Overheating: Power Options, supply voltage, powercfg -energy errors?

Hi, this is all a bit complicated.


The short version: I discovered an over-heating issue on my laptop, a Toshiba Satellite C660, switching itself off twice (while I was attending) - once during the Windows Experience Index CPU stress test, the other while Kaspersky did its default virus scan. It might also have shut off while unattended, maybe during a Kaspersky scan, as I vaguely remember once or twice finding the machine off after I got called away, rather than sleeping as it should. I also have an over-voltage power supply, which I swapped for a defunct one. I'm not sure how to tweak the power settings for best cooling effect under high load, and a powercfg -energy report was incomplete, scrambled and showed various errors (USB suspend and CPU timing).


Longer version: The crash during WEI testing led me to start digging into the power settings a bit more (which I tweaked from default earlier), and I installed Open Hardware Monitor to keep an eye on the temperature. On the Kaspersky scan, OHM was running and I saw the CPU reach 90C.


Then I did a powercfg -energy report, which exposed a general USB-not-entering-suspend-state issue, for which no solution seems to exist online! Whether that's related is another point entirely.

Years ago, after a fresh install of Windows 7, I tweaked the Advanced Power Settings because the fan was a bit obtrusive, kind of dithering on-off, most of the time. I changed the "Toshiba Power Saver" setting (installed app from Toshiba), which has Cooling Methods: 'Maximum performance' and 'Battery optimized'.


I've just checked now to see which one I'd changed, and it's immediately obvious - if I put it on Maximum performance, the fan usually kicks in (lowish) and dithers on and off fairly often; if I put it to Battery optimized, it goes off (or so low I can't hear it) unless there's a more obvious load.

It seems unlikely to be the cause of the overheating, since it's not a problem in general use, just these high-stress occasions (and WEI presumably overrules such things to see what the system can do).

The other Advanced Power Settings are the Wireless Adaptor Settings > Power Saver Mode (Low power saving, Medium and High Power saving, and Maximum performance), the Intel Graphics Settings > Intel Power Plan (Maximum performance, Balanced, and Battery saver), and the PCI Express > Link State Power Management (Off, Moderate, and Maximum power savings). I'm not sure how any of these affect heat production, as opposed to battery power (which I'm not so bothered about, as I'm almost always on mains). Perhaps I should put the whole (Balanced) plan back to defaults or tweak some more. (The ones currently set are in italics.)

Now, the other thing I notice (thanks to Open Hardware Monitor) is that the system seems to have ignored the option (in the same list of Advanced Power Settings) to put a limit on the Processor Power Management. It has max and min settings for the CPU for each power plan, which were at 100% and 5%. I decided to put it to 90% max to throttle the CPU and hopefully at least get through the rest of the Kaspersky scan (which went fine, hardly breaking into a sweat). But OHM reports it's been up to 100% anyway since then, so I'm not sure what's the point.

I found a suggestion to run a system energy report, which was weird - first off, it didn't save a valid html file (which I've also seen other mention of in this USB issue). I read through it in a text editor and fixed the html, and it shows that various USB devices aren't entering Suspend. Nobody seems to know how to fix that. There are also Timer Resolution warnings and "CPU Utilization:Analysis Error". (I've pasted the output below. I messed up some of the formatting copying it off the page, but hopefully it's readable.)

I've heard that Toshiba bloatware is generally a damn nuisance, and I might try uninstalling that additional app for power management in case it's confusing the Windows one (or possibly I have the wrong version - it was a long hard trek to reinstall Windows and get the drivers after my hdd broke, and it's an old, second-hand machine on its third OS and second drive).

Or is the whole issue from sticking an over-voltage power supply into it? I'd been having battery problems and got a new one, then discovered it was mainly/also the power supply. I discovered I had another one from a completely different machine with the same plug, read the spec and researched online, and decided it was worth a shot. It's been showing no obvious problem (unless that's causing this problem!). The spec on the old one is 19V, 3.4A, but when I tested it with a meter, it was cycling up and down all the time, so I don't know what it was actually putting out. I think they usually give out more volts than they say. The 'new' one is rated at 20V, 3A, but it's putting out a steady 21V according to my meter (same polarity, of course, and with a capacitor or whatever they are just short of the business end). I haven't tried any apps reporting voltages yet, as I've no idea what I'd be looking for. I'll get a correct power supply, but I suspect it's something else. If the other was putting out 20V rather than 19V, then 21V is only 5% over, which most sites say should be fine. If it was actually 19V, then 21 is 10% over, which is a bit much.


Sorry for the long complicated story! Maybe something jumps out as definitely wrong and fixable if you're au fait with these things. It would be nice if I could tweak and then run some full-on CPU test, but I'm concerned that overheating it repeatedly might do it irreparable damage. All this may be a bit early and I should see how things go, but if you spot anything at all that I should do something about, be my guest. It's happily tootling at around 42C at the moment.



Power Efficiency Diagnostics Report

Computer NameJF-TOSHScan Time2020-01-07T21:15:08ZScan Duration60 seconds System ManufacturerTOSHIBASystem Product NameSatellite C660BIOS Date05/09/12BIOS Version2.00OS Build7601Platform RolePlatformRoleMobilePlugged IntrueProcess Count69Thread Count1105Report GUID {d192fd5d-6d59-4163-82b6-413ded7e353b} Analysis Results

Errors

USB Suspend:USB Device not Entering Suspend
The USB device did not enter the Suspend state. Processor power management may be prevented if a USB device does not enter the Suspend state when not in use.
Device NameUSB Mass Storage DeviceHost Controller IDPCI\VEN_8086&DEV_3B3CHost Controller LocationPCI bus 0, device 26, function 0Device IDUSB\VID_0BDA&PID_0138Port Path1,3

USB Suspend:USB Device not Entering Suspend
The USB device did not enter the Suspend state. Processor power management may be prevented if a USB device does not enter the Suspend state when not in use.
Device NameUSB Root HubHost Controller IDPCI\VEN_8086&DEV_3B3CHost Controller LocationPCI bus 0, device 26, function 0Device IDUSB\VID_8086&PID_3B3CPort Path

USB Suspend:USB Device not Entering Suspend
The USB device did not enter the Suspend state. Processor power management may be prevented if a USB device does not enter the Suspend state when not in use.
Device NameGeneric USB HubHost Controller IDPCI\VEN_8086&DEV_3B3CHost Controller LocationPCI bus 0, device 26, function 0Device IDUSB\VID_8087&PID_0020Port Path1

Warnings

Platform Timer Resolution:Platform Timer Resolution
The default platform timer resolution is 15.6ms (15625000ns) and should be used whenever the system is idle. If the timer resolution is increased, processor power management technologies may not be effective. The timer resolution may be increased due to multimedia playback or graphical animations.
Current Timer Resolution (100ns units)10000Maximum Timer Period (100ns units)156001

Platform Timer Resolution:Outstanding Timer Request
A program or service has requested a timer resolution smaller than the platform maximum timer resolution.
Requested Period10000Requesting Process ID4000Requesting Process Path\Device\HarddiskVolume2\Program Files (x86)\Kaspersky Lab\Kaspersky Free 20.0\avpui.exe

Power Policy:Sleep timeout is long (Plugged In)
The computer is configured to automatically sleep after longer than 30 minutes.
Timeout (seconds)2700

CPU Utilization:Analysis Error
Analysis was partially unsuccessful. Some results are available, but they may be incomplete.

Information

Platform Timer Resolution:Timer Request Stack
The stack of modules responsible for the lowest platform timer setting in this process.
Requested Period10000Requesting Process ID4000Requesting Process Path\Device\HarddiskVolume2\Program Files (x86)\Kaspersky Lab\Kaspersky Free 20.0\avpui.exe Calling Module Stack\Device\HarddiskVolume2\Windows\SysWOW64\ntdll.dll
\Device\HarddiskVolume2\Windows\SysWOW64\winmm.dll
\Device\HarddiskVolume2\Windows\Microsoft.NET\Framework\v4.0.30319\WPF\wpfgfx_v0400.dll
\Device\HarddiskVolume2\Windows\SysWOW64\kernel32.dll
\Device\HarddiskVolume2\Windows\SysWOW64\ntdll.dll

Power Policy:Active Power Plan
The current power plan in use
Plan Name OEM BalancedPlan GUID{381b4222-f694-41f0-9685-ff5bb260df2e}

Power Policy:Power Plan Personality (On Battery)
The personality of the current power plan when the system is on battery power.
Personality Balanced

Power Policy:Video Quality (On Battery)
Enables Windows Media Player to optimize for quality or power savings when playing video.
Quality Mode Balance Video Quality and Power Savings

Power Policy:Power Plan Personality (Plugged In)
The personality of the current power plan when the system is plugged in.
Personality Balanced

Power Policy:Video quality (Plugged In)
Enables Windows Media Player to optimize for quality or power savings when playing video.
Quality Mode Optimize for Video Quality

System Availability Requests:Analysis Success
Analysis was successful. No energy efficiency problems were found. No information was returned.

Battery:Battery Information
Battery ID41167COMPAL PA3817U-1BRSManufacturerCOMPAL Serial Number41167ChemistryLi-ILong Term1Design Capacity48840Last Full Charge41792

Platform Power Management Capabilities:Supported Sleep States
Sleep states allow the computer to enter low-power modes after a period of inactivity. The S3 sleep state is the default sleep state for Windows platforms. The S3 sleep state consumes only enough power to preserve memory contents and allow the computer to resume working quickly. Very few platforms support the S1 or S2 Sleep states.
S1 Sleep SupportedfalseS2 Sleep SupportedfalseS3 Sleep SupportedtrueS4 Sleep Supportedtrue

Platform Power Management Capabilities:Adaptive Display Brightness is supported.
This computer enables Windows to automatically control the brightness of the integrated display.

Platform Power Management Capabilities:Processor Power Management Capabilities
Effective processor power management enables the computer to automatically balance performance and energy consumption.
Group0Index0Idle (C) State Count2Performance (P) State Count13Throttle (T) State Count0


Platform Power Management Capabilities:Processor Power Management Capabilities
Effective processor power management enables the computer to automatically balance performance and energy consumption.
Group0Index1Idle (C) State Count2Performance (P) State Count13Throttle (T) State Count0

Platform Power Management Capabilities:Processor Power Management Capabilities
Effective processor power management enables the computer to automatically balance performance and energy consumption.
Group0Index2Idle (C) State Count2Performance (P) State Count13Throttle (T) State Count0

Platform Power Management Capabilities:Processor Power Management Capabilities
Effective processor power management enables the computer to automatically balance performance and energy consumption.
Group0Index3Idle (C) State Count2Performance (P) State Count13Throttle (T) State Count0

Correction: the thing nobody seems to be able to fix is to do with USB hubs not going into Selective Suspend - whatever that is - mine is reported as just not going into Suspend. People with that (as per mine) usually say the computer won't sleep, which mine does fine.

Short story: You have a overheating problem.
How old is your laptop? Is the heat sink fan running?

The external power supply voltage isn't critical. It's only used to supply the internal power supply with energy. The 19VDC is converted internally into 12, 5 and maybe in -5V.

I would say that the main problem is dust on the heat sink.

Megahertz07 said:

Short story: You have a overheating problem.

LOL.

How old is your laptop? Is the heat sink fan running?

Not sure how old it is - daughter gave me it 3 years ago, and she probably used it for 3-5 years; had Vista originally on it. The fan is working at various speeds under different loads, and blowing a gale during WEI. First thing I'll do is check it for dust...

The external power supply voltage isn't critical. It's only used to supply the internal power supply with energy. The 19VDC is converted internally into 12, 5 and maybe in -5V.

Good to have that hunch confirmed, thanks.

I would say that the main problem is dust on the heat sink.

I guess it might be good to get the fan off the heatsink connection to clean the fins properly, or if I dare...

SIW2 said:

If you have checked the fan and cleaned out dirt, have you considered replacing the thermal paste?

YouTube
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<Swallows hard> Thanks for those vids (Mmmm, 'termal pasta'). You'll have realised by the delay just swapping the RAM that I'm a bit chicken! (And you're right, I should swap those to check they work first.) I've never replaced thermal paste, but maybe it's time to do that.

Hi Treehouse,

I would upgrade your Ram, supports up to 8Gb, 2 is the bare minimum, will certainly help.

Its a noisy ol beast, my mrs workhorse

The USB3 hub (this model is only usb2 compatible) driver unfortunately does not have a power option to suspend so its allways on, and as far as i know its a global not port specific setting.

As a matter of interest what was plugged into it when you performed the WEI, External drive???

As for its age IF it came with Vista its over 10 years old, i dont think it did, any COA sticker on the underside it will tell you what was installed, or IF you want to run this tool copy/paste the ouput
https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkID=52012


Have you ever reduced the bloatware, and not just the Toshiba stuff theres a lot of unneccessary services/programs running, even KIS adds a VPN service.
check out Black Vipers website

UP the Saints


Roy

Hi Roy - so helpful, you guys - getting all these answers is amazing!

torchwood said:

I would upgrade your Ram, supports up to 8Gb, 2 is the bare minimum, will certainly help.

Funny you should say that - I was just about to put 8GB in. That's why I did the WEI, to get a "before and after". I have just now installed the 8GB, and all seems well on the memory front. Sitting fairly steady at 30% when it would normally be 90+.

Its a noisy ol beast, my mrs workhorse

Well, I think I've got to get used to it making a bit more noise, but it doesn't seem terrible compared to some I've had. In fact my mrs has just bought a new one that I swear would make a decent enough hairdrier when it's working hard.

The USB3 hub (this model is only usb2 compatible) driver unfortunately does not have a power option to suspend so its allways on, and as far as i know its a global not port specific setting.

I see - good to know. Solved that issue.

As a matter of interest what was plugged into it when you performed the WEI, External drive???

AFAIK, nothing. I'd be unlikely to run that with flash or external hdd in. One weird thing I've noticed that I don't think it used to do is it shows the E: drive in Explorer constantly, even though nothing is in it. I thought it only used to show the D: (DVD), which I've got used to being shown always on Windows. The E: drive is the card reader. I could be wrong and that's always been there in the directories. It's no biggie, just thought I'd mention it.

As for its age IF it came with Vista its over 10 years old, i dont think it did, any COA sticker on the underside it will tell you what was installed, or IF you want to run this tool copy/paste the ouput

https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkID=52012

The sticker is too worn (probably consistent with +10 years!). I had a heck of a job getting a fresh install activated when my HDD failed. MS helped sort it eventually. It was 7 Home Premium prior to that, as it is now, but I think I was told it was originally Vista (with a free upgrade or something). I ran the diag tool, but I'm cautious about posting all the info - is there something in particular that would tell me, or is it safe to post publicly? (Doesn't matter, but might be interesting to know when it was manufactured, and it could indicate the thermal paste has had a long time drying out!)

Have you ever reduced the bloatware, and not just the Toshiba stuff theres a lot of unneccessary services/programs running, even KIS adds a VPN service.
check out Black Vipers website

When I reinstalled drivers, it was a bit hit-and-miss trying to work out what was necessary and what was bloat (the Toshiba stuff, that is). I've not really looked into other kinds. I'll have a read of that site, cheers.

If you don't take the heat sink from the CPU you don't need to change the thermal paste.
Just take the Fan out (if possible) and clean the heat sink fins. If you blow air or use a vacuum cleaner, block the fan so it doesn't rotate (to avoid over spinning)

Hi Treehouse,

Dont worry if you post it - NO personal details on it, thousands of them on web.
there is an upgrade indicator, might not be present as you called MS
as for its age the Bios date will likely be the earliest in the report, as you've re-installed

try a UV light on the sticker, might show up.

There's no real reason to keep any of the Toshiba stuff, W7 has all the same programs/options built-in
(they wont be updating anything anyway - back-up support now provided by Dynabook)

general
Install Intel's driver checker, only once check/update as required then remove
https://downloadmirror.intel.com/284...-Installer.exe

if you dont use sleep/hibernate
Hibernate - Enable or Disable
PCIe Link State Power Management - Turn On or Off in Windows
note you will need to change certain power options
Run MS Disk clean-up tool if you've NEVER used it then it acts like a update install with a before and after operation hence could take a while
turn off disk defragment service, you have an SSD
Use Macrium free as a back-up, and on the Wife's if you need Brownie points


There is tutorials sub forum here, just punch in what you want to know about


Roy

Do clean the fan to help clear overheating.

treehouse said:

Correction: the thing nobody seems to be able to fix is to do with USB hubs not going into Selective Suspend - whatever that is - mine is reported as just not going into Suspend. People with that (as per mine) usually say the computer won't sleep, which mine does fine.

treehouse said:

Power Efficiency Diagnostics Report

Computer NameJF-TOSHScan Time2020-01-07T21:15:08ZScan Duration60 seconds System ManufacturerTOSHIBASystem Product NameSatellite C660BIOS Date05/09/12BIOS Version2.00OS Build7601Platform RolePlatformRoleMobilePlugged IntrueProcess Count69Thread Count1105Report GUID {d192fd5d-6d59-4163-82b6-413ded7e353b} Analysis Results

Errors

USB Suspend:USB Device not Entering Suspend
The USB device did not enter the Suspend state. Processor power management may be prevented if a USB device does not enter the Suspend state when not in use.
Device NameUSB Mass Storage DeviceHost Controller IDPCI\VEN_8086&DEV_3B3CHost Controller LocationPCI bus 0, device 26, function 0Device IDUSB\VID_0BDA&PID_0138Port Path1,3

This is a card reader device? Does it have any memory cards plugged in? Can you plug in memory card and remove it with safely remove USB device, without any trouble? Can you disable the card reader in device manager?