Windows 10 versus Windows 7: Whose numbers do you trust?

[ICIT2LOL]

I don't believe their will ever be a final version of W-10.
In my opinion W-10 users will for ever be getting Updates and Upgrades and therefor they will be resetting things forever.

Jack

I think Jack has hit the nail on the head and as for everything else hardware or software nothing is future proof. I have been in hospital for the last seven weeks so have not had the chance to get on my 10 machines to see what is going on with it but still I still prefer it to 8 or 8.1 in whatever guise it came in. Personally am still a 7 person

 

[ThrashZone]

Hi,
Yep well I finally did put 10 on a crucial 120gb ssd for long term storage
It was a waste having 10 on a 500gb
I might go ahead this next weekend and try zorin on it instead see what steam/ Origin/ Uplay works like

 

[Jody Thornton]

I don't believe their will ever be a final version of W-10.
In my opinion W-10 users will for ever be getting Updates and Upgrades and therefor they will be resetting things forever.

Jack

Precisely. Microsoft has stated that more or less, Windows 10 will follow the same marketing patterning as Mac OSX. The original OS X from March 2000 is a vastly different OS than that of today (which cat is it named after this month?). But it just morphs and changes as the months and yeard go by. In fact, isn't support soon ending for the original 10240 build of Windows 10?

 

[Western Star]

I am still using "Windows 7 Home Perium" as it is a rock solid OS and much like the interface between the operator (me).

To me "windows 8" was a taster for the touch screen market the was being developed.

As for "windows 10" that is designed for touch screen PC and taplets.

Terry.

 

[lehnerus2000]

I'm running the original Windows 8 with Classic Shell. Metro-related differences aside, why do you feel the "explorer" based portion of Windows 8 is so inferior to Windows 8.1? And what is it that you feel makes 10 better? 8x seems more like Windows 7 if you ask me (just a flatter faster version)

Unless you disable the Metro rubbish, it interferes with the explorer stuff (invisible hotspots, annoying fly-outs that only appear when you aren't trying to access them).

I've only encountered corporate installs of the W8 Series (since I tried W8.1 Enterprise preview).
They don't include GUI mods, but they do include MS' stupid default settings (e.g. hidden extensions, "always combined" taskbar icons, etc.).

The W8 Series with Classic Shell may be superior to W10 without Classic Shell.

I don't believe their will ever be a final version of W-10.
In my opinion W-10 users will for ever be getting Updates and Upgrades and therefor they will be resetting things forever.

Agreed.

However MS is busy crippling/deleting options from W10, so in a few years there wont be anything to adjust.

 

[Jody Thornton]

Agreed.

However MS is busy crippling/deleting options from W10, so in a few years there wont be anything to adjust.

I wonder if Microsoft is slowly attempting to completely eradicate the "explorer" portion of Windows. PC Settings is replacing most of the Control Panel options. I'll bet one day, conventional "explorer" (or desktop) apps will run in a special mode, while we use Metro applications for everything else.

 

[Ascaris]

You must have luckily avoided W8.

In my opinion:

• W8.1 was a big improvement over W8
• W10 is a big improvement over W8.1
• W7 is still better then W10

I thought Windows 8 was probably the worst too (though I admit I've never used it; I've read all the reviews, and if anything, I'm more of a Classic Windows purist than any of the reviewers, so I'd probably hate it more than they did), but ironically, now I am keeping my eyes open in case I run across cheap Win 8.1 Pro so that I can have it on hand in 2020 when Win 7 is set to stop getting security updates. Maaaaybe Windows 10 will be decent by then, but after witnessing how MS has responded to the complaints about 10 so far, I am not betting on that at all.

Win 8.1 will buy three more years of security support at the time that 7 is set to ride off into the sunset (unless the market share is so great that MS feels compelled to extend the extended support as they did on XP). I wouldn't even like Windows 7 as much as I do if I wasn't using Classic Shell and 7+ Taskbar Tweaker, so it's a given that I'd be using them in 8/8.1 or 10, along with Old New Explorer and whatever other things I discover by then to take the "phone" out of the UI.

Since one of the changes for 8.1 allows booting directly to the desktop, I can see a path forward where I disable all of the idiotic UI bells and whistles, ending up with something that looks somewhat like 7 and somewhat like 10 dressed up to look like 7-- but without the perma-beta level of stability from the rolling release schedule (and the lack of beta testers at MS), the forced updates, Cortana, or a whole bunch of other things that make 10 less than appealing.

Windows 7 has all the features I need, so the only updates I'm really interested in are precisely the ones MS has pledged to provide during extended support ("spying" isn't one of the things they promised, but it seems we're getting it anyway). I don't want most or any of the new features MS seems to think we're all dying to have. My reaction to most of the new stuff Microsoft is hanging on Win 10 ranges from "No way do I want that nonsense on my PC" to "meh, I could take it or leave it." Even in the latter case, I'd much prefer not to have a feature that's "meh," as every change has the possibility of introducing new bugs and instability. Why risk that for a feature I'm ambivalent about (let alone one that diminishes the appeal of the product in and of itself).

As such, not getting any new features is one of the features of 7 (and 8.1 if I ever do make the move) that I value the most. No Cortana, no spying (if I keep doing the security only updates as I have been in 7), updates on my schedule, no advertising, no unwanted downloads of Candy Crush, no Cortana, no Edge, no nag to USE Edge if I try to use something else, no unwanted uninstallations of my programs, no changing my privacy settings back to max phone home whenever it wants, no removing the drivers I've carefully selected if it finds something it likes better on Windows Update...

The Win 10 UI is better than 8 out of the box, but it's still pretty poor.

 

[ICIT2LOL]

Hmm Acaris mate from my own experience I would not even think about installing 8.1 it was in my mind a total nonsense and made the machine I used it on look like my tablets and phone and while I am quite happy to have that UI with those on a laptop or desktop no way.

I am unfortunately in hospital right now and so cannot send you a picture of my 10 UI setups I have on one laptop and one desktop. I have just got rid of all the nonsense that the install sets up and made the Start menu look as much like 7 as I can by just typing in the search box what I want in the Start menu and attaching it to the Start menu. For example Computer becomes This PC, Control Panel stays the same, the pics and docs libraries stay the same etc etc the only one I have not worked out yet is a quick click for the regedit.

As for the other stuff you mention yes I got rid of Cortana and all those super user features like the speech instruction stuff etc etc. I set up Chrome no problems and well the taskbar you would not know it wasn't 7.

The main worry for us is that they (Microsoft) will gradually cut down on the flexibility for want of a better term of navigating the OS in 10.

 

[Jody Thornton]

I guess I want to defend Windows 8 here because it garners a lot of hatred (hey I initially hated it too), without even trying it. It could be a real option for those who cannot use Windows 7 anymore, for whatever reason.

So if you install Windows 8 alongside Classic Shell, it conceals all of those Metro nuisances like Charms, the Start Screen and what not. I further removed all of the metro app and package folders - so it's GONE on my system. The only time I ever see anything that's remotely metro-esque is when i see the logon screen, or when I insert a device and I'm asked what I want to do with it (a little blue Metro window comes up - but just chalk that up to a "modern" looking dialog box)

Otherwise, it's a flat faster Windows 7. And I even have some more Aero-like themes.

But the big thing for Windows 8 is - no telemetry updates, so even compared to Windows 8.1, I'm better off in that respect. There are also a couple x64 based CPUs that won't run Windows 8.1, but will run Windows 8. And for those saying "Wait Jody! Windows 8 has been out of support for a year!". Well just go to the Microsoft Catalogue (as I will be later today), and download the month's update for Server 2012 (original), and patch your system. A few of us have been doing just that for a year with great success.

And yes, Classic shell can get you to the desktop straight away.

Here's my Windows 8 desktop.

 

[Ascaris]

ICIT2LOL, I am definitely with you on not wanting the phone UI on my desktop. There are a lot of compromises that are made, UI wise, to make it work on a tiny touchscreen, and while they may be necessary evils on that clumsy platform, they're wholly unnecessary on a regular desktop or laptop PC without a touchscreen.

One of the problems I have with Windows 10 is that there seems to be a random sprinkling of UWP UI bits and pieces within the OS, and there is very little rhyme or reason to it. For example, if you right click the desktop background and select Personalize, you get a UWP dialog. It resembles the Win32 one I see in 7, but it's more sparse, with wasted screen space that could be used to provide more clickable options (as my Win 7 version has).

So, you find the theme button within that UWP dialog and... you're presented with a Win32 theme menu. It's just a random smattering of both, with the Win32 bits adopting the Windows theme I select and the UWP ones stubbornly refusing.

Now, about 8 again: I've had a lot of people tell me that you can beat back the Metro annoyances of 8/8.1 and rework it into a pretty good UI. What constitutes "good" is a matter of opinion, so I won't know if I like it until I try it. It's just good to have an option for 2020 in the event that Win 10 is still something I do not want.

Jody, you wrote that your Win 8 setup is like a flatter, quicker Win 7. It doesn't have to be flat if you don't want it to, though! It doesn't have the breadth of transparency effects that 7 has, but I am not using that anyway. I am using a Win 7 theme that is very Win Classic looking, with skeuomorphic buttons and window/dialog/menus. It's not really my creation; it's based on Saarineames' (hope I spelled it right) Aero Classic theme, but heavily reworked by me to meet my needs (and since I don't have his permission, I don't distribute it to anyone). Porting it to Win 8 is no problem at all, so my Win 8 setup would look very familiar to me. I even had the theme running on Win 10 until Threshold 2 broke that compatibility.

That issue is kind of a microcosm of one of the big problems with 10. The new constant-change, rolling update cycle means that what works now can easily be broken tomorrow (and I don't mean by the inadvertent introduction of bugs, though that is a big problem too). Given the kinds of features MS has been rolling out in 10, I am glad that 7 is in extended support rather than mainstream support. It's a mature code base that changes very little compared to that of 10, and that means greater stability. By the time I get around to installing 8, if it does come to that, it will have been in extended support for two years as well. Realistically, though, 8 has been in de facto extended support since Win 10's release, even if it is technically supposed to be in mainstream support until 2018. Sorry, all you folks who expected to get all five years of mainstream support MS promised you in Win 8's EULA!

 

[Jody Thornton]

Jody, you wrote that your Win 8 setup is like a flatter, quicker Win 7. It doesn't have to be flat if you don't want it to, though! It doesn't have the breadth of transparency effects that 7 has, but I am not using that anyway.

You'll notice in the next sentence I wrote that "I use Aero-like themes", so yes I am quite aware. And for what it's worth I also like some flat themes too.

 

[UXGaurav]

+1 to everyone who says Windows 8.1 with Classic Shell is better than Windows 10. My opinion is the same. It adds some of the nice features that Windows 7 lacks but isn't as annoying as Windows 10. Try it. With Classic Shell, it's like a current up-to-date OS but with the UI and reliability of Windows 7.

 

[tetraps]

Another +1 on 8.1 with CS. I didn't use 8/8.1 until last year and remember that 8 caused many headaches at release. It seems most of those issues were resolved in 8.1, and CS fills in the gaps in the UI. As someone who avoided 10 for many reasons, I'm okay with 8.1+CS.

 

[Jody Thornton]

Another +1 on 8.1 with CS. I didn't use 8/8.1 until last year and remember that 8 caused many headaches at release. It seems most of those issues were resolved in 8.1, and CS fills in the gaps in the UI. As someone who avoided 10 for many reasons, I'm okay with 8.1+CS.

I guess that's what I want to know or have someone reveal. What headaches did you have with the original Windows 8? Mine runs with aplomb!

 

[ICIT2LOL]

Yes well it is frustrating for me right now because as I think I mentioned I am banged up in hospital - broken leg and cannot jump on my 10 machines to show how I have mine set up. I haven't used those machines since the day after Boxing day so the changes being mentioned I again have not yet had the chance to see. Suffice to say the last time I was on the 10 machines it was just like using 7 only a tad faster.

As for 7 being slow well I use the Optimise tutorial on all machines I have and most that I fix for friends or family. Even some of the features in 7 like for example the transparency effect I find a total waste of computing power so have it switched off. In fact the tutorial by Brink in my mind is a must for any 7 user and it does make all the difference in bringing any 7 machine up to speed for want of a better term.

Now of course I do have SSD's in all the machines and they all have i5 or better CPU's and I will admit that any machine with a spinner and/or low RAM that I use the tutorial on is obviously not going to be as fast or efficient as my machines but in my mind 7 is far preferable to 8.1 because as I again said it did my head in when I used it just the once.

But if anyone likes 8 well that is their choice and I am not one for trying to change anyone's mind as to what they use, I am just saying it is really not my cup of tea. AS my late Mum used to say "It wouldn't do for us all to to be the same" and she was so right just imagine a world full of me LOL!!

 

[Metastasis666]

I think the only problem when upgrading the machine to a new operating system is the performance issues as this new operating system is not programmed to work on lower or older specifications.

 

[ThrashZone]

Hi,
Depends on how old really
10 worked okay on a 6-7 year old acer system besides it's usual bugs and instability.

Most are not compatible with 10's fast start features for sure.

 

[margrave]

I don't fuss over the OS. I've never upgraded the OS on any computer.
When I buy a new box, I get a new OS.

As for 7 vs. 10 ... they're not much different to me.
I had to fix Win 7 with Classic Shell. And I had to fix Win 10 with Classic Shell.
Now they look just about the same.

I don't use the OS. I use apps. If the OS works well, it's largely invisible.
Win 7 worked fine. Win 10 does too.