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Windows 7: At last the legislators are doing something right!

16 Jun 2010   #21
Colonel Travis

Black Label 7 x64
 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by Kari View Post
The legislators in my small native Finland are trying to tell us consumers, that if you are stupid enough to do nothing, you can only blame yourself.

Haha. Although I side with Mark, I wish politicians thought like this more often.


My System SpecsSystem Spec
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16 Jun 2010   #22
severedsolo

Windows 7 Ultimate X64 SP1
 
 

Kari, first let me say that I actually agree with you (as stated earlier in the post)

Your response actually suprises me though. Considering your vehement hatred of all things Piracy related, you strike me as the sort of person who would oppose this as it quite frankly makes pirate's life easier.

Course I'm obviously wrong I'm not having a go by the way, just saying I'm a bit suprised.
My System SpecsSystem Spec
16 Jun 2010   #23
Kari

 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by severedsolo View Post
Kari, first let me say that I actually agree with you (as stated earlier in the post)

Your response actually suprises me though. Considering your vehement hatred of all things Piracy related, you strike me as the sort of person who would oppose this as it quite frankly makes pirate's life easier.

Course I'm obviously wrong I'm not having a go by the way, just saying I'm a bit suprised.
Although not living in Finland any more, not in a very long time, I have been participating the debate on several Finnish media about this. In the beginning I was strictly against the whole idea, until I thought it a bit more. I believe the English word for someone like me is turncoat; today I am very strongly supporting this bill.

I don't want to make pirates life easier, absolutely not. My comparison was meant to say that we consumers should protect our systems against line pirates, as companies are protecting their products against software pirates.

As I quoted in my first post, Finland has so far had only one case where Court has given a sentence for unauthorized surfing in an unencrypted WiFi network. This shows authorities inability to cope with the current situation. In my opinion, it's better to clarify the existing situation with legislation: if someone is so stupid not to protect their network, it's OK to use it.

My whole point is that I'm worried every time I visit friends and family and notice they don't even think about protecting their networks. A couple times I have showed this by using my laptop to enter the network and hijacked it. IMO any method that can change the current situation, can make people start using encryption, is acceptable.

One important point to understand is that volume based connection model does not exist in Finland any more. ISP's in Finland are selling only what we call flat rate; surf and download as much as you want, whenever you want, the price is fixed. Nobody is going to get a bigger bill, or the line cut, because some passerby downloaded two movies. Of course, this is an important factor behind the bill. This legislation does not suit a country or area where there still exists volume based contracts.

Another aspect is that with this legislation, when you are travelling in Finland and need connection, it's good to know that it's OK to use any open network your laptop can find. Legislators have made their point clear: if you don't want outsiders to use your network, encrypt it.

I can understand how you could think supporting this bill contradicts my known anti-piracy opinions. However, in this case I think it's good the politicians of my country are saying it's enough now: protect your network or do not complain.

Kari
My System SpecsSystem Spec
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16 Jun 2010   #24
Minotar

Windows 7 Ultimate 64bit
 
 

What would happen if said hi-jacker downloaded illegal software using the unsuspecting owners network though?

Should that be ok too ?

Bet the companies would fight to see it different.

As i see it,we should,everyone,be able to secure our own network.But this is taking it a step to far,this is inviting hijacking as there is no repremand,therefore the only thing stopping you is a conscience,and even that wont take much of a hit if its proclaimed as legally ok.

It seems more like they just dont want to follow up on the cases and are taking the easy way out and slapping a slogan on it,i.e "your on fault"

My 2c
My System SpecsSystem Spec
17 Jun 2010   #25
Kari

 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by Minotar View Post
What would happen if said hi-jacker downloaded illegal software using the unsuspecting owners network though?

Should that be ok too ?

Bet the companies would fight to see it different.
Situation is the same if a user is downloading illegal content using a free WiFi in a hotel, airport etc.

Quote from my original post:
Quote:
According to various statements, it is though important that the online connection's owner's rights have to be protected, so the owner would not be held liable after some third party misuse of the open, unprotected line.
My System SpecsSystem Spec
17 Jun 2010   #26
BCXtreme

Windows 7 Home Premium x64
 
 

Here's a very important take on the "unlocked door" example...

Does/should the government have the right to force you to lock your doors to prevent theft? Then they don't have the right to force you to secure your Wi-Fi to prevent unauthorized use. In the U.S. (at least for now) the government doesn't have either of these rights.

Some might even argue that having an open network is enabling crime ... but hey, then aren't we enabling murder just by being alive?

Freedom and personal responsibility are always the best way to go. Hopefully Finland's parliament (?) will see that and pass this legislation!
My System SpecsSystem Spec
17 Jun 2010   #27
severedsolo

Windows 7 Ultimate X64 SP1
 
 

Kari at the risk of going OT, very interested in the lesson about finnish policy on internet access.

So how does that work exactly? For instance here, My ISP has 2 packages a "Value" package of 10GB/month which is very cheap and a "Premium" package of 80GB/month which is more expensive.

Presumably in Finland, the people who would be on the "Value" package pay a little more, but the people on the "Premium" package pay a little less?
My System SpecsSystem Spec
17 Jun 2010   #28
Kari

 

All ISP contracts, DSL and cable alike, are flat rate. Fixed price, no restrictions; download 24/7/365 if you want to, you never have to think how much you download. The kind of packs you mention, Severed, don't exist. Only difference in price is based on line speed.

I just checked three biggest Finnish ISP's websites. Looks like an average packet today is a 20/1 Mbps ADSL or cable. Monthly cost about €25, no volume restrictions, add €5 to include a mobile 3G USB dongle with unrestricted use.
My System SpecsSystem Spec
17 Jun 2010   #29
severedsolo

Windows 7 Ultimate X64 SP1
 
 

Sorry I wasn't very clear

I meant that the "High usage" users pay less than they would with the system we have here, and the "Low Usage" users pay more than they would here? as it is a flat rate I mean.
My System SpecsSystem Spec
17 Jun 2010   #30
Kari

 

I'm not sure what you mean now. Let's try to clarify:

Everybody pays the same monthly fee in Finland, I mean if both you and me have the same pack from an ISP, for instance 20/1 Mbps for €25 a month, and I use only a few megs, only reading emails but you have some P2P app running 24/7 using a couple hundred gigs, we both pay at the end of the month €25.

The pricing in Finland is based only on the DL/UL speed. How much you use it, or even if you don't use it at all, has nothing to do with the price you pay. Value, Premium, low usage, high usage, all terms and pack models we don't use anymore.
My System SpecsSystem Spec
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 At last the legislators are doing something right!




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