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Windows 7: SSD - To Defrag or not to Defrag

View Poll Results: SSDs should be defragged
True 6 6.59%
False 85 93.41%
Voters: 91. You may not vote on this poll

28 Aug 2011   #11
GeneO

Windows 10 Pro. EFI boot partition, full EFI boot
 
 

I am sorry, I don't know what all of this discussion is about. SSDs do not need and should not be defragmented. Defragmentation is only beneficial for serial accessed devices like hard disks. SSDs are random access devices and you will see no benefit. In fact, defragmenting an SSD will be detrimental to its lifetime. It results in a huge amount of erase cycles which will shorten the lifetime of NAND chips in the device.


My System SpecsSystem Spec
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28 Aug 2011   #12
DaGuru

Windows 7 64bit
 
 

The discussion is because GBelin thought DEfraging would solve his problems with Partitioning a C:\ drive further but it won't because his C:\ partition was taking the full drive space. I was trying to explain to him how to delete his old partition and create a new... he was confussed thinking defrag would move files so he could further partition a C:\ drive but no matter how many files he moves you can't further partition a partition. Had nothing to do with SSD but was clarrifying partitioning for GBelin because he was confused about partitioning.
My System SpecsSystem Spec
28 Aug 2011   #13
marsmimar

Microsoft Community Contributor Award Recipient

 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by DaGuru View Post
The discussion is because GBelin thought DEfraging would solve his problems with Partitioning a C:\ drive further but it won't because his C:\ partition was taking the full drive space. I was trying to explain to him how to delete his old partition and create a new... he was confussed thinking defrag would move files so he could further partition a C:\ drive but no matter how many files he moves you can't further partition a partition. Had nothing to do with SSD but was clarrifying partitioning for GBelin because he was confused about partitioning.
His/her post was more than 2 years ago. Not very likely he/she will read your response. And his/her last activity on ths Forum was 3/16/11.

Windows 7 Forums - View Profile: gbelin

But maybe your response will help someone else.
My System SpecsSystem Spec
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28 Aug 2011   #14
DaGuru

Windows 7 64bit
 
 

I also saw that it was over 2 years after post but only after I submitted it already oops. I still thought the info might help someone else out.

Ps... I am also searching this post for info about SSD. The only thing that scares me/confuses me a bit is the diskpart.exe some suggest to run. I found a post with scripted cmds for aligning in 1024kb sectors but not sure if 1024kb is the most optimal/fastest sector sizes I should choose for a SATA III 60GB ADATA s511 drive. I am 9+ years as A+, Dell Cert and NET+ but first SSD attempt So questions are ...

1. is Aligning the drive properly with Diskpart.exe absolutely necessary? Getting mixed reviews some say yes some say no and the ones posting to newegg hating on the drive might not be aligning it properly b/c some forums/reviews/how to's say if you don't the OS will freeze and crash. Maybe that is why it is crashingfor some of the posters on newegg because they are not runing diskpart.exe.
2. What is "Triming" the drive. Is that the same as diskpart? I have heard some referrences to that.
3. What would be the ideal sector size .. .4kb? 1024kb? Somewhere inbetween? What is the associated differences ? smaller sector size less wasted space and faster but more sectors I would assume and 1024kb larger sectors but less to address? What's the short and sweet verdict on best size to set sectors to?

All in all techs I work with say it's easier to setup an SSD than it looks and they didn't use diskpart and they have had SSD drives for over 4months with no problems... but I don't want to miss anything I need to do and the aligning process seems legit .. so what do you recommend Marismar ?

Reference links for what I have researched so far.
http://www.ocztechnologyforum.com/fo...erstand-format.

http://www.ocztechnologyforum.com/fo...e-working-life.

http://www.ocztechnology.com/files/s...consumer_1.pdf
My System SpecsSystem Spec
29 Aug 2011   #15
marsmimar

Microsoft Community Contributor Award Recipient

 
 

As with most things, there will always be at least two sides to every discussion ... yes you should, no you shouldn't ... always do it, never do it, sometimes do it ... etc. One of the most knowledgeable people I know (on this forum, at least) is Bare Foot Kid. He recommends using Diskpart as part of the initial optimization process. As I understand it (and here I have to insert my usual disclaimer - I'm not an expert in anything) Diskpart helps by preventing misalignment in cache, or wasted cache whether it's an SSD or HDD. While it could be argued that there are no moving parts in an SSD so alignment shouldn't even be an issue, there's still a finite number of read/write cycles before an SSD fails. Anything that can be done to minimize unnecessary reads/writes should be a good thing. You might want to take a look at a tutorial Bare Foot Kid wrote. I haven't heard of any problems following his instructions.

SSD / HDD : Optimize for Windows Reinstallation

Another useful tutorial is this (although I think I'd refrain from the tweaks);

TweakTown's Solid State Drive Optimization Guide :: TweakTown USA Edition

As to trimming and sector size, you may find some useful info on this Microsoft blog specifically how Windows 7 relates to SSDs.

Support and Q&A for Solid-State Drives - Engineering Windows 7 - Site Home - MSDN Blogs
My System SpecsSystem Spec
29 Aug 2011   #16
DaGuru

Windows 7 64bit
 
 
Diskpart.exe thumbs up!

Masimar,
Thanks for the honest and logical post. Seems like a valid point to use Diskpart.exe. I also have been reading on it and it sounded like a good Idea to me as well but I was thrown off by the "na... you don't need to do that" by several people; but, that's not to say everyone who said that could be 100% correct. In fact, as stated I think Diskpart.exe makes perfect sense and maybe the guys having problems on Newegg are ones that didn't use it... not sure speculation but I'll read and learn more about Diskpart.exe now that it's confirmed as a good idea to run.

Also, just to clarify, you mentioned quote "there's still a finite number of read/write cycles before an SSD fails. Anything that can be done to minimize unnecessary reads/writes should be a good thing" ... I think you are confusing that part with my second unfamiliar term which was "trimming". Sorry not trying to correct you but I just learned today myself from a coworker that "trimming" is the method by which you reduce write times to the SSD not aligning. As you may already know, SSD drives have a limited life span on write cycles. The SSD I am interested in has a 1,000,000 write life span. Read does not play into this; from what I understand, only write goes against the life of the drive (my disclaimer i could be wrong also lolz )
So to recap...
1. Diskpart.exe is a good Idea that not everyone may be aware of or is doing and it's downloadable straight from Microsoft's web site. http://www.microsoft.com/download/en/details.aspx?id=23711
2. Trimming is a different process and is also a good idea to reduce wear from SSD writing to sectors.
3. The ADATA S511 series SATA III SSD drives come with both an aligning tool and a trim tool (two separate programs) in the package along with a bracket !! WOOOT ...
Thanks again for the research, links (i'll check them out in bit) and helping me find the answers...
Peace.
PS merry Xmas everyone! Here are two sites with direct commands for using Diskpart.exe in a scripted order enjoy!

With 4kb offset http://www.ocztechnologyforum.com/forum/showthread.php?48309-Partition-alignment-importance-under-Windows-XP-(32-bit-and-64-bit)..why-it-helps-with-stuttering-and-increases-drive-working-life


With 1024kb offset (this seems to be the more agreed apon setting)
https://www.sevenforums.com/tutorials/149969-ssd-install-transfer-operating-system.html
My System SpecsSystem Spec
29 Aug 2011   #17
DaGuru

Windows 7 64bit
 
 

OOPS .. correction

The link for the 4kb offset seems to be for XP only not vista or 7; however, I will leave it up for our peeps still in the stone age lolz jk.
My System SpecsSystem Spec
29 Aug 2011   #18
Hopalong X

Windows7 Pro 64bit SP-1; Windows XP Pro 32bit
 
 

For Windows 7. SSD - Install and Transfer the Operating System

A fresh install of Windows 7 from CD automatically sets this. Otherwise you need software or CMD.
Quote:
Partition ### Type Size Offset
------------- ---------------- ------- -------
Partition 1 Primary 59 GB
1024 KB - but 64KB or any number divisible by 4 is also good. The offset has to be divisible by 4.



My System SpecsSystem Spec
28 Sep 2011   #19
DaGuru

Windows 7 64bit
 
 
Thanks Hopalong X

Thanks H-X

In my readings I didn't see anything that said Windows set it automatically to 1024kb but I'm glad you pointed that out. I quite possibly just missed it while skimming. One of the articles did say that Windows 7 did a better job than XP at handling an SSD so maybe the 1024kb default is what did the better job.


Ps. While on the subject, from what I hear (from tech peers) is that the 4kb offset is the fastest but since you're writing to smaller sectors, and subsequently a ton more of them, the down side is more heat from SSD. Can you confirm/deny? ... Is 64kb a happy medium between 1024kb and 4kb and allow speeds above 500mbs read/writes?
Please let me … Thanks

pss. Diskpart.exe is both downloadable software from Microsoft and works with CMD .. the cmd strings to use in diskpart.exe for a 1024kb offset are in one of the links.
My System SpecsSystem Spec
29 Sep 2011   #20
Hopalong X

Windows7 Pro 64bit SP-1; Windows XP Pro 32bit
 
 

Let Windows set it at 1024kb. You want a multiple of 4 as the offset not 4kb or 64kb.
Going smaller may not be a problem but why make a possible problem so go with the 1024kb.

Sometimes some third party software will set it at 2048kb which is a multiple of 4 and is okay.

I would not go smaller than 1024kb on purpose. Let Windows set it when you install.
If using a third party software to use an existing image many of them automatically use 1024kb.


Mike
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 SSD - To Defrag or not to Defrag




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