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Windows 7: is it bad to turn off user account control?

21 Jun 2010   #51
Chris K

Vista Premium
 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by zzz2496 View Post
.....UAC will prompt you if something wants to install and appropriately an install will need administrative privilege, in a sense UAC will help you NOT get the infection... but by using LUA, you WON'T even be able to install... in a way it's MUCH SAFER than UAC. ....
Indeed - my point in nut shell

I'm not suggesting switching off UAC (i think it's redundant) - just saying that ever since XP, all you need to do is run day-2-day on a 'user only account' and you wont/cant have problem - you haven't given yourself enough permission


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21 Jun 2010   #52
malexous

Arch Linux 64-bit
 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by Chris K View Post
you can play anywhere you like with full knowledge that your PC is pretty bulletproof
At least, you didn't claim it is completely bulletproof.

It's not and you shouldn't just play anywhere.
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21 Jun 2010   #53
Chris K

Vista Premium
 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by malexous View Post
Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by Chris K View Post
you can play anywhere you like with full knowledge that your PC is pretty bulletproof
At least, you didn't claim it is completely bulletproof.

It's not and you shouldn't just play anywhere.
It is pretty bullet proof, and you can play anywhere whilst you're logged in as user only

Only thing you are suseptable to is what is already installed/infested your PC (you have executed as administrator)
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21 Jun 2010   #54
zzz2496

Windows7 Ultimate 64bit
 
 

**Sigh**... This is going too far, for those who want complete bulletproof computing, go use the "Guest" account, that will give you complete bulletproof computing.

zzz2496
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21 Jun 2010   #55
malexous

Arch Linux 64-bit
 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by zzz2496 View Post
**Sigh**... This is going too far, for those who want complete bulletproof computing, go use the "Guest" account, that will give you complete bulletproof computing.

zzz2496
Not according to Marco Giuliani. Is Limited User Account enough? Not really...

Quote:
This dirty job can be done even from a guest account; even from there it is possible to intercept and log keystrokes.
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21 Jun 2010   #56
Faladu

Windows 7 Ultimate Retail Box (64-bit installed) + Service Pack 1
 
 

UAC and the 7 Firewall were 2 things I toasted immediately.
I use Winpatrol, Avast! Internet Security Suite (firewall/antivirus/malware/etc), and Boostspeed all the time.

Secondary apps used as needed, almost never: Spybot, Hijackthis (only as last resort, very dangerous app), Spyware Blaster, and Malwarebyte's Anti-Malware.

Other things to consider: HOSTS file manipulation (search on it)
Try this safer search page: startpage.com (you go through it when you click results, but can go direct if you want too)
WOT is a good add-on for site ratings/warnings.
I use Firefox primarily, with Opera as backup, have tried others, I always wind up back at Firefox, user since beta v.92 several years ago.
My System SpecsSystem Spec
21 Jun 2010   #57
pparks1

Windows 7 Ultimate x64
 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by zzz2496 View Post
It's better to use a real limited user account than to use a crippled admin account with lots and lots of UAC checkpoints.
It's just too bad that the average user is never going to go through that hassle. Thus, we have UAC which is a nice medium to fit a more typical Windows user.

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by Tepid View Post
The simple fact is,, UAC can and does prevent programs from running that require Admin rights.
Plain and simple,, stupid idea or not, it's a fact. You have said it yourself that, that is what it does.

So, to get back on full topic of,,,,
Should anyone turn off UAC or not?

As it works the way it is intended and it does work.
The answer is No, you should not.

What one does in reality is their own business. And not my problem, till they start complaining about getting infected or having other issues and you find out that it might have been preventable, but they disabled a tool that could have saved them the grief in the long run. My answer will always be,, plain and simple, because it does what it is supposed to do,, run as standard user with UAC enabled. Is it the best perfect all around wonderful god like utility that we hope and wish it would be? No. But, it's not a useless tool either as long as people pay attention to why it is popping.

This is a controversy that will go down in the annals of all that is MS, just as activating XP did back in the day, just as Run with no page file or what, still is today (even though it's has been proven time and again that it is best to run with MS recommended page file sizes regardless of how much ram you have installed).

So, why do I say run with UAC is my standard answer?

Because, I know people, and the largest majority of people asking this question, do not know what they are really doing, are not really all that safe of surfers or stewards of their own security. I also am not here to tell anyone how to run their own system or protect them from themselves. That's not my intention, nor my job, and frankly speaking, I don't want anyone forcing it on me. But, we also all (as techs, or more experienced users) provide the (not sure how to put this) ,, best answers, not always as we ourselves run our system but how a system is intended to run, to the best of our knowledge. Giving security advice that works for us, is not something that always works for everyone else. Spitting out some of the answers I have seen in this thread, many are well, irresponsible. Bad Advice.

Putting even more simply, and which may become my standard answer to this particular question is...

Q. Should one turn off UAC or not?

A. If you have to ask that question, then No, you Should not turn off UAC.

Actually, I'll make that part of my sig.
Nice post...I wanted to give you rep but I cannot at this point until i give others Rep.

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by Tepid View Post
This is the exact reason why I state, use Standard User with UAC enabled.
Far better protection in my opinion. And the way Win 7 is meant to be used.
I might just try going this route for a while on a box at work and see how things work out.

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by zzz2496 View Post
**Sigh**for those who want complete bulletproof computing,
For those people, just turn off your computers and find another hobby. Regardless of what you use and how you use it...there is no such thing as "bulletproff" where software and user interaction is intertwined.
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21 Jun 2010   #58
zzz2496

Windows7 Ultimate 64bit
 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by pparks1 View Post
...For those people, just turn off your computers and find another hobby. Regardless of what you use and how you use it...there is no such thing as "bulletproff" where software and user interaction is intertwined.
Ahh, yes... The on/off switch is the best solution for bulletproof computing...
... Particularly when it's on "OFF" position...

zzz2496
My System SpecsSystem Spec
21 Jun 2010   #59
zzz2496

Windows7 Ultimate 64bit
 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by malexous View Post
Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by zzz2496 View Post
**Sigh**... This is going too far, for those who want complete bulletproof computing, go use the "Guest" account, that will give you complete bulletproof computing.

zzz2496
Not according to Marco Giuliani. Is Limited User Account enough? Not really...

Quote:
This dirty job can be done even from a guest account; even from there it is possible to intercept and log keystrokes.
If you read that blog post, you should've understand that yes, the malware can still capture your keystrokes, BUT ONLY your keystrokes. If your wife logged in using her own user, her account won't have that nasty keylogger...

You should understand by now that LUA and Guest account can indeed limit the damage the malware/virus might cause. But in the case of Guest, you can set Windows to delete Guest account's account content upon log off (or was it not to save anything? I forgot), the point is, using Guest won't save anything...
Just like using browser in anonymous mode (dump or reject every cookie it receives).

As I said earlier, even IF you got an infection, the infection will run amok in your particular user ONLY. It won't be able to "destroy" Windows because it's running as a Limited user, your limited user account. It can't do anything as far as system destruction... Your files (documents, music, movies) might get "hit" by it, but you do have a backup of those files, right? It's much much muuuuch safer than using UAC IMHO. In a sense, yes you might caught an infection, but the infection is only affecting your limited user, and can't/won't be able to install a global service.

Again...

Here's the difference, let's say you got a keylogger installed (a malware) in your account. That keylogger will always run when you login, when your wife login (using her own LUA), her profile won't have that nasty keylogger... That is MUCH SAFER than you voluntarily clicked the UAC "OK" button because you need some crack to run some illegitimate app, and got your whole computer taken over (with LUA, only your user is hijacked, the system is safe).

I repeat, LUA + UAC = moot. As for security products (MSE, Avast, etc), it's common sense to use them in ANY KIND of Windows installation...

zzz2496

Quote:
At the end, be careful: a standard LUA is really useful to avoid pc infections, but it is not enough by itself.
My System SpecsSystem Spec
21 Jun 2010   #60
malexous

Arch Linux 64-bit
 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by zzz2496 View Post
...
Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by malexous View Post
Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by Chris K View Post
Create Your own account as 'user' only - you can play anywhere you like with full knowledge that your PC is pretty bulletproof - nothing can be installed on your PC in the background - to install anything you will have to switch accounts
LUA doesn't stop malware from running and stealing your data. It just prevents them from embedding into your system.
LUA doesn't stop all malware from doing harm. That's my point.
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 is it bad to turn off user account control?




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