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Windows 7: New build planned. Need general advice

16 Oct 2010   #31
Dave76

Microsoft Community Contributor Award Recipient

Windows 7 Ult x64 - SP1/ Windows 8 Pro x64
 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by Lebon14 View Post
Hi guys...

Questions time!
1. Do I need thermal paste (or is there any pre-applied?)
2. Is the SSD a good choice.
3. Enough wattage from PSU?
4. Is there any conflicts or known compatibility problems between two hardware (ex. RAM with Motherboard)

So, do you have any other suggestions to this build? I can change parts as long as I stay UNDER the 2000$ mark. For the SSD, I would like no less than 80GB. I currently use 70GB on my current disk and well, 64GB is not gonna do it.

Hope you guys will help me out through my first real build from scratch.

Later

EDIT

Epic 900th post.

You have made very good choices and gotten some excellent suggestions.

First, your questions.

1. Answered already, yes.
2. I have to agree with Wishmaster on this topic, just going with a SF controller doesn't mean the best performance. Sequential writes and reads are prominently posted by all manufacturers but, is one of the least important factors. Random reads are the most important, with random writes next. This is what allows the OS and programs to perform. Input/output is the key factor.
The firmware for the controller will make or break the SSD. This is very important.
3. Your PSU choice is fine, if you want an extra measure of insurance go for 750w or higher. Quality PSU is very important, good choice going with Corsair.
4. Your compatibility choices are good, always best to get RAM on the motherboards compatibility list.

You have mentioned that you have decided to go with the 1366 platform.
Good choice.
Just another opinion, not sure if you based this on the best information.
If it's what you want, then get it, although the 1156 platform has specs and benchmarks the are nearly identical, especially if your not planning on overclocking. You can save money with the 1156 motherboards, the extra features on the 1366 boards are for graphics cards(2) and OC'ing.
The added benefits of triple channel versus dual channel RAM has been debated and the added benefits are considered by most reviews as being for OC bragging rights.


Triple channel versus Dual channel
Quote:
Discovery: Two Channels Aren't Worse Than Three from AnandTech

The 975 ran DDR3-1066 memory (the highest it officially supports), while the 870 used DDR3-1333. The faster memory gave the 870 the advantage. Since we're not taxing all four cores, Lynnfield is at no disadvantage from a bandwidth perspective. Surprisingly enough, even SiSoft Sandra (which does use four cores for its memory bandwidth test) shows Lynnfield's dual-channel DDR3-1333 memory controller as equal to Bloomfield's triple-channel DDR3-1066 interface.
There are many reviews on this subject, just run a search.

My 1156 socket Gigabyte GA-P55A-UD4P, i5-750, with dual channel Corsair XMS DDR3 runs at 19,521 MB/s.
The i7-9xx triple channel I've seen run anywhere from 16,000 to 22,000 MB/s.
The speed difference will not be noticeable.

If you just want to have the triple channel, then by all means get it. Just wanted to give you some information on the subject.


CPU

Just checked the i7-950 and i7-870, specs are for all purposes the same, the price at Newegg US is $5 more for the i7-950. So no real difference between them.

At the AnandTech CPU Bench site you can pick any two CPUs and compare them side by side.
Here is the i7-950 and i7-870

Here is the list of rankings of the tested CPUs


Motherboard

The only real difference between the 1366 and 1156 socket motherboards are triple channel and dual channel RAM, and price. The 1366 socket boards are better if you want to run two or more graphics cards.

You will pay approximately U$ 80-120 more for the 1366 socket board.

I would save the $100 CAD and put it towards a better SSD.


SSD

Anandtech Bench SSD you can look at the list on the first page or choose any two SSDs and compare them.

My personal choice is Intel followed by OCZ, the Crucial SSDs are getting good reviews but, did have some firmware issues before, so still risky for me.

If you can wait for a couple of weeks or maybe months, the new 25nm memory SSDs are going to start showing up, rumors are they will be twice the size for about the same price they are today. They should have much better performance and life expectancies.
An 80GB SSD should be in the $100-150 range.

The new Intel Gen3 25nm SSDs are coming out soon, with higher specs.
Also, Sand Force is coming out with a new controller in the same time frame, this combined with 25nm memory should have some nice specs.


In conclusion, get the system that you want.
The performance of this level of specs are very close, at the end of the day you are the one that needs to be happy with it.

My recommendation at this level would be:
i5-760 Lynnfield 2.8GHz, Newegg.ca $215 - Check the comparison between this and the i7-950 on the AnandTech site.

GIGABYTE GA-P55A-UD3 LGA 1156 Intel P55 SATA 6Gb/s USB 3.0 ATX Intel Motherboard, Newegg.ca $135

This will save you about $180-200. For a performance differential of about 3%. Which won't be noticable.



My System SpecsSystem Spec
.
17 Oct 2010   #32
WindowsStar

Windows 7 Enterprise (x64); Windows Server 2008 R2 (x64)
 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by Lebon14 View Post
Hi guys.

It WILL happen this time. I guaranty it. I saved money over the last 5½ months to make a 2000$ CAD budget for a brand new computer that will replace my current one.

I will...
* NOT be overclocking.
* be playing some games from time to time.
* be watching Blu-ray movies even if I hate those stupid DRMs.
* NOT be setting up RAIDs
* NOT be setting up CrossFire or SLi

So here are the parts. All price are in Canadian dollars and from Newegg.ca

CPU Core i7 950 3.06GHz - 318.99$ (Link)

Motherboard Gigabyte GA-X58-USB3 - 184.99$ (Link)

RAM Corsair XMS3 3x2GB DDR3 1333MHz 9-9-9-24 - 122.49$ (Link)

SSD G.Skill Phoenix Pro Series FM-25S2S-80GBP2 80GB - 175$ (Link)

GPU EVGA nVidia GeForce GTX 460 - 254.99$ (Link)

Optical Drive LG UH10LS20 CD/DVD burning + Blu-ray reading support - 99.99$ (Link)

Sound card On-board + HT-Omega Claro Halo - 164.99$ (Link)

Case Lian-Li Lancool PC-K62 - 99.99 (Link)

Power Supply Corsair HX Series CMPSU-620HX 620W (Modular) - 112.49$ (Link)

Monitor Asus VW246H 24" 2ms - 229.99$ (Link)

Accessories
Cables Unlimited Anti-static Wrist Strap With Grounding Wire - 7.49$ (Link)
Nippon Labs Premium 6 ft. HDMI to mini HDMI cable - 9.49$ (Link)

--Software/hardware From Current build that will be trasnfered--

Hitachi 7200RPM 500GB HDD (holds data)
Western Digital VarRPM 1TB HDD (holds data)
Eagle Arion speakers
Samsung ML-2010 Laser Printer
Canon LiDE 200 Scanner
Keyboard (Logitech Media Keyboard Elite)
Mouse (Logitech LX7)
Windows 7 Édition Familiale Premium (Home Premium French)(full retail)
Office 2007

Questions time!
1. Do I need thermal paste (or is there any pre-applied?)
2. Is the SSD a good choice.
3. Enough wattage from PSU?
4. Is there any conflicts or known compatibility problems between two hardware (ex. RAM with Motherboard)

So, do you have any other suggestions to this build? I can change parts as long as I stay UNDER the 2000$ mark. For the SSD, I would like no less than 80GB. I currently use 70GB on my current disk and well, 64GB is not gonna do it.

Hope you guys will help me out through my first real build from scratch.

Later

EDIT

Epic 900th post.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16813131665

I just bought this board. It is cheaper than the one you picked because it has free shipping.

Edit: Looks like others have pointed to this board too. Great MB!!!
My System SpecsSystem Spec
17 Oct 2010   #33
WindowsStar

Windows 7 Enterprise (x64); Windows Server 2008 R2 (x64)
 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by Kipper View Post
1. The included fan and heatsink for the i7 950 has TIM pre-applied. Since you wont be doing any OC you will be fine.
I have installed several of the i7 950's the TIM is not good so the CPU runs too hot (NO OC). You should apply more of a good quality.
My System SpecsSystem Spec
.

17 Oct 2010   #34
WindowsStar

Windows 7 Enterprise (x64); Windows Server 2008 R2 (x64)
 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by Lebon14 View Post
I was also looking at the Asus Sabertooth X58 motherboard :
Newegg.ca - ASUS Sabertooth X58 LGA 1366 Intel X58 SATA 6Gb/s USB 3.0 ATX Intel Motherboard

What do you think guys?
Two Words:

1) FAST!
2) Fantastic.
My System SpecsSystem Spec
17 Oct 2010   #35
Lebon14

Windows 7 Home Premium x64 SP1
 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by WindowsStar View Post
Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by Lebon14 View Post
I was also looking at the Asus Sabertooth X58 motherboard :
Newegg.ca - ASUS Sabertooth X58 LGA 1366 Intel X58 SATA 6Gb/s USB 3.0 ATX Intel Motherboard

What do you think guys?
Two Words:

1) FAST!
2) Fantastic.
I found a problem with this motherboard. I don't say that it looks bad... it has a major design flaw for MY build. While most people will use the on-board sound chip, they won't have to use the PCI slot. If look carefully, I also buy an HT-Omega sound card that uses the PCI slot. My video card (GeForce GTX 460) just block it off. That's why I'm choosing the Gigabyte motherboard after all.

By the way, there is is no free shipping with my case because the rest of the components aren't free shipping :P
My System SpecsSystem Spec
17 Oct 2010   #36
Lebon14

Windows 7 Home Premium x64 SP1
 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by Dave76 View Post
2. I have to agree with Wishmaster on this topic, just going with a SF controller doesn't mean the best performance. Sequential writes and reads are prominently posted by all manufacturers but, is one of the least important factors. Random reads are the most important, with random writes next. This is what allows the OS and programs to perform. Input/output is the key factor.
The firmware for the controller will make or break the SSD. This is very important.
The write speed kills me off A LOT if you meant this Intel SSD of course :
Newegg.com - Intel X25-M SSDSA2MH080G2K5 2.5" 80GB SATA II MLC Internal Solid State Drive (SSD)

Also, I heard that I need to flash the firmware to have TRIM enabled. I don't have to do that because it seems risky (at least for me). Also... I just didn't want to buy an Intel SSD at all.

After checking those benchmark by clubic.com :
Comparatif SSD : 16 modèles et 9 contrôleurs en test : Performances synthétiques
I'm pretty sure that there are better products than those offered by Intel. Hell, according to those benchmarks, My SSD is better than Intel on all sequential and ramdom read/write EXCEPT on the 4K files read tests ones.

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by Dave76 View Post
3. Your PSU choice is fine, if you want an extra measure of insurance go for 750w or higher. Quality PSU is very important, good choice going with Corsair.
Thx for that. I would get 700W but Corsair doesn't offer it with modularity.

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by Dave76 View Post
4. Your compatibility choices are good, always best to get RAM on the motherboards compatibility list.
Gigabyte doesn,t have that list with their motherboards if I'm right... otherwise I would have checked.

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by Dave76 View Post
You have mentioned that you have decided to go with the 1366 platform.
Good choice.
Just another opinion, not sure if you based this on the best information.
If it's what you want, then get it, although the 1156 platform has specs and benchmarks the are nearly identical, especially if your not planning on overclocking. You can save money with the 1156 motherboards, the extra features on the 1366 boards are for graphics cards(2) and OC'ing.
The added benefits of triple channel versus dual channel RAM has been debated and the added benefits are considered by most reviews as being for OC bragging rights.


Triple channel versus Dual channel
Quote:
Discovery: Two Channels Aren't Worse Than Three from AnandTech

The 975 ran DDR3-1066 memory (the highest it officially supports), while the 870 used DDR3-1333. The faster memory gave the 870 the advantage. Since we're not taxing all four cores, Lynnfield is at no disadvantage from a bandwidth perspective. Surprisingly enough, even SiSoft Sandra (which does use four cores for its memory bandwidth test) shows Lynnfield's dual-channel DDR3-1333 memory controller as equal to Bloomfield's triple-channel DDR3-1066 interface.
There are many reviews on this subject, just run a search.

My 1156 socket Gigabyte GA-P55A-UD4P, i5-750, with dual channel Corsair XMS DDR3 runs at 19,521 MB/s.
The i7-9xx triple channel I've seen run anywhere from 16,000 to 22,000 MB/s.
The speed difference will not be noticeable.

If you just want to have the triple channel, then by all means get it. Just wanted to give you some information on the subject.
Thx for information. I just wanted to have an high-end upgradability but it looks like that the next Intel CPU will use ANOTHER socket... which is... FAIL.

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by Dave76 View Post
CPU

Just checked the i7-950 and i7-870, specs are for all purposes the same, the price at Newegg US is $5 more for the i7-950. So no real difference between them.

At the AnandTech CPU Bench site you can pick any two CPUs and compare them side by side.
Here is the i7-950 and i7-870

Here is the list of rankings of the tested CPUs


Motherboard

The only real difference between the 1366 and 1156 socket motherboards are triple channel and dual channel RAM, and price. The 1366 socket boards are better if you want to run two or more graphics cards.

You will pay approximately U$ 80-120 more for the 1366 socket board.

I would save the $100 CAD and put it towards a better SSD.


SSD

Anandtech Bench SSD you can look at the list on the first page or choose any two SSDs and compare them.

My personal choice is Intel followed by OCZ, the Crucial SSDs are getting good reviews but, did have some firmware issues before, so still risky for me.

If you can wait for a couple of weeks or maybe months, the new 25nm memory SSDs are going to start showing up, rumors are they will be twice the size for about the same price they are today. They should have much better performance and life expectancies.
An 80GB SSD should be in the $100-150 range.

The new Intel Gen3 25nm SSDs are coming out soon, with higher specs.
Also, Sand Force is coming out with a new controller in the same time frame, this combined with 25nm memory should have some nice specs.


In conclusion, get the system that you want.
The performance of this level of specs are very close, at the end of the day you are the one that needs to be happy with it.

My recommendation at this level would be:
i5-760 Lynnfield 2.8GHz, Newegg.ca $215 - Check the comparison between this and the i7-950 on the AnandTech site.

GIGABYTE GA-P55A-UD3 LGA 1156 Intel P55 SATA 6Gb/s USB 3.0 ATX Intel Motherboard, Newegg.ca $135

This will save you about $180-200. For a performance differential of about 3%. Which won't be noticable.
At the CPUs, I guess I was a bit biased because I've used Core i7 920 for video editing and it was amazing. It was not my machine of course but man... If something IRL happens that needs a sum of money that I don,t have and then I need my saved money to pay, it'll be my second choice : Quad core i5's.

At the SSD (again), I checked the OCZ a lot too. Using your Anandtech link (holy crap... the most useful banchmark site ever >_<), the OCZ Agility 2 looks AMAZING. Its only weak point seem to be 4K Ramdom Writes which I think is still OK. 40MB/s for 4kb files is still pretty damn amazing compared to what I've already seen in the past (a couple of bytes per seconds much?). So, I'm finally heading for this one :
Newegg.ca - OCZ Agility 2 OCZSSD2-2AGTE90G 2.5&#34; 90GB SATA II MLC Internal Solid State Drive &#40;SSD&#41;

About the SSD news, I heard about it but I just can't wait anymore. Also, if I wait more, IRL expenses might show up and I might have to use my savings for that and I will still have to save again and this current PC might just be used for another 3½ year and I don't want that to happen... knowing myself.
My System SpecsSystem Spec
17 Oct 2010   #37
LiquidSnak

W7 Professional x64
 
 

My System SpecsSystem Spec
17 Oct 2010   #38
Lebon14

Windows 7 Home Premium x64 SP1
 
 

Because they have the best reviews on Newegg? Well, now, that Silverstone one is tempting because it's cheaper then Corsair's. But at the same time it seems that it is bigger than the usual ATX format and it can happen that it doesn't fit in the case... do anyone has issues with this PSU (if someone has it).
My System SpecsSystem Spec
17 Oct 2010   #39
LiquidSnak

W7 Professional x64
 
 

I have installed it in a build before.

It's a little longer, but it installs no problems in a mid tower.
My System SpecsSystem Spec
17 Oct 2010   #40
madtownidiot

 

There is nothing wrong with corsair PSUs. I had one rated at 750w as the original PSU in the build in my specs, but I underestimated the power consumption of my system and slagged the 12v rail during a prime95 test at a 20% overclock.. entirely my fault.. I was lucky not to have fried anything else, although I did replace the mobo last week, and probably the reason I put so much emphasis on recommending more power
My System SpecsSystem Spec
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 New build planned. Need general advice




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