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Windows 7: Windows 10 versus Windows 7: Whose numbers do you trust?

13 Feb 2017   #41
ICIT2LOL

Desk1 7 Home Prem / Desk2 10 Pro / Main lap Asus ROG 10 Pro 2 laptop Toshiba 7 Pro Asus P2520 7 & 10
 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by Layback Bear View Post
I don't believe their will ever be a final version of W-10.
In my opinion W-10 users will for ever be getting Updates and Upgrades and therefor they will be resetting things forever.

Jack
I think Jack has hit the nail on the head and as for everything else hardware or software nothing is future proof. I have been in hospital for the last seven weeks so have not had the chance to get on my 10 machines to see what is going on with it but still I still prefer it to 8 or 8.1 in whatever guise it came in. Personally am still a 7 person


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13 Feb 2017   #42
ThrashZone

Win-7-Pro64bit 7-H-Prem-64bit
 
 

Hi,
Yep well I finally did put 10 on a crucial 120gb ssd for long term storage
It was a waste having 10 on a 500gb
I might go ahead this next weekend and try zorin on it instead see what steam/ Origin/ Uplay works like
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13 Feb 2017   #43
Jody Thornton

Windows 8 Professional x64
 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by Layback Bear View Post
I don't believe their will ever be a final version of W-10.
In my opinion W-10 users will for ever be getting Updates and Upgrades and therefor they will be resetting things forever.

Jack
Precisely. Microsoft has stated that more or less, Windows 10 will follow the same marketing patterning as Mac OSX. The original OS X from March 2000 is a vastly different OS than that of today (which cat is it named after this month?). But it just morphs and changes as the months and yeard go by. In fact, isn't support soon ending for the original 10240 build of Windows 10?
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13 Feb 2017   #44
Western Star

Windows 7 Home Premium 64bit
 
 

I am still using "Windows 7 Home Perium" as it is a rock solid OS and much like the interface between the operator (me).

To me "windows 8" was a taster for the touch screen market the was being developed.

As for "windows 10" that is designed for touch screen PC and taplets.

Terry.
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13 Feb 2017   #45
lehnerus2000

W7 Ultimate SP1, LM18.2 MATE, W10 Home, #All 64 bit
 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by Jody Thornton View Post
I'm running the original Windows 8 with Classic Shell. Metro-related differences aside, why do you feel the "explorer" based portion of Windows 8 is so inferior to Windows 8.1? And what is it that you feel makes 10 better? 8x seems more like Windows 7 if you ask me (just a flatter faster version)
Unless you disable the Metro rubbish, it interferes with the explorer stuff (invisible hotspots, annoying fly-outs that only appear when you aren't trying to access them).

I've only encountered corporate installs of the W8 Series (since I tried W8.1 Enterprise preview).
They don't include GUI mods, but they do include MS' stupid default settings (e.g. hidden extensions, "always combined" taskbar icons, etc.).

The W8 Series with Classic Shell may be superior to W10 without Classic Shell.

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by Layback Bear View Post
I don't believe their will ever be a final version of W-10.
In my opinion W-10 users will for ever be getting Updates and Upgrades and therefor they will be resetting things forever.
Agreed.

However MS is busy crippling/deleting options from W10, so in a few years there wont be anything to adjust.
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13 Feb 2017   #46
Jody Thornton

Windows 8 Professional x64
 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by lehnerus2000 View Post
Agreed.

However MS is busy crippling/deleting options from W10, so in a few years there wont be anything to adjust.
I wonder if Microsoft is slowly attempting to completely eradicate the "explorer" portion of Windows. PC Settings is replacing most of the Control Panel options. I'll bet one day, conventional "explorer" (or desktop) apps will run in a special mode, while we use Metro applications for everything else.
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13 Feb 2017   #47
Ascaris

Windows 7 x64
 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by lehnerus2000 View Post
You must have luckily avoided W8.

In my opinion:
  • W8.1 was a big improvement over W8
  • W10 is a big improvement over W8.1
  • W7 is still better then W10
I thought Windows 8 was probably the worst too (though I admit I've never used it; I've read all the reviews, and if anything, I'm more of a Classic Windows purist than any of the reviewers, so I'd probably hate it more than they did), but ironically, now I am keeping my eyes open in case I run across cheap Win 8.1 Pro so that I can have it on hand in 2020 when Win 7 is set to stop getting security updates. Maaaaybe Windows 10 will be decent by then, but after witnessing how MS has responded to the complaints about 10 so far, I am not betting on that at all.

Win 8.1 will buy three more years of security support at the time that 7 is set to ride off into the sunset (unless the market share is so great that MS feels compelled to extend the extended support as they did on XP). I wouldn't even like Windows 7 as much as I do if I wasn't using Classic Shell and 7+ Taskbar Tweaker, so it's a given that I'd be using them in 8/8.1 or 10, along with Old New Explorer and whatever other things I discover by then to take the "phone" out of the UI.

Since one of the changes for 8.1 allows booting directly to the desktop, I can see a path forward where I disable all of the idiotic UI bells and whistles, ending up with something that looks somewhat like 7 and somewhat like 10 dressed up to look like 7-- but without the perma-beta level of stability from the rolling release schedule (and the lack of beta testers at MS), the forced updates, Cortana, or a whole bunch of other things that make 10 less than appealing.

Windows 7 has all the features I need, so the only updates I'm really interested in are precisely the ones MS has pledged to provide during extended support ("spying" isn't one of the things they promised, but it seems we're getting it anyway). I don't want most or any of the new features MS seems to think we're all dying to have. My reaction to most of the new stuff Microsoft is hanging on Win 10 ranges from "No way do I want that nonsense on my PC" to "meh, I could take it or leave it." Even in the latter case, I'd much prefer not to have a feature that's "meh," as every change has the possibility of introducing new bugs and instability. Why risk that for a feature I'm ambivalent about (let alone one that diminishes the appeal of the product in and of itself).

As such, not getting any new features is one of the features of 7 (and 8.1 if I ever do make the move) that I value the most. No Cortana, no spying (if I keep doing the security only updates as I have been in 7), updates on my schedule, no advertising, no unwanted downloads of Candy Crush, no Cortana, no Edge, no nag to USE Edge if I try to use something else, no unwanted uninstallations of my programs, no changing my privacy settings back to max phone home whenever it wants, no removing the drivers I've carefully selected if it finds something it likes better on Windows Update...

The Win 10 UI is better than 8 out of the box, but it's still pretty poor.
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14 Feb 2017   #48
ICIT2LOL

Desk1 7 Home Prem / Desk2 10 Pro / Main lap Asus ROG 10 Pro 2 laptop Toshiba 7 Pro Asus P2520 7 & 10
 
 

Hmm Acaris mate from my own experience I would not even think about installing 8.1 it was in my mind a total nonsense and made the machine I used it on look like my tablets and phone and while I am quite happy to have that UI with those on a laptop or desktop no way.

I am unfortunately in hospital right now and so cannot send you a picture of my 10 UI setups I have on one laptop and one desktop. I have just got rid of all the nonsense that the install sets up and made the Start menu look as much like 7 as I can by just typing in the search box what I want in the Start menu and attaching it to the Start menu. For example Computer becomes This PC, Control Panel stays the same, the pics and docs libraries stay the same etc etc the only one I have not worked out yet is a quick click for the regedit.

As for the other stuff you mention yes I got rid of Cortana and all those super user features like the speech instruction stuff etc etc. I set up Chrome no problems and well the taskbar you would not know it wasn't 7.

The main worry for us is that they (Microsoft) will gradually cut down on the flexibility for want of a better term of navigating the OS in 10.
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14 Feb 2017   #49
Jody Thornton

Windows 8 Professional x64
 
 

I guess I want to defend Windows 8 here because it garners a lot of hatred (hey I initially hated it too), without even trying it. It could be a real option for those who cannot use Windows 7 anymore, for whatever reason.

So if you install Windows 8 alongside Classic Shell, it conceals all of those Metro nuisances like Charms, the Start Screen and what not. I further removed all of the metro app and package folders - so it's GONE on my system. The only time I ever see anything that's remotely metro-esque is when i see the logon screen, or when I insert a device and I'm asked what I want to do with it (a little blue Metro window comes up - but just chalk that up to a "modern" looking dialog box)

Otherwise, it's a flat faster Windows 7. And I even have some more Aero-like themes.

But the big thing for Windows 8 is - no telemetry updates, so even compared to Windows 8.1, I'm better off in that respect. There are also a couple x64 based CPUs that won't run Windows 8.1, but will run Windows 8. And for those saying "Wait Jody! Windows 8 has been out of support for a year!". Well just go to the Microsoft Catalogue (as I will be later today), and download the month's update for Server 2012 (original), and patch your system. A few of us have been doing just that for a year with great success.

And yes, Classic shell can get you to the desktop straight away.

Here's my Windows 8 desktop.


Attached Thumbnails
Windows 10 versus Windows 7: Whose numbers do you trust?-win8-darkaero.jpg  
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14 Feb 2017   #50
Ascaris

Windows 7 x64
 
 

ICIT2LOL, I am definitely with you on not wanting the phone UI on my desktop. There are a lot of compromises that are made, UI wise, to make it work on a tiny touchscreen, and while they may be necessary evils on that clumsy platform, they're wholly unnecessary on a regular desktop or laptop PC without a touchscreen.

One of the problems I have with Windows 10 is that there seems to be a random sprinkling of UWP UI bits and pieces within the OS, and there is very little rhyme or reason to it. For example, if you right click the desktop background and select Personalize, you get a UWP dialog. It resembles the Win32 one I see in 7, but it's more sparse, with wasted screen space that could be used to provide more clickable options (as my Win 7 version has).

So, you find the theme button within that UWP dialog and... you're presented with a Win32 theme menu. It's just a random smattering of both, with the Win32 bits adopting the Windows theme I select and the UWP ones stubbornly refusing.

Now, about 8 again: I've had a lot of people tell me that you can beat back the Metro annoyances of 8/8.1 and rework it into a pretty good UI. What constitutes "good" is a matter of opinion, so I won't know if I like it until I try it. It's just good to have an option for 2020 in the event that Win 10 is still something I do not want.

Jody, you wrote that your Win 8 setup is like a flatter, quicker Win 7. It doesn't have to be flat if you don't want it to, though! It doesn't have the breadth of transparency effects that 7 has, but I am not using that anyway. I am using a Win 7 theme that is very Win Classic looking, with skeuomorphic buttons and window/dialog/menus. It's not really my creation; it's based on Saarineames' (hope I spelled it right) Aero Classic theme, but heavily reworked by me to meet my needs (and since I don't have his permission, I don't distribute it to anyone). Porting it to Win 8 is no problem at all, so my Win 8 setup would look very familiar to me. I even had the theme running on Win 10 until Threshold 2 broke that compatibility.

That issue is kind of a microcosm of one of the big problems with 10. The new constant-change, rolling update cycle means that what works now can easily be broken tomorrow (and I don't mean by the inadvertent introduction of bugs, though that is a big problem too). Given the kinds of features MS has been rolling out in 10, I am glad that 7 is in extended support rather than mainstream support. It's a mature code base that changes very little compared to that of 10, and that means greater stability. By the time I get around to installing 8, if it does come to that, it will have been in extended support for two years as well. Realistically, though, 8 has been in de facto extended support since Win 10's release, even if it is technically supposed to be in mainstream support until 2018. Sorry, all you folks who expected to get all five years of mainstream support MS promised you in Win 8's EULA!
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 Windows 10 versus Windows 7: Whose numbers do you trust?




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