outright defying user wants, requirements, and demands.

You forgot GNOME.
They aren't called "the GUI Nazis" for nothing.

I knew I forgot something!

It's rather sad really. One of those devs I've mentioned, Opera, only recently went down the road of user defiance. Opera as a browser and a software suite was rather well-regarded before they moved to becoming just another Chromium fork and completely alienating their users; that move to Chromium was in my opinion Opera's start of user defiance and resulting irrelevancy today.

More recently there's the debacle of Slashdot Beta, where the Slashdot community unanimously despises the site remake with the passion of a thousand burning suns but is getting it forced upon them by Slashdot management.

I wonder what exactly is driving this push for defiance of loyal user bases, especially in cases where commercial interests aren't playing a key role, it feels like in the last couple years or so a lot of devs simply moved to not caring how illogical their trains of thoughts are nor what users think of their software.

Lady Fitzgerald said:

whs said:

I have a strategy for the future also, and it definitely does not include W8 or 8.1.

That is absolutely no problem. Everybody should do what they like. I am not a big fan of 8.1 either. But I have two 8.1 systems and it is kind of growing on me - especially since it is faster and has a smaller footprint.

On my Asis Transformer that came with only a 30GB disk it uses only half of that disk and the Atom processor performs extremely well with 8.1. I doubt that Windows 7 would do as well.

I had to use Win 8 for about a week back in late November and it also grew on me...like a wart.

jimbo45 said:

Hi there
actually the whole mobile phone type of OS is showing its limitations with the tile scrolling selection method on the latest set of smart phones / tablets -- if you load several dozen applications it becomes harder and harder to find these without an incessant amount of scrolling --remember also a lot of phones also come "equipped(?)" with a lot of bloatware too adding to the number of apps. Even scrolling 4 or 5 times irritates me beyond measure.

To suggest that this type of interface was in any way shape or form suited to a decent working DESKTOP OS was just PLAIN BONKERS. The people who designed it must have been smoking that funny smelling tobacco that you find in Amsterdam's famous coffee shops.

Windows 8.1 improves the mix a bit but for most people who want more than just simple consumption stuff on their devices then a proper OS like W7 is what's needed. W8.1 redresses the balance a bit especially with custom toolbars where you can design quite a convenient cascading menuing system without adding any 3rd party stuff.

However very few enterprises are bothering with W8/8.1 -- most I know who are upgrading their XP / W2003 systems are basing it on W7 type OS'es.

Maybe Ms will have learned by W9 -- give users the choice -- at install (or even at boot time) choose between "classical desktop" or mobile interface. With large multi screen setups that people have these days running apps in Full screen mode only is absolutely idiotic in most cases.

(example of using cascading (mult-level) menuing via custom toolbar in W8.1).

The idea also that you can create a "Vendor Lock" is also ludicrous -- people will find all sorts of ways around that -- for example many people say buy e-books from amazon and use any number of the "available tools" to de-drm stuff to use on other devices such as tablets or even phones. - I've bought books from amazon - but I happen to like my Sony e-reader better than the kindle --it also had external micro SDHC card. Well with well known tools I convert the book into epub for loading on to the Sony. -Why shouldn't I --I've paid for the book and don't want to carry extra devices around.

Cheers
jimbo

Ec;
"Maybe Ms will have learned by W9 -- give users the choice -- at install (or even at boot time) choose between "classical desktop" or mobile interface. With large multi screen setups that people have these days running apps in Full screen mode only is absolutely idiotic in most cases."

I agree with the whole post, but this got my attention :)

gregrocker said:

Is this guy still with the company? If so it might explain why there is no effort to save themselves from New Coke, doubling down on the worst product rollout disaster in history.

I also didn't want to believe that they would be trying to kill off the desktop which they'd built to perfection in Win7 for a billion customers and which drives the world economy. But Win8 sure comes close to it. Then I got my new copy of Surface Pro at MVP Summit and spent hours trying to find the Desktop - finally I came across it as the background for the Control Panel (also hidden). There it was hiding behind the Control panel, with access to it if you closed the Control Panel itself.

"""This has gotten to the point of ridiculousness, as in the ridicule being heaped on this guys explanations. The plan was nailed here by SIW2 early on: wannabe-Apple app subscription vending (except that they're crApps) eventually with the OS being subscription too. How's that workin out for ya?

Save yourselves! Give all users stuck with the Win8 phone app UPgrade rights to Win7 asap, put Win7 with SP2 (or call it WIn9) on new PC's immediately. Offer Win8 only on touchscreens, or for retail sale. This is how to begin to save yourselves, from ridicule and as a company offering more than Xbox.

"""""":)

I am still trying to submit my take, but there are some many good points here have-to-follow-to-the-end. LOL

whs said:

A software development group rarely listens to the users for the simple reason that the users are usually 5 years behind their strategy and thinking. In my 35 years of operating system development I have rarely seen customer input that was integrated into any development plan.

Now that does not mean that mistakes were not corrected. But when it came to strategy and direction, the customers had really very little influence.

I remember being on a task force where we travelled around the world in small groups during 4 weeks visiting many Fortune 500 companies. We were looking for inputs for our future product strategies - technical and Ts&Cs. The trips were very pleasant because we were often invited to lush dinners - but the inputs we received were very meager. The customers were mostely concerned with their daily problems and brought up a lot of nits and lice. But the impact on what we were doing was quasi nil.

The same happens here. MS has a strategy for the future (at least I hope so) and we are moaning about the start menu and other nits. I don't think that will impress them a lot.

I have to say bang on! Start menu came to mind here, and the dumb Down scenario.....
It took me but a moment to locate the right click option next to Metro icon lower left, to give me the navigation I needed for most of what I use a PC for. and the search function (upgrade?) on Metro
as well. I have to say I would like to see a strategy, geared to Options at boot, or in purchase of any MS/OS
W9 being as has been stated here to clean up or associate fixes (UI/metro) or streamline would be better suited. To make public a little (out of the dark) as in for "power User"

~SIX~