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Windows 7: So is Win7 64-bit actually more robust than 32?

28 Jul 2009   #11
Robearl2x

Win7 Ultimate X64
 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by Xander View Post
I

It's way past time that all new computers were 64 bit IMO.

More secure, less crashes AND faster?
I agree. Its time has arrived IMO.


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28 Jul 2009   #12
chev65

Windows 7 Ult, Windows 8.1 Pro,
 
 

The real difference between 32 and 64 bit Op systems explained in detail. bit-tech.net | 64-bit: More than just the RAM
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29 Jul 2009   #13
DJG

 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by chev65 View Post
The real difference between 32 and 64 bit Op systems explained in detail. bit-tech.net | 64-bit: More than just the RAM
Hre's a quote that perplexes me from that article:

"AMD64/Intel 64 brings quite a benefit to the x86 world. For starters, x86-64 contains a huge step forward for programmers with the introduction of "relative pointers." Without going into an entire programming explanation, pointers are reference points in code (in this case we are referring to the translated machine code, or assembly) that tell a program where to go next or look for its next piece of data. These pointers previously needed to be absolute, meaning that you needed to know the exact memory address or register that you were wanting to access. "

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't this one of the many things that a compiler takes care of for you? Maybe he meant for compiler programmers? ... Or maybe I'm just showing my age?

And machine code is NOT assembly, since assembly is meant to be symbolic representation of data and instruction whereas machine code is absolute in its addressing and instruction specification.

Or maybe I'm just in an argumentative mood - it's those danged antibiotics from the Umbrella Corporation ...
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29 Jul 2009   #14
Antman

 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by DJG View Post
...Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't this one of the many things that a compiler takes care of for you? Maybe he meant for compiler programmers? ... Or maybe I'm just showing my age?

And machine code is NOT assembly, since assembly is meant to be symbolic representation of data and instruction whereas machine code is absolute in its addressing and instruction specification...
You are showing your age. I glossed over that, assuming that he meant relative instruction pointers, or position independent code. A type of virtual address is what my "glossing" read it as. As I recall, that belongs to assembly language and was made obsolete with the advent of the MMU.

I don't know, DJ. I learned what little I know from working with people that write in machine and assembly. I never really understood anything they ever said, other than "It works" or "I need more time".

ChuckR FTW.
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30 Jul 2009   #15
chuckr

XP_Pro, W7_7201, W7RC.vhd, SciLinux5.3, Fedora12, Fedora9_2x, OpenSolaris_09-06
 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by DJG View Post
Hre's a quote that perplexes me from that article:
Frankly, to me, that article reads like half smoke and half bull****. It strikes me that the author doesn't really know or understand what he's writing about. But, has some knowledge, and only in the microprocessor arena...
Quote:
"AMD64/Intel 64 brings quite a benefit to the x86 world. For starters, x86-64 contains a huge step forward for programmers with the introduction of "relative pointers." Without going into an entire programming explanation, pointers are reference points in code (in this case we are referring to the translated machine code, or assembly) that tell a program where to go next or look for its next piece of data. These pointers previously needed to be absolute, meaning that you needed to know the exact memory address or register that you were wanting to access. "
He never did define a "relative" pointer.
And I love the bit about "entire programming explanation",
"Programming" is usually indicative of the smoke and bull**** that generally follows...
The fact is, all "pointers' in the x86 architecture are relative pointers:
Executing code = CS + IP (Code Segment plus Instruction Pointer).
Fetch/Store data = DS + offset (Data Segment plus offset).
We also have the Stack Segment (SS) and the Extra Segment (ES) for various usages.
These are also Left-Shifted by 4, and then added to their designated offsets to compute the real addresses.
Quote:
Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't this one of the many things that a compiler takes care of for you? Maybe he meant for compiler programmers? ... Or maybe I'm just showing my age?
No, you're not wrong. Indeed it is one of the tasks for the compiler (or assembler) to take care of.
The only reason you -might- be showing your age is because they've transformed the vocabulary on you:
You used to "run a program". Today they "launch an application".
And don't forget "virtual" and "innovation"...
Quote:
And machine code is NOT assembly, since assembly is meant to be symbolic representation of data and instruction whereas machine code is absolute in its addressing and instruction specification.
Exactly right! You've penetrated the smoke and smelled the bull****.
Machine code is literally 1s and 0s, represented inside the computer by 'flip-flops' and gates...
Assembly is a human-understandable mnemonic representation. Viz:
Leftside=Instruction - Rside=Data designator

001 001 000 011 000 - 101 010 111 100 110 = binary machine code: Loaded to memory, then moved to the cpu for execution.

1 1 0 3 0 - 5 2 7 4 6 = the octal representation (of those binary bits)

Ld A W, cat (or dog or any 'label' you want), [Assembler] which might stand for:

Load the A register (Accumulator) with the W (whole) word from memory location 52746 octal = loc. 21990 decimal.
The value stored at that memory location could be anything:
for example, the diameter of the earth, in feet or meters...

(W=3 means full 30-bit word. U=2 means upper 15-bits, L=1 means lower 15-bits)
Note that if the 2 for upper is logically 'OR'd with the 1 for lower, we get the 3 for whole word (Upper and Lower at the same time).

An assembler would 'parse' the statement 'pieces' because of the 'spaces' and the 'comma', in order to generate the binary 'fields' that compose the computer's instruction-word, 30 bits worth...

Now that I'm getting nostalgic, here's a few pics of some real computers (with relative pointers).
Ones I used to work on. Ran into them at, of all places, Microsoft:

This one got Neil Armstrong to the moon, when I was in South Africa:
The binary example upstairs is from this computer (Try fixing a 1 or 0 in there):
1206, 3 pics, Univac NTDS for U. S. Navy. Cray’s first computer

CDC-7600, the exact same five I worked on at LLL:
7600, 7 pics, CDC 7600

Cray1/7600 LLL, CDC 7600 & Cray 1 at Livermore
Quote:
Or maybe I'm just in an argumentative mood
Yeah, me too, when I read a crappy article....
Now I gotta go get me another glass of wine...
Nice 'talkin' to 'ya!!!
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30 Jul 2009   #16
Antman

 

ChuckR for ɅɅɅ President!

I enjoyed the slideshow -


Attached Thumbnails
So is Win7 64-bit actually more robust than 32?-capture.png  
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30 Jul 2009   #17
chuckr

XP_Pro, W7_7201, W7RC.vhd, SciLinux5.3, Fedora12, Fedora9_2x, OpenSolaris_09-06
 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by Antman View Post
I enjoyed the slideshow -
Great, it's rewarding to see that someone appreciated the slides, and the cold hard facts...

It just struck me, that my most favorite computer in the
hole-wide-world has the same number as the RTM --- Fancy that!!!

But, it was a 'ones-complement' machine, and probably wouldn't run Windows...
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30 Jul 2009   #18
Antman

 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by ChuckR View Post
...the hole-wide-world...
What hole? Is that a Navy thing? Or are you into astrophysics as well? Is that why you have a Cray?

Color me intrigued, Mr. President.
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31 Jul 2009   #19
chuckr

XP_Pro, W7_7201, W7RC.vhd, SciLinux5.3, Fedora12, Fedora9_2x, OpenSolaris_09-06
 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by Antman View Post
What hole? Is that a Navy thing? Or are you into astrophysics as well? Is that why you have a Cray?

Color me intrigued, Mr. President.
Nah, just an intended, to see if anyone catches it.

Lately, I've been reading: there, their, and others, for the contraction they're (they are)....
And many others like that - It now seems normal to simply 'spell' a word like it sounds and disable yure spelling checker (heh-heh)...

So, I thought I'd try it too. But got called on it!
What made you think it wasn't a typo or faulty keyboard, thereby being 'acceptable'?

Oh, while we're off-topic, bordering on banishment, I'd like to squeeze this one in:

I must not be the only one suffering from nostalgia (good name to cut the thread to), check this out...
Especially the OCTAL placement of the switches/lamps:
(and the single-bit anomaly.)

The History of Microsoft - 1975 | The History of Microsoft | Channel 9

Now we know that there are at least 2 programmers at Microsoft that understand octal and the 'Calculator' discrepancy in Win 7 is now unforgiveable!!!


Attached Images
So is Win7 64-bit actually more robust than 32?-octal2.png So is Win7 64-bit actually more robust than 32?-octal3.png 
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31 Jul 2009   #20
chev65

Windows 7 Ult, Windows 8.1 Pro,
 
 

I thought it explained the facts pretty well myself. Last time I ever post relevant information here though, too many people here take pride in poking holes in everything that is posted instead of giving Reps for posting of relevant facts.
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 So is Win7 64-bit actually more robust than 32?




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