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Windows 7: Diff.between "available" and "free" physical memory?

08 Oct 2013   #41
coghlan

Windows 7 Enterprise 64
 
 
And the culprit is...

...mcshield.exe?

165,000,000 (yes, million) page faults today.

Can this thing be locked in memory somewhere???


My System SpecsSystem Spec
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09 Oct 2013   #42
coghlan

Windows 7 Enterprise 64
 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by LMiller7 View Post
Having a significant amount of free memory is neither necessary nor desirable. The OS was designed to operate with little or no free memory, this in fact being the optimum situation. The important number is available memory and this seems to be quite adequate. Having a large number of page faults in itself is not a bad thing as most are likely to be soft faults which require no disk access. Based on the information provided there seems little reason to believe the problem is memory related.
Well, I think I have to agree that while everything fits into 4Gb, however, after the addition of 4Gb more RAM, my Win 7 Enterprise machine is noticeably faster. My initial guess is that there is a lot less virtual memory management (moving pages in/out of address space) happening with the extra RAM.

As I indicated in another post, mcshield.exe seems to generate a HUGE number of (soft) page faults, but it seems that the counts for page faults for this service are also way down. I'll have a better idea after I've had the chance to use my computer for a full day, but first impressions are very positive.
My System SpecsSystem Spec
28 Jan 2014   #43
Richman1

Windows 7 Ultimate x64
 
 
LMiller7

LMiller7
So like I said ...... when I get 'Out of Memory' warnings I have about 1GB of 'AVAILABLE' memory. I was not talking about Free memory. So, as I understand from what your saying is I should not be getting these warnings in this instance. Correct?
My System SpecsSystem Spec
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28 Jan 2014   #44
LMiller7

Windows 7 Pro 64 bit
 
 

I really dislike that "Out of memory" error. It seems to almost go out of it's way to cause confusion. I know this is counter intuitive but such errors are rarely due to a lack of physical memory (RAM). With 1 GB RAM available that would seem very unlikely. The amount of "Free" memory is largely irrelevant. These errors are usually caused by the commit charge hitting the commit limit or exhaustion of the process private virtual address space.
My System SpecsSystem Spec
04 Mar 2014   #45
Richman1

Windows 7 Ultimate x64
 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by maxie View Post
Hi there ... Part of your problem is you have far to many Tabs open .. Cannot imagine why you would need as many open .. Cut down on the Tabs it will use less memory .. And don't leave your computer on for days on end
Your incorrect in your assumption as I have had 200 Chrome tabs open for a couple days with NO 'Out of memory' alerts and then all of a sudden they start. I have closed half of the tabs and eventually start getting the 'Out of memory' alerts again. Even get them with a couple dozen tabs open so it doesn't seam to matter mow many tabs are open. It is another issue.

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by coghlan View Post
Well, I think I have to agree that while everything fits into 4Gb, however, after the addition of 4Gb more RAM, my Win 7 Enterprise machine is noticeably faster. My initial guess is that there is a lot less virtual memory management (moving pages in/out of address space) happening with the extra RAM.

As I indicated in another post, mcshield.exe seems to generate a HUGE number of (soft) page faults, but it seems that the counts for page faults for this service are also way down. I'll have a better idea after I've had the chance to use my computer for a full day, but first impressions are very positive.
Did you try a memory test?
How much RAM did you have before adding the 4GB, or how much total? I had 4GB and added 2GB more totaling 6GB and it didn't make a difference in my 'out of memory' alerts. At least no difference that I could quantify.
My System SpecsSystem Spec
04 Mar 2014   #46
Richman1

Windows 7 Ultimate x64
 
 

This is what I found about NUMA and seams to apply to mostly server CPUs and would not effect desktop consumer based systems ...... like what I have.
Here is what I found from Wikipedia:
As of 2011, ccNUMA systems are multiprocessor systems based on the AMD Opteron processor, which can be implemented without external logic, and the Intel Itanium processor, which requires the chipset to support NUMA. Examples of ccNUMA-enabled chipsets are the SGI Shub (Super hub), the Intel E8870, the HP sx2000 (used in the Integrity and Superdome servers), and those found in NEC Itanium-based systems. Earlier ccNUMA systems such as those from Silicon Graphics were based on MIPS processors and the DEC Alpha 21364 (EV7) processor.

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by LMiller7 View Post
I really dislike that "Out of memory" error. It seems to almost go out of it's way to cause confusion. I know this is counter intuitive but such errors are rarely due to a lack of physical memory (RAM). With 1 GB RAM available that would seem very unlikely. The amount of "Free" memory is largely irrelevant. These errors are usually caused by the commit charge hitting the commit limit or exhaustion of the process private virtual address space.
I am not sure what all that means or how to fix it.
My System SpecsSystem Spec
04 Mar 2014   #47
Richman1

Windows 7 Ultimate x64
 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by cdonner View Post
Unfortunately there is a bug in Windows 7 related to NUMA (non-uniform memory architecture) that will cause issues on certain platforms when the amount of Free memory goes down. For instance, on my Thinkpad T410 with 8GB of RAM the Free memory will approach zero when I load a large VM. When I stop the VM and exit VMWare, the Free memory does not recover - the memory remains allocated by the cache.
The problem with NUMA is that it prefers to allocate memory from banks that are attached to a CPU core (hence non-uniform, i.e. not all memory is considered equal). Unfortunately, the Windows 7 NUMA bug prevents memory from being allocated that is in the Available pool in this scenario. Since I have no Free memory, the machine begins to swap madly when I restart the VM (the same or another one does not matter) and freezes up for minutes - even though there are over 4GB "Available".
So, despite of what the others have said, the amount of "Free" memory is more important than what's in the "Available" pool.

There is a hotfix for this issue:
Poor performance occurs on a computer that has NUMA-based processors and that is running Windows Server 2008 R2 or Windows 7 if a thread requests lots of memory that is within the first 4 GB of memory
Seams to me this would be more of a software developer issue where some specific software is programed to look at the 'Free' memory column and complain to the OS (Windows 7) that it doesn't have enough memory and the the OS throws out an 'Out of memory' alert for the offending program when in fact there is plenty of memory in the 'Available' column, which is what it or any program may need but is just not taught (or programed) to look for.
My System SpecsSystem Spec
04 Mar 2014   #48
UsernameIssues

W7 Pro SP1 64bit
 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by Richman1 View Post
This is what I found about NUMA and seams to apply to mostly server CPUs and would not effect desktop consumer based systems ...... like what I have.
Here is what I found from Wikipedia:
As of 2011, ccNUMA systems are multiprocessor systems based on the AMD Opteron processor, which can be implemented without external logic, and the Intel Itanium processor, which requires the chipset to support NUMA. Examples of ccNUMA-enabled chipsets are the SGI Shub (Super hub), the Intel E8870, the HP sx2000 (used in the Integrity and Superdome servers), and those found in NEC Itanium-based systems. Earlier ccNUMA systems such as those from Silicon Graphics were based on MIPS processors and the DEC Alpha 21364 (EV7) processor.
~~~
That post of mine was directed at coghlan's first post the the Seven Forums here. Some documentation that I found somewhere lead me to believe that coghlan's laptop used NUMA.
My System SpecsSystem Spec
04 Mar 2014   #49
Richman1

Windows 7 Ultimate x64
 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by UsernameIssues View Post
Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by Richman1 View Post
This is what I found about NUMA and seams to apply to mostly server CPUs and would not effect desktop consumer based systems ...... like what I have.
Here is what I found from Wikipedia:
As of 2011, ccNUMA systems are multiprocessor systems based on the AMD Opteron processor, which can be implemented without external logic, and the Intel Itanium processor, which requires the chipset to support NUMA. Examples of ccNUMA-enabled chipsets are the SGI Shub (Super hub), the Intel E8870, the HP sx2000 (used in the Integrity and Superdome servers), and those found in NEC Itanium-based systems. Earlier ccNUMA systems such as those from Silicon Graphics were based on MIPS processors and the DEC Alpha 21364 (EV7) processor.
~~~
That post of mine was directed at coghlan's first post the the Seven Forums here. Some documentation that I found somewhere lead me to believe that coghlan's laptop used NUMA.
Yeh, well, the more I looked up about NUMA (too much info to post here ) the more confused I became. What do you know about it? Was my original assumption correct about it applying to only certain server CPU's or do you know about as little as I do? From what some of the things I found, was sounding like possibly that it started out that only certain server CPU's were NUMA based and then that spread to most or all CPUs implementing NUMA since the early to middle 2000's onward. I tried to look up some info or way to find out ....... 'How to know if your CPU is NUMA based' and found nothing as of yet. . MS was no help in their KB except to say to NOT install the patch on a Non-NUMA based system.
My System SpecsSystem Spec
04 Mar 2014   #50
UsernameIssues

W7 Pro SP1 64bit
 
 

I'm not sure which CPU chip sets are NUMA based.

I know what you mean about MS info not helping much...
...but in this case, I'm not much help either :-(
My System SpecsSystem Spec
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 Diff.between "available" and "free" physical memory?




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