Problem with eSATA powered USB

[B420]

Hello. i have AsRock M3A770DE motherboard
it has 6 USB ports at back, 2 of them being eSATA powered.
i bought 3tb external hdd for fraps recordings, it is USB3.0, but this motherboard has no USB3.0 so i thought i will plug it into eSATA powered USB, but it's not showing up!

> YES HDD works fine using any other USB2.0 port
> YES eSATA USB ports work fine when i plug mouse, keyboard ..etc into it
> I have checked BIOS that its not in RAID mode and it isn't
> i checked asrock site for possible drivers, found nothing. well i found xFast USB which speeds up USB2.0 ports a little, but still not enought, it gets my fraps recording down to like 20-25fps and its not playable, while recording to internal hdd i get easy 30fps.

i can't think of anything else. can anyone help please?
please do not suggest me to take apart that 3tb and use as internal or to record on internal, i bought external for a reason, it has to remain external and i have NO room on any internal HDDs to record hundreds of GBs of videos.

 

[Layback Bear]

If I understand your question, you want your USB 2.0 to be faster like a USB 3.0.
Thats not going to happen. If your motherboard doesn't have any 3.0 USB ports you don't get USB 3.0 speed.

 

[DocBrown]

I think you can buy PCI add in cards that have USB 3.0 ports on them.

 

[B420]

no ...

3TB HardDrive is USB3.0 but my motherboard does not have USB3.0, i have eSATA powered USB ports, which are even faster than USB3.0.

what i want to do, is plug my USB3.0 device into eSATA powered USB port, but it doesn't work.
i tried inserting USB stick into one of those eSATA powered USB ports and it works (4gb stick), but hdd doesn't work...
im sure it is issue with windows, since my 3TB hdd works just fine and so does the eSATA USB port.


EDIT:
as about PCI card, i would like one, but can't find, they are all PCI-E, but both of my PCI-E slots are taken by graphic cards.

EDIT:
i have googled a lot, i see LOT of people having issues with eSATA HDDs under win7, however mine is not just eSATA , it is eSATA/USB port.
in motherboard's manual it is described as "Powered eSATA/USB"

UPDATE:
I have just checked BIOS again, i have "SATA connection type" set to IDE
options are:
IDE
RAID
AHCI

so i tried AHCI, but it won't boot at all, i get instant BSOD saying that there might be error with harddrive, no error code at all. just generally saying that remove any newly installed harddrives.
so obviously AHCI doesn't work. im quite sure RAID won't help me, because as far as i know it is for merging HDDs or something, never used it tho.

its so frustrating ive been messing with this for hours and can't find any solution to this at all.

 

[B420]

SOLVED: (thus the new post)

this was so frustrating but yay on me, i did it!

i blame everything on win7 ... and its all true.
so what i did?
AHCI mode was correct after all, but win7 didnt like it
i had to regedit and disable AHCI thing

HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE/SYSTEM/CurrentControlset/Services/msahci
set "start" to 0

reboot into BIOS
enable AHCI
windows now loads
installs the AHCI drivers
reboot

drive didn't show up .. i was about to scream out loud, but i did see it detecting it by name, so i thought i give it last try and swapped my mouse and drive (both using eSATA USB) and voilaaa! it works.

 

[Layback Bear]

I'm glad you got is figured out. It wasn't Windows if I understand you correctly. Your bios had to be set to AHCI and wasn't. You then set your bios to AHCI. Is that correct. The reason I ask is because people all over the world read our post and the exact fix could help many.

 

[B420]

setting BIOS from IDE to AHCI was only one part of problem, as i said once i did that, i instantly got BSOD! without any error code, just general bla bla that remove any newly installed hard drives.

this is where i had to regedit and disable that AHCI thing so it won't start with windows.
I didn't find anything in google at first, because my problem was not just eSATA, mine is actual USB port that is eSATA powered, but as far as win7 goes, win7 still sees it as eSATA/SATA.


I got another problem/question, i don't see any incredible speed boost at all, any ideas?
it used to be like 35mb/s, now it is barely like 40-44mb/s
im sure HDD supports more than that, i mean cmon .. that's SLOW.
i think now problem is that windows doesn't know it is USB3 device and treats it as USB2 ... any way to change this?

 

[essenbe]

Every thing on your computer uses drivers to operate. You installed in IDE mode. There were no AHCI drivers installed as you were not using it. When you did the reg edit, you told windows to load AHCI drivers, so now it will run in AHCI mode. It was not Windows fault. Windows didn't install raid drivers either. If you want to use a different mode, you have to load the drivers for it.

Powered esata is a esata port and a USB 2.0 port combined. When you hook up your drive it will run off of the esata or the USB 2.0 bus. If you hook up a USB 3.0 cable to it, it is the same as if you plug a USB cable into a USB 2.0 port. All you're going to get is USB 2.0 speed. If you want to really increase your speed, get a powered esata drive dock or enclosure. The reason the port is powered is because it gets it's power from the USB port. In truth, it was never really intended to be a USB port, but that was the way to make it powered.The USB port will provide enough power to run a 2.5" hard drive, but rarely a 3.5" drive. esata is faster than USB 3.0 in practice. It does not have the overhead of USB.

The answer was here http://www.sevenforums.com/tutorials/61869-ahci-enable-windows-7-vista.html

 

[B420]

right .. so all this was for nothing?
well i did notice small increase in speed, maybe like 10-20%, but still awfully slow.

anyway, how about getting eSATA to USB3.0 cable/adapter? would that fix my slow speed problem?
like this one:
StarTech StarTech 3 ft SuperSpeed USB 3.0 to eSATA: Amazon.co.uk: Electronics

i don't understand, why can't USB3.0 just work in eSATA ...

I would rip it out of the case and use as internal for time being, but case is stupid and there are no screws or anything to open it, im quite sure i will damage the case when opening.
+ other problem is that i only got 1 SATA left and im planning on using it for SSD

 

[essenbe]

There are a lot of limiting factors to the speed of data. But in general, if you hook up with a USB cable, you are going to get USB speeds. You need to get an easta cable to run on an esata port. You can use it for an internal drive or an external drive. Get an esata enclosure and put your hard drive in it and you will get esata speeds. You can also get esata to sata cables, hook it to the rear esata port in the rear and the sata connection on your internal hard drive. You will always be limited to the type cable you use and the enclosure as well as the speed of the hard drive. There are other factors, but those are the main ones. You need a USB 3.0 port and a USB 3.0 cable to get USB 3.0 Speeds. You need an eSATA port and an eSATA enclosure and cable for esata speeds. This is what I use for esata.
Newegg.com - Thermaltake BlacX ST0005U External Hard Drive SATA Enclosure Docking Station 2.5” & 3.5” USB 2.0 & eSATA
You will notice, it comes with a USB 2.0 plug and an eSATA plug, meaning you can use either one but not at the same time. You can also switch hard drives in less than 1 minute. Turn it off, pull the old one out stick the new one in, turn it back on.
If you want to use that port for an internal drive, you can use this for your sata data cable hooked to your rear port.
Newegg.com - BYTECC Model SATA-136EO 36" Serial ATA to e-SATA Cable

 

[essenbe]

This is an oversimplification. But, it's like USB and eSATA speak different languages. sata can talk to sata, but USB needs an interpreter to speak to sata. Even if you get a USB to esata converter cable, the cable is still speaking USB and has to be interpreted to sata, thus slowing down the process. That is a very oversimplified explanation. I know I am going to be jumped on by others here, but is probably the best way I know to explain why you can't get USB 3.0 speeds from an esata port. I hope that helps you understand it a little better.

 

[DocBrown]

What is the make & model of this 3tb ext HD ?

 

[essenbe]

All computers run different. This is the speeds you will typically see with each type of connection. Sometimes faster sometimes slower, but typical. Doc showed up so I had to post a snip.

 

[DocBrown]

Thanks Steve, How about snips of the speeds of two types of internal SATA connections ?


If I really wanted to see a HD with the fastest speed that he is looking for, I would just connect the 3tb HD with extra long Data & power cables out the back or the side of the computer. See if that speed met with my expectations. If so then I would work on a cosmetically acceptable installation / enclousure.



Edit: That is providing you have some internal unsed SATA ports available to connect long cables to for testing.

 

[B420]

my fault, should have done research on hardware. no offence essenbe but looks like you haven't done research on hardware either.

simplest explanation WHY this would never work:
eSATA/USB hybrid port or so called Power eSATA is 2 in 1, but it does not mean they use same cables/connections.
i examined HD image of eSATA/USB hybrid port and i noticed that in one side, it has connectors for eSATA and on other side USB2.
so when i plugged my USB3 device in there, it was simply connected to normal USB2 connectors, not to eSATA, so it is not matter of software and "language" but simple hardware problem.

USB3 cable and eSATA port are not even connected. after i examined that picture i thought .. wtf am i stupid that i never even looked how eSATA looks like?

anyway, adapter would work.
i would just need Mini USB3 male to eSATA .. and i would be set, but it doesn't seem to exist in whole world.
im sure there is a reason for this, but i don't realize it. its possible to make adapter for anything.


i think im going to get PCI USB2 high-speed adapter instead, they say it is 480mbps which is 60mb/s. right now im only getting 40mb/s so hopefully it will fix the issue. some of my internal HDDs are only around 60mb/s, so it should be more than enought for fraps recordings @ 30fps


EDIT:
unfortunetly my biggest problem is lack of ports. only 1 internal SATA and that's reserved for SSD.
nothing else is free, both PCI-E are taken and so is IDE. only ones left are PCI

 

[essenbe]

If he has internal ports, the cable I linked to would do that, or they would connect from the back port to an internal mounted drive, With that cable and a power source he could do it either way. But, aren't most 3TB drives 5400 RPM's? If they are he will never get top speed. But for a backup or a storage drive, it would be fine, I imagine. I was expecting a hard time about my anology.

 

[Layback Bear]

essenbe I like your anology. Seems to me when one gets done buying all the adapters and cables and gadgets you could just install another motherboard to suit ones needs.
To me its simple. If you computer has max speed o xxx you are not going to get speeds of xxxxxxx out of it.

 

[essenbe]

Well, for the sake of argument, there is no mechanical hard drive capable of sata II speeds of 3Gb/s But USB 3.0 is capable of 5 Gb/s. Those are the theoretical maximums of both. However, in real life, esata will transfer data approx. twice as fast as USB 3.0. There has to be a lot of overhead on USB that is not there on sata. Technically, there are 4 lanes on USB 2.0 and 9 lanes on USB 3.0. This allows for data to be transfered both ways at the same time on 3.0.

I believe I said before that you were using the USB 2.0 connection when you plugged in your USB 3.0 cable, not the esata. You may find this of interest. Regardless, esata is about twice as fast as USB 3.0 in practice, but not theoretically.
USB 3.0: What You Need To Know - TechSpot

You have to distinguish between theoretical speed and actual speed, they are quite different. If you will look in device manager under USB controllers, you will probably find one or two with the word enhanced in it. If you do, then you already have the high speed USB 2.0. As far as I am aware, there is only USB 1.1, USB 2.0 (also known as high speed USB), and USB 3.0 (also known as super speed).

 

[B420]

well i managed to get 40mb/s out of it using AsRock's XFast USB tool, it puts USB2 into Turbo mode that helps a LOT, but still only 40mb/s. it used to be slower, like 30 or below i think.
and yes it should be 5400rpm.
this one:
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Seagate-STB...ZJ1M/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1358664711&sr=8-2

anyway i bought this for fraps recordings, but it lags my games so bad, i haven't tested it again, but i think its a lot better now. it got games stuck around 20fps or even 15. i did one quick test using turbo mode and i got about 29fps, which is quite playable during recording.
i hope that with standalone PCI USB card i get it working at 60mb/s and it will solve the speed issues.

thanks for explanations essenbe


now this goes bit offtopic, but is there adapter/device to connect HDD into RAM slot? i know it doesn't make much sense, but since RAM slot is so much faster than HDD and even SSD, i find it useful, i could connect like 10 external HDDs into one RAM slot and get max speed out of each HDD.
..just saying, they should make adapter that connects many HDDs/SSDs into RAM slot. i have 8gb RAM and it is more than enought (never used up over 6, running 2 games, photoshop, camtasia, browsers, skype..etc), so 2 slots just sit there .. empty.

 

[essenbe]

Not that I have ever heard of. You may consider a ram disk. I've never used one but I hear they are pretty fast and used as a cache. I don't know if that would work, but it would have to be able to transfer data to a hard drive as I believe they empty as soon as you reboot. Again, I have not looked into them or ever used one, but maybe something like that could be used to hold the data until it could be written to disk. Even then you are still limited to the write speed of the disk.