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Windows 7: Are firewalls really needed?

20 Sep 2010   #21
Maxxwire

Windows 7 x64 Home Premium
 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by Keiichi25 View Post
I will have to say that you guys need to at least agree that having the OS using a software firewall is recommended, regardless if it is MS or some other party for some specific reasons, all of which are with regards to security, be it from within the OS or adding another layer within your own network.
I'll agree to that. Although I once had the Norton Firewall and I found that it also programs freely access the internet. Its really good to see that the Win 7 firewall is so much improved!

~Maxx~


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20 Sep 2010   #22
jav

Windows 7 Ultimate x86 SP1
 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by Maxxwire View Post

Your flagrant disregard for the supreme importance of the privacy of personal data and opinion that it is not in any way security related is frightening. As far as privacy is concerned its everyone's right and not just those who are computer adept.
I just believe that there should be better ways of addressing this problem.
Anti-monopolist, Anti-Thrust organisations?
yes, on second thought I am probably being too optimistic of them..

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by Maxxwire View Post
I will address the Comodo Firewall Pro because I'm quite familiar with it and contrary to what you believe about software Firewalls anyone can program it to stop all unwanted outbound traffic simply by placing it in Custom Policy Mode and it will alert the user to any and all outbound traffic and all the user has to do is allow or block!
As I told you before, I am not discouraging you from doing so. And I am not saying it's wrong.

I just can't see how average home user (who doesn't care and bother about IT security) will know if he should allow svchost.exe from communicating into outbound connection in port 80.
Or he will not care and will just press allow. Or block and will block access for Windows Update for example which will cause even more troubles.

You see for so many years people can't be made into using LUA, which is not rocket science. They cried out when there was created easy to-use, straightforward UAC.

So, I doubt they will bother learning what each service does and from which port it should communicate.
Let them try. Maybe I am wrong. (Hopefully I am wrong) And people will start using it.

But I can't see it happing in near future. I can't see giving non tech-savvy users outbound firewall.

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by Maxxwire View Post

I'll agree to that. Although I once had the Norton Firewall and I found that it also programs freely access the internet. Its really good to see that the Win 7 firewall is so much improved!

~Maxx~
So, do I.
Most of the average users are good to go with Win 7 firewall itself. They don't need all those new HIPS and 2-way firewalls.

In my opinion they are created just for us, tech-savvy people.

They have too much power, and as we know with power comes responsibilities.
So it is too much responsibilities for average computer illiterate users.

But even though we have some disagreements, I hope we came into some conclusion here?
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20 Sep 2010   #23
Maxxwire

Windows 7 x64 Home Premium
 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by jav View Post

So it is too much responsibilities for average computer illiterate users.

Most of the average users are good to go with Win 7 firewall itself. They don't need all those new HIPS and 2-way firewalls.
Could you possibly start making some constructive comments addressing the skill level of the average user that reads these posts here on the Forum instead of invoking what 'computer illiterate users' might be able to understand about computer security because they just don't show up that often around here if ever?

I started using UAC on Vista and then on Win 7 and I just could not get used to the redundant nagging. Replacing UAC with the Matousec top rated HIPS program finally gave me freedom on the desktop because it remembers my instructions and never ever repeats a permission request. To me HIPS is nothing fancy just complete and quiet control of everything that runs on the desktop.

PS- The Windows 7 Firewall is a 2-way Firewall and its there because they need it.

~Maxx~
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My System SpecsSystem Spec
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20 Sep 2010   #24
jav

Windows 7 Ultimate x86 SP1
 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by Maxxwire View Post

Could you possibly start making some constructive comments addressing the skill level of the average user that reads these posts here on the Forum instead of invoking what 'computer illiterate users' might be able to understand about computer security because they just don't show up that often around here if ever?
Let's see, I am talking about what 75-85% of Windows users?
oh, who cares let's don't count them.

Forum readers...
They don't really care about our posts. They are clever enough to analyse situation to themselves.

Why we should only count forum readers?
Look back, why was this thread started. This thread was addressing everyone, not forum readers.
So as I told you I am addressing most of the Windows users who don't have a clue or will not bother about Windows security..

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by Maxxwire View Post
I started using UAC on Vista and then on Win 7 and I just could not get used to the redundant nagging. Replacing UAC with the Matousec top rated HIPS program finally gave me freedom on the desktop because it remembers my instructions and never ever repeats a permission request. To me HIPS is nothing fancy just complete and quiet control of everything that runs on the desktop.

PS- The Windows 7 Firewall is a 2-way Firewall.
Because UAC and HIPS are the same things............. no
It's not UAC only job to warn you..

Anyway dose your experience apply to users mentioned above? no...

Yeah, Windows 7 firewall is 2-way.
But what is the point if by default settings anything, I mean anything is allow to outbound communicate.
This default rules will not be changed by users I mentioned (which are majority).
They will be changed by only handful people. Something like 0.5% of Windows users?
well done, Thats an achievement.

So, in default settings it's outbound protection doesn't count...

EDIT: Anyway, ok. I will stop my arguments from now on.
It's not going anywhere.
Sorry for starting it.. Peace.
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20 Sep 2010   #25
Maxxwire

Windows 7 x64 Home Premium
 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by jav View Post
Anyway, ok. I will stop my arguments from now on.
It's not going anywhere.
Sorry for starting it.. Peace.
Its sad that we couldn't have had a constructive conversation about genuine security concerns and effective methods to deal with the many ways in which each of us as Win 7 users are having our personal information absconded with each day by the many different manifestations of spyware on our computers all of which can be thwarted by using a software firewall.

~Maxx~
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My System SpecsSystem Spec
20 Sep 2010   #26
Maxxwire

Windows 7 x64 Home Premium
 
 

Do any of the Members who are reading this thread have any constructive comments and solutions regarding the use of a software Firewall to enhance the prevention of programs sending personal information they have gathered in our Win 7 computers out to the internet as so many of todays freeware programs have been instructed to do?

~Maxx~
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My System SpecsSystem Spec
20 Sep 2010   #27
Hopalong X

Windows7 Pro 64bit SP-1; Windows XP Pro 32bit
 
 

Maxxwire

Just one.

I have my firewall up and keeping it up.
I don't know exactly the "how or why" but I know the results of not having one.

A bit like the CPU and Ram modules. Kind of understand the basics but not all the technical.
I do know the motherboard isn't going to do much without them.

Sort of a necessity by my thinking.
Mike
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20 Sep 2010   #28
deepakumar

windows 7 Ultimate x86
 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by Maxxwire View Post
Do any of the Members who are reading this thread have any constructive comments and solutions regarding the use of a software Firewall to enhance the prevention of programs sending personal information they have gathered in our Win 7 computers out to the internet as so many of todays freeware programs have been instructed to do?

~Maxx~
.
@ Maxx i have used Comodo Firewall & Windows Firewall...i found Comodo much better then Windows though Comodo keep telling you at every stage while installing a software (changing system files,registry) which i found great but as @ jav said most of non-tech user won't know whats happening & while simply accept everything which might lead a virus enter the network...Windows Firewall is as well great but it allowed a virus without my knowledge & after a reboot i couldn't log in & then i have to do the repair to get things going for me ...i don't know how that happened ...but i agree with both u & jav but would like to tell you that i'm not using any Firewall & there are many people like me who are not using any firewall...i'm not saying that 1 shouldn't but like u 2 i'll say every1 should use a firewall if its 2 way then great!!!
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20 Sep 2010   #29
deepakumar

windows 7 Ultimate x86
 
 

Hey Maxx i want to know what's your take on Comodo Firewall vs Windows Firewall???
i'm thinking of getting my firewall up though i use internet cautiously but the world is full of uncertainties & surprises...!!!! i'm sure you agree on that?
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20 Sep 2010   #30
Maxxwire

Windows 7 x64 Home Premium
 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by Hopalong X View Post
I have my firewall up and keeping it up.
I don't know exactly the "how or why" but I know the results of not having one.

Kind of understand the basics but not all the technical.
Mike
And that's all the basic fundamental understanding that's needed. Fortunately if someone wants to gain a more in depth knowledge of how to control there are plenty of Firewall experts who are more than willing to share what they know.

Although I'm no expert I do know that its a good idea to be aware of what is going on in your Firewall. A good example of this was something that I found a while back in the top rated Comodo Defense+ HIPS log (which is a much higher level of desktop security than UAC which it replaced as you can see below) of rundll32.exe opening each and every one of my programs along with many of the .dll's that they use in preparation for a regularly scheduled report to MS. At first I was totally shocked because I had never seen this before in Vista and then I learned that this particular style of intense and in depth information gathering was new to Win 7.



This is just a small portion of the regularly scheduled comprehensive information gathering session that went on for several hours just as it does in all Win 7 computers! I had no idea how to trace this down, but within the hour I was able to end it forever with help from the vast security conscience community of computer users available on the internet. If you want I can in turn show you how to stop this regularly scheduled gathering of information from your Win 7 computer before it even reaches the Firewall.

~Maxx~
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 Are firewalls really needed?




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