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Windows 7: UAC. Have you turned your's off?

10 Nov 2009   #51
yowanvista

Windows 10 Pro x64, Arch Linux
 
 

Completely turned it off
It was preventing some apps from installing
Too much annoying messages


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10 Nov 2009   #52
esteban

7 Ultimate, Debian Squeeze, #! Statler
 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by H2SO4 View Post
All of that is configurable (UAC policy settings). It's actually far preferable to set UAC to "always allow" (and thus be invisible) than to disable the UAC. Both are bad news from a security standpoint, but the former less so.
I know that's configurable. My point is that Linux has a built-in superuser above the initial account. Windows' lack of this feature is what allows apps to run with admin privileges, and thus Windows demands UAC. If I want to prevent/restrict a regular user from system modification in Windows by using UAC, those settings also apply to me, and that's what is annoying.

You kind of said this in the second part of your post, but I wanted to clarify.
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10 Nov 2009   #53
logicearth

Windows 10 Pro (x64)
 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by esteban View Post
I know that's configurable. My point is that Linux has a built-in superuser above the initial account. Windows' lack of this feature is what allows apps to run with admin privileges, and thus Windows demands UAC.
No, Windows does not lack that feature. You can have a single power user, aka., root. Howevr, by default it is configurd with an inclusive of all that are part of the administrators group. You are able to change that!

UAC is not required for that. What UAC is is but a convenience to run as a standard user but be able to get administrative power when required, without switching accounts. It is also part of the Mandatory Integrity Control. Mandatory Integrity Control - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Those that are part of the Administrators group get a UAC prompt with an OK or Cancel choice. Those part of the User group must enter in the credentials of a Administrative user or Cancel.
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10 Nov 2009   #54
macgyver2

Windows 7 Ultimate x64
 
 

There are many ways to protect a computers security and the biggest problems is always the USER. Now I run my computer as an admin account 100% of the time, I visit sites that would be considered HIGH risk(security testing), I have UAC turned off, I have NIS 2009 installed and I don't have any issues with the security of my laptop. The single time I did was when I was setting up my router security and had someone access my router which then gave them access to my laptop, which as far as I know I have all sharing turned off ( that guy was stealing info from anyone he could and is currently in jail waiting for his court case, he was moving from Apt to Apt stealing anything he could access wirelessly) I have not had a virus or other threat on my computer unless I put it there in the 20+ years I have been a computer user. the only secure computer is a 100% no external access either network or via any type of external media.

I test demo software and other stuff basic users like to install and am able to monitor my system and the affect it has without UAC telling me. So for basic users yes UAC is great, but for techs or people like me who want to find out what will happen to a system it can become a problem. for example networking sites have ads for making a cartoon of your photo, my sister in law installed it and months later had a Trojan her UAC isn't disabled. I disabled mine and installed the same program (we have the same laptop) I was able to find the issue with the software without UAC and when I had UAC running at high it didn't do anything to prevent that software from compromising the system. So I don't see that its any better then other firewall type software that offer the same feature. The only difference I see is its basiclly free but I think it still needs a lot more work.

Security is always going to be an issue no matter how a computer is used because there will always be someone who thinks they want access to something that isn't their own for many different reason. All software that guards the computer will have flaws and I can't wait for the day that we put AI into our security and it determines that the user is the security risk and wants to delete that risk.
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10 Nov 2009   #55
H2SO4

Win7x64
 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by macgyver2 View Post
...the biggest problems is always the USER. Now I run my computer as an admin account 100% of the time...
Mistakes
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10 Nov 2009   #56
pparks1

Windows 7 Ultimate x64
 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by macgyver2 View Post
when I had UAC running at high it didn't do anything to prevent that software from compromising the system.
Of course it didn't. That's not what it is supposed to do. The UAC system does NOT prevent a machine from being infected. The UAC system does not stop a virus. The UAC system does NOT prevent malware from being installed. You might was well have said, after running the UAC system my computer's hard drive still became fragmented over time.

The UAC system informs you, the admin, when an application is trying to elevate itself to have admin rights. If you have the slider bar all the way to the top, the UAC system will inform you, the admin, when you do something that needs to elevate to admin status. Either way, if you say yes, it elevates and does WHATEVER it was going to do. The UAC system does not step in and further try to prevent anything from happening.

I still cannot believe how many people think that UAC is supposed to stop these types of problems. It's a notification system, it allows you to escalate to an admin without switching user accounts. It does not provide the functionality of an AV application or an anti-malware application.
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10 Nov 2009   #57
esteban

7 Ultimate, Debian Squeeze, #! Statler
 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by logicearth View Post
Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by esteban View Post
I know that's configurable. My point is that Linux has a built-in superuser above the initial account. Windows' lack of this feature is what allows apps to run with admin privileges, and thus Windows demands UAC.
No, Windows does not lack that feature. You can have a single power user, aka., root.
Single power user = nothing above initial account.
My System SpecsSystem Spec
10 Nov 2009   #58
logicearth

Windows 10 Pro (x64)
 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by macgyver2 View Post
...my sister in law installed it and months later had a Trojan her UAC isn't disabled... I had UAC running at high it didn't do anything to prevent that software from compromising the system.
Because UAC is not a security boundary. UAC does not stop the user from clicking allow and running whatever they want with administrative powers. It is not some anti-malware that scans applications, as far as it is concern malware is the same as Firefox or any other application. I do not understand why that is so hard to understand.

UAC is a convenience for not running as admin only when it is required to do so WITHOUT switching accounts.
My System SpecsSystem Spec
10 Nov 2009   #59
pparks1

Windows 7 Ultimate x64
 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by logicearth View Post
UAC is a convenience for not running as admin only when it is required to do so WITHOUT switching accounts.
I hear ya. Everytime I see these posts, I just shake my head. I try to ignore them and do something else...but I just cannot keep myself from posting.
My System SpecsSystem Spec
10 Nov 2009   #60
logicearth

Windows 10 Pro (x64)
 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by esteban View Post
Single power user = nothing above initial account.
Yes there is. First of all the all powerful user on Windows is SYSTEM. It has even more power then the Administrator account. The Administrator account has more power then those accounts that are part of the Administrators group. And the permissions that are applied to the Administrators group can be revoked very easily because everything in Windows is governed by ACLs and those ACLs are configurable to micro levels.

I do not expect you to know the how deep ACLs really go in Windows or how user accounts are handled.
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 UAC. Have you turned your's off?




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