Dual Network Controllers

[seekermeister]

A thought occurred to me, my motherboard has dual controllers (Nvidia nForce & Marvel Yukon) the one used depends on which ethernet slot is used. What would happen if I ran a cable to both at the same time...better, worse or no effect? Part of the reason for my question is that on random occassions, the LAN connection to this computer is lost momentarily and can be annoying, depending on when that occurs. I was thinking that a dual connection might provide a failsafe, but then it might also create other problems. I prefer to ask a question now, than to experiment on my own.

 

[loaba]

I googled "dual network controllers" which led me to "network adapter teaming". Apparently it is possible to team two NICs together, but it appears like it's a server deal. You would do it as a failsafe measure, with twin adapters (if there is software available for them.)

 

[seekermeister]

Hmm, I know that it is possible to pair two independent connections via two separate modems for higher bandwidth...at least with old dialup connections. Of course, that entails a higher ISP fee also. That does require a sort of software bridge to accomplish, but since these controllers already have their own drivers, and could be fed the same signal, I'm hoping that they would simply back each other up. If this is not possible, I don't understand why the motherboard manufacturer went to the expensive of having two controllers on their product? I guess it is just something that I'll have to play with.

 

[chev65]

The bigger problem is that your Nvidia chipset drivers are causing your network to cut out which is a common problem on certain machines with Nvidia chipsets.

To fix the cutting out network use a different chipset driver, sometimes the old Vista drivers work better, other times the newer 15.00 series for Win 7 works better. You can also disable the "recieve side scaling" feature in Device Manager network properties, under the advanced tab, which fixes the network cutting out problem on certain machines. Not all drivers have that feature but the new ones do apparently because it shows up on my network properties. I have no such problems with the internet cutting out though.

Also, the Nvidia teaming feature is not supported in Windows 7 which is what the dual network adaptors are for.

 

[seekermeister]

To fix the cutting out network use a different chipset driver, sometimes the old Vista drivers work better, other times the newer 15.00 series for Win 7 works better.

If I recall, it is the 15.00 series that I have installed. I remember trying to use a 6.xx driver that came with the MB's CD, but I couldn't get it to work.

You can also disable the "recieve side scaling" feature in Device Manager network properties, under the advanced tab, which fixes the network cutting out problem on certain machines. Not all drivers have that feature but the new ones do apparently because it shows up on my network properties. I have no such problems with the internet cutting out though.

After checking in the DM on both controllers, I don't see anything that appears to be receive side scaling listed. Maybe they use a different term.

Also, the Nvidia teaming feature is not supported in Windows 7 which is what the dual network adaptors are for.

Currently, I'm using the Marvel Yukon controller...no particular reason, I just plugged the cable into a slot and took what I got. Is there a reason to prefer one over the other?

I'm getting about as good of a connection as I pay for (3.3Mbps), so I'm not expecting to improve that, only the intermittency and possibly greater performance intra-Lan, since my router is supposed to be capable of up to 300Mbps on the WiFi.

 

[chev65]

I would use which ever one doesn't cut out obviously enough, either one will work but the teaming part of it no longer functions with Windows 7, you could use both at once for teaming with Vista but hardly anyone used it.

But if the problem persists there are 3-4 different Nvidia drivers in the 15.00 series, you should try them all until you get one that works right. The 15.53's work good for me and have the recieve side scaling feature which you can disable if needed.

EVGA | Support | Download Drivers

 

[CommonTater]

A thought occurred to me, my motherboard has dual controllers (Nvidia nForce & Marvel Yukon) the one used depends on which ethernet slot is used. What would happen if I ran a cable to both at the same time...better, worse or no effect? Part of the reason for my question is that on random occassions, the LAN connection to this computer is lost momentarily and can be annoying, depending on when that occurs. I was thinking that a dual connection might provide a failsafe, but then it might also create other problems. I prefer to ask a question now, than to experiment on my own.

IF your router will support it you can run two cables from the PC to the router then "bridge" the connections... But with 10/100 nics and a 10/100 router I seriously doubt you'd see much improvement in speed.

In electronics there is a simple rule... Never hook two outputs together... which is what you would be doing if you made a Y connector for those two connections. You just might find your self with neither of them working.

 

[seekermeister]

chev65,

I'm not sure how compatible that EVGA versions of nForce drivers are with my Asus. As far as I could tell, the versions that they have aren't for nForce4 anyway, but I can do some Googling around. As for teaming, I not sure how much I might use something like that, because while most of the time I shall be running W7 on both rigs, occassionally I will be using other OSs. Since my W7 drive died yesterday, I will only be running XP on the secondary rig, until my RMA arrives.

 

[seekermeister]

A thought occurred to me, my motherboard has dual controllers (Nvidia nForce & Marvel Yukon) the one used depends on which ethernet slot is used. What would happen if I ran a cable to both at the same time...better, worse or no effect? Part of the reason for my question is that on random occassions, the LAN connection to this computer is lost momentarily and can be annoying, depending on when that occurs. I was thinking that a dual connection might provide a failsafe, but then it might also create other problems. I prefer to ask a question now, than to experiment on my own.

IF your router will support it you can run two cables from the PC to the router then "bridge" the connections... But with 10/100 nics and a 10/100 router I seriously doubt you'd see much improvement in speed.

I know that the nForce controller is 10/100/1000, and I think the same is true for the router, but I will need to check.

In electronics there is a simple rule... Never hook two outputs together... which is what you would be doing if you made a Y connector for those two connections. You just might find your self with neither of them working.

There would be no Y connector involved, at least not in the fashion described. My router has multiple LAN ports and the computer has two. I was thinking of connecting with separate cable to separate slots on both the router and PC. From what I have read elsewhere, I get the impression that only one of the circuits would actually work at one time, while the other remained at idle. I don't know if it would react quickly enough to make a difference, but I was thinking that it would automatically switch to the inactive circuit, when the other stuttered.

 

[Pusspa]

i think the problem is routing and gateway conflicts for the active internet connection.

 

[seekermeister]

I don't know, but since my last post, I went ahead and ran another cable, and I don't see any difference in performance one way or the other. As expected, when the internet connection busy, the activity light on the back I/P blinks for the Marvel Yukon, but remains steadily lit on the nForce, indicated that it is connected but idle. The question remains as to whether this will solve the intermittency. I will have to observe it for some time.

 

[WindowsStar]

I don't know, but since my last post, I went ahead and ran another cable, and I don't see any difference in performance one way or the other. As expected, when the internet connection busy, the activity light on the back I/P blinks for the Marvel Yukon, but remains steadily lit on the nForce, indicated that it is connected but idle. The question remains as to whether this will solve the intermittency. I will have to observe it for some time.

Nice a topic I have a ton of experience with.

(NIC = Network Interface Card a.k.a Network Card)

Ok here is how it works.

1) You can team the network cards so that one is output and the other is input.
2) You can team the network cards so that they both share the load in both directions as in creating a team that is NIC #1 is 1GB and NIC #2 is 1GB equaling 2GB total. Typically this is done by creating a virtual card with the MAC address of one of the NICs or by making up a MAC address.
3) You can team the network cards so that they provide failover one card is running and the other is waiting. They share a virtual MAC address so if one fails there is NO data lost because when the switch over happens the other NIC has the same MAC and IP.
4) You can team the network cards so that work with load dynamics where you can say this is a application server so I want 60% output and only 40% input, but if the requests become extreme so that the 60% is not good enough it will automatically adjust to 70%/30% or maybe 80%/20% however you have to be careful to not go overboard and make it something like 90%/10% where the 10% request are not enough to fill a 90% output.
5) OR; you can do no teaming and have both NICs plugged into the same switch. With DHCP or static addresses it does not matter. This will give you some fail over however it is not perfect.

First off there are other teaming methods but I want to keep it a bit brief. Option #5 works like this. Say you have DHCP turned on and you are on the same switch.

NIC #1 gets an IP address of:

172.16.0.1
255.255.0.0
172.16.254.1

NIC #2 gets and IP address of:

172.16.0.7
255.255.0.0
172.16.254.1

What can and will happen is that your computer will make a request for data on the internet on NIC #1 via the 172.16.0.1 and the data will come back on the 172.16.0.7 card. Why? Because they both have the same Gateway. This is ok because your machine will get the data and use it regardless where it came from. However say your computer requests data on NIC #2 and NIC #2 stops working or goes intermittent and the data comes back to NIC #2, NIC #1 has no idea what happened and cannot fix it so you still get an intermittent issue. But since TCP/IP is designed to reroute data for just such an issue the request will get re-submitted and you may not notice it because NIC #1 can take over while NIC #2 is down. All you might notice is a very slight lag.

So in your case having 2 NICs plugged in will not hurt a thing and in some cases may make your connection more reliable. You will not get a performance gain because the cards are not teamed as options #1 thru #4 would help in some manner.

I hope that helps -WS

 

[seekermeister]

It is obvious that you known more than the usual poster on this subject, and I think that you answered my original question, plus many more. What is lacking so that I can fully absorb it is a reference to how to team the "cards" (quotes because I don't have cards, just onboard controllers). Is there a tutorial or guide that would go into all of these options in depth?

 

[WindowsStar]

It is obvious that you known more than the usual poster on this subject, and I think that you answered my original question, plus many more. What is lacking so that I can fully absorb it is a reference to how to team the "cards" (quotes because I don't have cards, just onboard controllers). Is there a tutorial or guide that would go into all of these options in depth?

Teaming for Windows 7 requires software. If your NIC vendor supports Teaming they will provide software to do that. Check your vendors web site for Teaming Software. What can be difficult is that many vendors will only allow teaming like NICs or only their products.

If you want to do a test you can download HP's teaming software and give it a try. It works will all HP NIC's and Broadcom (because HP NICs are Broadcom). I would create a good restore point or do a backup of your machine first. This is for Windows Server 2008 R2 which is the same base code as Windows 7. Typically if it runs on Windows 7 it runs on Windows Server 2008 R2 or vice versa.

Let me know if it works. -WS

HP ProLiant DL380 G6 Server series- HP Network Configuration Utility for Windows Server 2008 R2 - HP Business Support Center

Edit: Forgot to answer part of your question. I don't have a link to a web site or a how to site on Teaming on hand. If I get a chance I will see what I can find.

 

[seekermeister]

I seriously doubt that your link would work on my rig, because the two controller are not alike (nForce 10/100/1000 & Marvel Yukon 88E8053 PCIe Gigabit). Maybe that is why Asus choose them...to prevent teaming.

 

[WindowsStar]

I seriously doubt that your link would work on my rig, because the two controller are not alike (nForce 10/100/1000 & Marvel Yukon 88E8053 PCIe Gigabit). Maybe that is why Asus choose them...to prevent teaming.

True: However the software is somewhat generic and extremely easy to configure.

 

[taylorig]

On the original problem of your Nvidia network adaptor DC'ing you randomly. I read a long time ago to disable "Flow Control" in the adaptor configuration.

Also if you have the Nvidia Network Manager installed. Uninstall it as it is usless and as been found to cause more problems.

By the way i'm running an Asus Nforce board and i've never actually had any of these problems but i am always up to date with Bios and driver's. I am currently using the Nforce 15.51_win7_64bit drivers.

Hope you get it finally sorted

 

[seekermeister]

I don't know that it has a thing to do with it, but since enabling the nForce controller and connecting the cable, Browsing with Opera has sped up considerably. When I first got a cable connection, my browser would often hit ~75KB/s, but at some point, that dropped down to ~15-20KB/s. Now, not only am I reaching the original speeds, it is going over 100KB/s, with one spike to amost 300KB/s. Downloading files hasn't slowed or sped up either way (400KB/s).

I was only using the Marvel Yukon controller, but now when going to Network Connections in XP MCE, the LAN Connection shows that it is using the nForce controller. I've been trying to recheck the controller that the primary is using, but can't seem to find it.

Like I said, this performance change may just be a coincidental fluke, but it has held up for over 24 hours.