Windows 7 Forums
Welcome to Windows 7 Forums. Our forum is dedicated to helping you find support and solutions for any problems regarding your Windows 7 PC be it Dell, HP, Acer, Asus or a custom build. We also provide an extensive Windows 7 tutorial section that covers a wide range of tips and tricks.


Windows 7: Microsoft investigating battery problems

07 Feb 2010   #11
johngalt

 

What a lot of people reading this (and other) threads do not realize is this.

Hardware manufacturers (aka OEMs) like to customize their hardware to the point of lunacy, so that unless you're a technical savant, you're not going to be able to do much in the way of upgrading them / using better drivers as they come out. Case in point - Mobile GPUs are more often than not restricted to the drivers that they can use - you simply are not able to go out and install the latest nVidia Forceware / ATI Catalyst drivers for your system, at least not without a good bit of editing on your part.

The same will hold true for so-called SMART batteries, those that have circuitry built into them to report their conditioning to the BIOS. The idea here is that a lot of modern OEMs use such a technique to be able to easily gauge the battery (and many other hardware components as well) even if the installed OS is completely unbootable - as long as you can get to the battery, you can perform hardware diagnostics to test your hardware, like RAM, HD, and yes, battery.

For instance - I worked on several of one particular client's machines, and one of them was an older Compaq Armada laptop - whose battery did not work at all. The OS had been upgraded more than once from the default OEM installed OS, and some of the integration factors were missing - including the battery indicator and status messages, and as a result, I was told that the battery simply did not work. I went digging into the BIOS and found that Compaq included a battery conditioning application within the BIOS - and used that to resurrect what was supposedly a dead battery. Now, there is no way for the OS to have known about this, b/c back in the day, this particular feature was never ported over to the OS in question - XP - as the laptop was designed for 9x, and was running 2000 when I got it, and was running XP when the client got it back. (Yes, a legitimate copy, TYVM - I don't deal in piracy, so ixnay those thoughts). Anyhoo, after conditioning the battery, I was able to get it to last to just about what the original specs said it should last - almost 4 hours - on a laptop and battery that were almost 5 years old.

Now, a newer case - my own personal HP 2710p Tablet PC - which was bought in Aug 2008, and came with Vista business. I ran all of the Betas and the RC of Windows 7 on it, and at first there were no official drivers for such things like the Trusted Platform Module built into the laptop, nor were there some other key critical / important drivers, so I had to revert to using Vista drivers. I noticed that there was a drop in battery life (meaning I did not get my usual 3:45:00 from the battery anymore, more like 3:15:00), but I also realized that there were not official Windows 7 drivers for my machine from HP. As of November, a lot of drivers have been updated, but still not everything - not everything that was originally installed that utilizes the TPM (although if I dig deep I can find most of it now) and certainly nothing to do with the battery.

However, I also realize that that is my fault - I was using an OS not specifically approved for the machine yet. Furthermore, I was using drivers that were made for a previous OS - and although most of them will work in a pinch, they are still for a previous OS - meaning not certified for this OS. Now that 95% of the drivers are out for the machine for Windows 7, I am taking some time out soon to performing a clean install of 7 on the Tablet to make sure that no holdovers are from Vista and its idiotic inconceivable yet intrinsic incompatibilities with 7, and I'll use only HP approved drivers from HPs website.

Why? Because it is simple - M$ didn't make my hardware. HP did. For me, at this stage, t even consider a class-action lawsuit without having any facts in my hand, other than seeing numerous reports on the web about this happening, is ludicrous. No OS can operate without the OEM supplying hardware device drivers - and if they are not supplying the correct thing / supplying the incorrect ones (such as drivers written to Vista specifications as opposed to 7 specifications) then you can bet your bottom dollar that the egg will be on their faces, not on M$s.

So, before you go of half-cocked about a class action lawsuit, you better be damned sure you have your ducks in a row - and also be sure that you're not quoting just another poster with little to no experience in these matters than the rest of us.

Now, this thread can remain open, but only for objective complaints and stats - as in what manufacturer your hardware is, specific battery information (if possible) and what apps (if any) are in the BIOS for testing / conditioning your battery. Added to that would be whether you cleanly installed 7 on your machine, if it came pre-installed, or if you upgraded from Vista / XP (and if you used an upgrade disc but performed a custom install formatting the drive, that is a clean install - not an upgrade).

Finally - although it is possible that the OS is, in fact, destructively writing to the battery EEPROMs in a way that it farks them up, I guarantee that if it can be written to once, unless the EEPROM is actually hosed, it can be written to again - and again, your OEM should be handling that as they are the ones supplying you with the hardware, not M$. Therefore, look for solutions soon from your OS developer or else from your OEMs (and I am betting on your OEMs).


My System SpecsSystem Spec
.
07 Feb 2010   #12
xavierp94

Windows 7 Ultimate
 
 

I'd changed my system's batteries when Windows 7 told me too?!
My System SpecsSystem Spec
08 Feb 2010   #13
johngalt

 

Not a lot of help there - system specs, age, etc and the other info I requested above would help - just saying that you changed the battery doesn't help a lot at all in trying to figure this problem out....
My System SpecsSystem Spec
.

08 Feb 2010   #14
arkhi

Windows 2000 5.0 Build 2195
 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by arkhi View Post
I have a newly bought Gateway P-7908u. Designed capacity is 86580mWh. First week run capacity was 88050mWh. 1 week later, with win7 installed, it went down to 85037mWh. I also thought this is just wierd and I'm blaming the battery.

Currently (which is another 2 weeks later), it seems to stop charging at 82640mWh; says 97%, not charging. I'm not sure if it's supposed to be that since it used to always charge until 100%

Now that I've seen this article, I'm having some doubts. Not really making any conclusions though, too, even the slightest ones... :|

*Used CPUID Hardware Monitor to diagnose battery*
My battery charges to 100% now. I'm going to my first assumption that windows doesn't always charge to 100% in order to prolong battery life. I'm blaming the sudden drorp of mWh to first-use degradation.

Looks like W7 didn't really do anything bad to me.
My System SpecsSystem Spec
08 Feb 2010   #15
Zen00

Windows 7 Ultimate x64
 
 

Here's a great article from ArsTechnica that explains all from a MS Engineering post.

Microsoft: your battery is the problem, not Windows 7

That should clear it up for now.
My System SpecsSystem Spec
15 Feb 2010   #16
arkhi

Windows 2000 5.0 Build 2195
 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by arkhi View Post
Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by arkhi View Post
I have a newly bought Gateway P-7908u. Designed capacity is 86580mWh. First week run capacity was 88050mWh. 1 week later, with win7 installed, it went down to 85037mWh. I also thought this is just wierd and I'm blaming the battery.

Currently (which is another 2 weeks later), it seems to stop charging at 82640mWh; says 97%, not charging. I'm not sure if it's supposed to be that since it used to always charge until 100%

Now that I've seen this article, I'm having some doubts. Not really making any conclusions though, too, even the slightest ones... :|

*Used CPUID Hardware Monitor to diagnose battery*
My battery charges to 100% now. I'm going to my first assumption that windows doesn't always charge to 100% in order to prolong battery life. I'm blaming the sudden drorp of mWh to first-use degradation.

Looks like W7 didn't really do anything bad to me.
Okay, I just checked my batter capacities and as of now, exactly a month after I bought this laptop brand new, my charge capacity has decreased from 86580 to 79354. That's around 7000 mWh lost! If it goes on at this rate, my battery should die completely 11 months from now.

I'm still thinking that this is a factory defect on my OEM's part. But I'm now also considering the possibilty that W7 might be doing something here. Either it's misreading my last full charge capacities and it's thinking that it can't charge anymore when it should be able to, or that it could overcharging my battery to loose its capacity faster.
My System SpecsSystem Spec
15 Feb 2010   #17
Zen00

Windows 7 Ultimate x64
 
 

What utility do you use to measure that?
My System SpecsSystem Spec
15 Feb 2010   #18
logicearth

Windows 10 Pro (x64)
 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by arkhi View Post
I'm still thinking that this is a factory defect on my OEM's part. But I'm now also considering the possibilty that W7 might be doing something here. Either it's misreading my last full charge capacities and it's thinking that it can't charge anymore when it should be able to, or that it could overcharging my battery to loose its capacity faster.
Windows does not control the battery in any respect. It is all done in the hardware, the battery monitors and handles itself. Windows merely reports what it is told by the hardware.
My System SpecsSystem Spec
15 Feb 2010   #19
bugg

Windows 7
 
 
It not only give warning it actually shuts the laptop!!

It not only give warning it actually shuts the laptop!!!

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by dmex View Post
Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by raydabruce View Post
Not according to a lot of people on Microsoft Technet who've been looking into this issue for over 7 months. Do some real research before making a statement like that. And why would Microsoft feel the need to issue a statement about it if it had no basis in fact? And why is a class-action lawsuit being talked about? And why have most of the major computer reporting sites picked up on this? I'm talking about reputable sites that don't put up info unless it's been verified.
You didn't even read the statement about the problem did you?

Technet and News sites are not good places for conducting 'research' for facts about a problem unless you want information from people who don't have any technical expertise

The only offical statement from anywhere is from Microsoft and they said quote: "Windows 7 users to get a warning that there is a problem with their battery when, in fact, there is not"

People are obviously worried about their batteries and its clear Microsoft wasn't very happy with the amount of FUD being spread via the news and other sites and decided a statement was necessary to clear up the confusion.

Quote:
If you don't think that software can disable or damage hardware, well, you're not very computer-literate (ever heard of BIOS flashing?).
LOL, A failed BIOS flash doesn't ever permanently damage/disable the BIOS or hardware itself, It just prevents your motherboard from booting up and thus working again. Most BIOS's are removable for this reason, so the manufacturer or yourself can remove it and re-flash it using a special kit.

Quote:
there are too many reports of Windows 7 corrupting the EEPROMS in these batteries in a way that reduces their capacity to a tiny fraction of what it should be.
Maybe you should read Microsoft's statement again
My System SpecsSystem Spec
15 Feb 2010   #20
logicearth

Windows 10 Pro (x64)
 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by bugg View Post
It not only give warning it actually shuts the laptop!!!
Because it is set to shut down/hibernate/sleep when the battery reaches a certain level. This is configurable in power settings.


Attached Images
Microsoft investigating battery problems-untitled.png 
My System SpecsSystem Spec
Reply

 Microsoft investigating battery problems




Thread Tools




Similar help and support threads
Thread Forum
"Internal battery" notices..what problems could a low battery cause?
Okay, so I've been having a few programs with my computer...this including slowness, poor wifi connections, and odd performance of wacom tablets. The problems with a tablet are described in more detail here-->...
Performance & Maintenance
Microsoft investigating Windows 7 battery warning issue
Source - Neowin.net - Microsoft investigating Windows 7 battery warning issues
Hardware & Devices
Microsoft Still Investigating Old IE Bug
Details...
News
Microsoft Invents Battery Technology
More...
News
Microsoft investigating new IE browser vulnerability
Full story: Microsoft investigating new IE browser vulnerability | Zero Day | ZDNet.com
News
HP KEEPS CRASHING --> battery problems ???
Alright, I have a HP HDX16t-1200 laptop that came with Vista x64. Everything worked as it should have on Vista, but ever since I upgraded to Windows 7 there have been a bunch of problems. At first, I just did a update from Vista to 7, and there were a bunch of problems like connectivity, etc....
BSOD Help and Support


Our Sites

Site Links

About Us

Find Us

Windows 7 Forums is an independent web site and has not been authorized, sponsored, or otherwise approved by Microsoft Corporation. "Windows 7" and related materials are trademarks of Microsoft Corp.

Designer Media Ltd

All times are GMT -5. The time now is 18:07.
Twitter Facebook Google+ Seven Forums iOS App Seven Forums Android App