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Windows 7: Germany: Wireless owner responsible for others download

13 May 2010   #31
seekermeister

W7x64 Pro, SuSe 12.1/** W7 x64 Pro, XP MCE
 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by Kari View Post
I am very strongly against all kind of piracy and illegal downloads. That said, I think this court order is a step beyond stupidity.

We talked about this with some guys tonight when I went to have some beer in my local pub. We were wondering if this means that if we had our laptops with us, and we used the pub's free access point to download some music, would the owner of the pub be held responsible?
By the scope of the law as defined by that ruling...yes, the owner of the pub would be responsible. Perhaps even more so, because he is knowingly providing the access, not having it stolen from him.

EDIT: I don't know anything about German law, nor it's legal system, but I assume that it is similar to US law, in that a ruling doesn't necessarily create law, it would be tested by future legal actions. Unfortunately, that doesn't necessarily help the person against whom this ruling was made or anyone else, if they lack the resources to fight.

EDIT: Perhaps, those of you who live in Germany should establish a defense fund, not only to help those caught in this gnarly web, but for the purpose of preventing it from becoming a legal club to force German citizens to kowtow to this kind of abusive use of the law.


My System SpecsSystem Spec
.
13 May 2010   #32
whs
Microsoft MVP

Vista, Windows7, Mint Mate, Zorin, Windows 8
 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by seekermeister View Post
Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by Kari View Post
I am very strongly against all kind of piracy and illegal downloads. That said, I think this court order is a step beyond stupidity.

We talked about this with some guys tonight when I went to have some beer in my local pub. We were wondering if this means that if we had our laptops with us, and we used the pub's free access point to download some music, would the owner of the pub be held responsible?
By the scope of the law as defined by that ruling...yes, the owner of the pub would be responsible. Perhaps even more so, because he is knowingly providing the access, not having it stolen from him.

EDIT: I don't know anything about German law, nor it's legal system, but I assume that it is similar to US law, in that a ruling doesn't necessarily create law, it would be tested by future legal actions. Unfortunately, that doesn't necessarily help the person against whom this ruling was made or anyone else, if they lack the resources to fight.
German Law is very different to Anglo-Saxon (including US) law. Your law is a case law which is based on prior case decisions. German law is a Roman law model meaning that it is a written law. The decisions of the courts are in essence "clarifications" of that written law which become an addendum to the law. And as such it becomes law itself - very hard to fight, especially if the supreme court has made a ruling (which was the case here).
My System SpecsSystem Spec
13 May 2010   #33
seekermeister

W7x64 Pro, SuSe 12.1/** W7 x64 Pro, XP MCE
 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by whs View Post
Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by seekermeister View Post
Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by Kari View Post
I am very strongly against all kind of piracy and illegal downloads. That said, I think this court order is a step beyond stupidity.

We talked about this with some guys tonight when I went to have some beer in my local pub. We were wondering if this means that if we had our laptops with us, and we used the pub's free access point to download some music, would the owner of the pub be held responsible?
By the scope of the law as defined by that ruling...yes, the owner of the pub would be responsible. Perhaps even more so, because he is knowingly providing the access, not having it stolen from him.

EDIT: I don't know anything about German law, nor it's legal system, but I assume that it is similar to US law, in that a ruling doesn't necessarily create law, it would be tested by future legal actions. Unfortunately, that doesn't necessarily help the person against whom this ruling was made or anyone else, if they lack the resources to fight.
German Law is very different to Anglo-Saxon (including US) law. Your law is a case law which is based on prior case decisions. German law is a Roman law model meaning that it is a written law. The decisions of the courts are in essence "clarifications" of that written law which become an addendum to the law. And as such it becomes law itself - very hard to fight, especially if the supreme court has made a ruling (which was the case here).
Let it be written. Let it be done. I regret to hear that your system is so rigid.
My System SpecsSystem Spec
.

13 May 2010   #34
whs
Microsoft MVP

Vista, Windows7, Mint Mate, Zorin, Windows 8
 
 

It is not rigid. It is just different. If I am not mistaken, all Continental European countries have the Roman model. The pro is more legal stability. I don't think many people here would be happy with the other system.
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 Germany: Wireless owner responsible for others download




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