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Windows 7: Opera still unhappy with browser-ballot

05 Apr 2010   #21
noel55

7 home premium 64
 
 

maxthon folks. it is the way to go. try it


My System SpecsSystem Spec
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05 Apr 2010   #22
yowanvista

Windows 10 Pro x64, Arch Linux
 
 

Shame on Opera
They won't gain anything by doing this
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05 Apr 2010   #23
seekermeister

W7x64 Pro, SuSe 12.1/** W7 x64 Pro, XP MCE
 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by smarteyeball View Post
Even I'm hard pressed to find many features of which to extol it's virtues.

I don't even use 2/3 of it's 'extras' like Opera unite, built in mail, torrent client, widgets, bloody mouse gestures etc.

However, 10.51 does initially load quickly and browses fast enough and despite using only a limited amount of it's feature set, I'm quite comfortable with it.

Simply put, I like it, but don't love it.

(it did become a lot more pleasant to use after learning you can edit the urlfilter.ini directly. It's like a poor mans noscript)

It is hard, but not impossible. It did wean me off FF as my my main browser

Upon reflection, even though their management sound like a bunch of sour old biddies, I'm not going to cut my nose off to spite my face.

So until something else comes along that suits my preferences, I'll stick with Opera.
You find it difficult to find any virtues in Opera? Although you simply shrug off several virtues as insignificant, you fail to mention some of it's more important ones. How about the fact that it is the most secure browser available? What about voice...speeddial...customizability?

Perhaps, instead of telling us what virtues that Opera has, you could toll the bell for the virtues of IE, FF or Chrome that make them superior? I can accept the fact that some may prefer one or the other of these, that is the nature of differences in taste, but when anyone attempts to make an "objective" assessment in the fashion that you did, and then say that you prefer it, despite it's lack of virtue puzzles me. Again, list the virtues of any other browser, then compare Opera to it.

As for the grumbling about Opera's management methods, it seems that many people do not have any understanding of how much Opera has influenced the improvements that have been adopted by these other browsers. Opera's primary target for profit is no longer desktop browsing, but in portable devices. That is the reason that the browser is now free, as of a few years ago. Therefore I'm very glad that they continue to improve and support the desktop browser as they do.
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05 Apr 2010   #24
smarteyeball

 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by seekermeister View Post
You find it difficult to find any virtues in Opera?
Perhaps I should clarify - I couldn't be bothered itemizing every single bloody feature or setting that I use and the reasons why for the simple reason that nobody really cares.

Quote:
Although you simply shrug off several virtues as insignificant, you fail to mention some of it's more important ones.
I shrug, because they are insignificant to me. Nowhere did I say they were insignificant for everyone.


Quote:
How about the fact that it is the most secure browser available?
Any browser I invest significant time and effort into coupled with a common sense browsing style is a secure browser for me.

All browsers are exploitable. Opera is no exception. Part of it's current security status is due to the fact that it has a comparatively lower user base, negating any real incentive for nefarious individuals to exploit it.

Quote:
What about voice
Don't use it.

Quote:
speeddial
Admittedly that was an initial drawcard for me in previous versions and I do use it, but by the same token I also find it limited compared to Firefox's speedial add-on.

Quote:
...customizability?
I have customized FF all the way up the hoo-ha, yet overall I am quite happy with the majority of Opera defaults, bar a few settings/tweaks I've made.

Quote:
Perhaps, instead of telling us what virtues that Opera has, you could toll the bell for the virtues of IE, FF or Chrome that make them superior? I can accept the fact that some may prefer one or the other of these, that is the nature of differences in taste, but when anyone attempts to make an "objective" assessment in the fashion that you did, and then say that you prefer it, despite it's lack of virtue puzzles me. Again, list the virtues of any other browser, then compare Opera to it.
I have to admit I am utterly perplexed as to your umbrage regarding my post.

And how the hell did you suffer from the misapprehension that I was touting other browsers as superior?


I was unaware that my post was to be held accountable in the same light as if this was akin to a marketing spiel, test, or job interview where I had a vested interest in providing a favorable outcome.

Perhaps it simply did not occur to you that I have zero interest in writing a well constructed and definitively 'objective assessment' of elucidation regarding Opera, it's features and the subsequent comparison and rebuttal regarding other browsers and their particular functions.

This is primarily because it's just another post about a browser amidst an inundation of subjective and ultimately damn pointless browser posts.

You can only bang your head against a wall for so long until you either bleed or pass out.
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05 Apr 2010   #25
seekermeister

W7x64 Pro, SuSe 12.1/** W7 x64 Pro, XP MCE
 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by smarteyeball View Post
Any browser I invest significant time and effort into coupled with a common sense browsing style is a secure browser for me.
While I agree that a person's browsing habits have a strong bearing on security, unless you are a programmer, sense and time alone, do not produce secure browsing
Quote:
All browsers are exploitable. Opera is no exception. Part of it's current security status is due to the fact that it has a comparatively lower user base, negating any real incentive for nefarious individuals to exploit it.
Yes, Opera has had some security vulnerabilities, but unlike some browsers, Opera fixes them rapidly and does not have a long list of known issues like IE once had, and will probably have again, given sufficient time. Or as in the case of FF, they just got around to fixing one problem that has been known for 8 years.

If Opera had the majority share of the market, I would imagine that it would have more problems than it does, but not in the fashion of others. Generally, exploits are targeted at all browsers...if they are designed in a fashion that makes them vulnerable. IE is not simply targeted because of it's market position, but because of the way that it is designed.
Quote:
Admittedly that was an initial drawcard for me in previous versions and I do use it, but by the same token I also find it limited compared to Firefox's speedial add-on.
While I will admit to little knowledge of FF speeddial add-on, because I only use FF on occassion, and never bother with add-ons, from what I Googled, it seems obvious that it has plenty of problems working properly. Opera's speeddial is integral and quite reliable. If that were not the case, I wouldn't spend the time required to customize it to my taste, as seen in the attachment below.


Attached Thumbnails
Opera still unhappy with browser-ballot-opera.png  
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05 Apr 2010   #26
smarteyeball

 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by seekermeister View Post
While I agree that a person's browsing habits have a strong bearing on security, unless you are a programmer, sense and time alone, do not produce secure browsing
While that is true to a degree, I honestly cannot remember the last time I have been infected, click-jacked, had code injected, drive by download, had my home page hijacked etcetera.

So, in absentia of developer skills, I acknowledge my potential fallibility re security, yet I do maintain I have done pretty well so far


Quote:
Yes, Opera has had some security vulnerabilities, but unlike some browsers, Opera fixes them rapidly and does not have a long list of known issues like IE once had, and will probably have again, given sufficient time. Or as in the case of FF, they just got around to fixing one problem that has been known for 8 years.

If Opera had the majority share of the market, I would imagine that it would have more problems than it does, but not in the fashion of others. Generally, exploits are targeted at all browsers...if they are designed in a fashion that makes them vulnerable. IE is not simply targeted because of it's market position, but because of the way that it is designed.
Yes, some exploits are cross platform exploits, but there are still some that are target specific. Hence the reason I said part of.

As for FF taking their time to patch some flaws, they patched from 3.6 to 3.6.2 to 3.6.3 with a certain amount of alacrity. Even if there were other outstanding issues, they had not affected me.


Quote:
While I will admit to little knowledge of FF speeddial add-on, because I only use FF on occassion, and never bother with add-ons, from what I Googled, it seems obvious that it has plenty of problems working properly. Opera's speeddial is integral and quite reliable. If that were not the case, I wouldn't spend the time required to customize it to my taste, as seen in the attachment below.
Well I have been using the FF add-on Speedial for quite some time and as of yet failed to have any issues with it. It integrates well and functions exactly as Opera's does. The only caveat is that it does not have a a built in search bar.

Granted, it may not be as 'polished' , but this is easily rectified by further customizing.

However there is another add-on called Fast dial that is quite simply 'pretty looking but buggy rubbish' to put it euphemistically.

I am aware of Opera's capacity for customization re it's speed dial, (nice work on yours by the way) as I have customized it my self.

However, the one major limitation I find is that I miss is the capacity for multiple speed dial pages ala the feature found in FF's speeddial, which is something I found very beneficial.


No offense, but I fail to see the need for this debate. I use Opera, you use Opera. I like some aspects, and eschew others. That is my prerogative.

I have already outlined why I have no interest in defending / debating it's merits.

I am neither an advocate of it's strengths, nor a candidate for conversion since it's already my primary browser. Save the merit debate for those who are non-opera users.

Ultimately, a browser is merely a tool and it just so happens that opera is my current tool of choice.
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05 Apr 2010   #27
seekermeister

W7x64 Pro, SuSe 12.1/** W7 x64 Pro, XP MCE
 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by smarteyeball View Post
Yes, some exploits are cross platform exploits, but there are still some that are target specific. Hence the reason I said part of.

As for FF taking their time to patch some flaws, they patched from 3.6 to 3.6.2 to 3.6.3 with a certain amount of alacrity. Even if there were other outstanding issues, they had not affected me.
Mark it up to my in-eloquence in speech, but I did not intend to impart a hostility to your posts, nor debate...in the sense of argument. Only to converse as objectively as possible.

In that fashion, I ask for you to give an example of how any browser is specifically targeted that doesn't relate to it's specific design? One manner in which IE was targeted was due to it's abundant use of ActiveX elements. If Opera did the same, it would have the same problem, but it never has, nor ever will.

As you know, the rapidity of FF releases, that does not necessarily indicate a speed in terms of fixing vulnerabilties.
Quote:
Well I have been using the FF add-on Speedial for quite some time and as of yet failed to have any issues with it. It integrates well and functions exactly as Opera's does. The only caveat is that it does not have a a built in search bar.

Granted, it may not be as 'polished' , but this is easily rectified by further customizing.

However there is another add-on called Fast dial that is quite simply 'pretty looking but buggy rubbish' to put it euphemistically.

I am aware of Opera's capacity for customization re it's speed dial, (nice work on yours by the way) as I have customized it my self.

However, the one major limitation I find is that I miss is the capacity for multiple speed dial pages ala the feature found in FF's speeddial, which is something I found very beneficial.
Previously, you said that FF's speeddial far surpasses that of Opera's, but the only thing that you have mentioned that Opera doesn't have is multiple speeddial pages. I suppose that could be useful to some, but the 60 spaces that I have suffice for me, and I could add more if I really wanted to. I would prefer to see all of the choices at once, rather than flip back and forth to find what I want.
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 Opera still unhappy with browser-ballot




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