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Windows 7: Windows Mail

29 May 2015   #1650

Windows 7 Professional

Dear endeavor!
My apologies for keep silence for a long time – actually it's not a silence at all: I just wrote everything yesterday, but Your session timer threw me out of site silently, so I press submit button and voila – everything gone and reauth page appeared. You guys should to make something for some kind of autosave current message input, it’s not a twitter, it’s a forum in the end.
So, I’ll try to answer for a couple of Your question
1.Your point of view to registry is, let’s say, excessive simple J. Yes, You’re right, global settings are stored in HKLM section and local settings are stored in HKCU. But these things are not equivalent, I mean HKCU is NOT a mirror of HKLM for current user, so Your sentence about “no HKCU should be supplied in our reg file, nor should it be” is completely wrong. I did a pair of investigations J, as You can see for a bunch of “Windows Registry Editor…” titles, and found a better integration to the system when HKCU is included.
2.Yes, You’re right, so many of those titles not needed, but it wasn’t a public project, but a private, so beauty of file was a last thing I thought about.
3.About Calendar. Yes, that topic is quite old and You can imagine, I’m not a big lover of calendar programs too, but You can dig deeper and Googling will help You. Net is full of same WRONG suggestions of WRONG procedure of initializing Calendar in Win7/Win8. The result is non-working notifications. So, who needs calendar app which tells You nothing? Again, I’m too lazy to show right way in “any way” mode. If somebody will show interest, I’ll did it, if not – OK, I’ll have a lot less problems J
4.About reasons why Mail stops working on a regular basis. You point of view suffers of excessive simplicity too. Oh, yeah, You’re right, when update changes msoe.dll for the new one, it stops functioning. In theory J. M$ stopped support of WinMail ages ago, remember? So who cares about new versions of msoe.dll? The REAL reason for problem is start of system self-check when it find “wrong” dll and substitute is “right” dll out of cache. So only thing You need for stopping that annoying manner is throwing link to desired dll out of cache. Actually somebody (I think, it was guy Poppa Bear from this forum) did it for Windows 7 x86, but nobody before me did it for x64, that’s why Win 7 x86 works and x64 has magic problems out of the blue. Window 8.1 appeared to be more complex: at first, they need to do all things from above for every file in Windows Mail folder, and at second, that files are localized. So, I did everything for Russian OS, but English OS is different and my humanism isn’t so big for downloading and installing two Os’s - x86 and x64 (again, there are DIFFERENT tweaks for them), that’s why I asked for beta-testing. Again: guys, if You don’t needed – it’s OK, I’ll have a lot less problems in my life J.

Please, don’t think of me as a total politically incorrect person, but I haven’t any interest of wide discussion of what I did, why I did and why I’m not so smart as I imagine (joke of course). Let me repeat: I started tweaks for both win7 & win8.1 on Christmas holidays and everything works flawlessly until today with all those updates for half of year. What more You’re need please?

And about Take ownership/Remove ownership. You misunderstood me: I don’t think it’s wrong or bad utility, I think You use it (or You teach other peeps to be more precise) in wrong and bad way. Take ownership catch system rights for the object, but Remove ownership doesn’t revert it, it’s just remove it from the context. But system rights are serious part of NTFS system and You shouldn’t change them for every case. For simpliest example let’s look on that Calendar program: wrong rights totally destroy its functioning. I want to be understood clearly: for Windows Mail it’s not problem, so it’s nothing wrong to use it here, but it happend occusionaly. I think it’s not bad idea to show peeps right way, I mean manual take ownership of msoe.dll exclusively -> replace dll -> restore rights for new dll manually. It’s not needed for Mail, but You’ll teach people for right manipulating with system files, when OS “thinks” nothing happened at all.

My System SpecsSystem Spec
29 May 2015   #1651

Vista/Win7/Win8/Win10 (x86/x64)

Dear NoMatterWho!
Yes I agree it would nice if this forum had an auto-save feature like many others forums do, in the mean-time if you have lots of thoughts to write, create it in WinMail as plain text first, then copy/paste to a forum post, just watch out for the spellcheck bug! though.

Anyway I can tell by your replies you are not understanding my meanings, and I apologize if I'm not coming up with the right words to get this across. I know from experience that explaining something in one language with it's nuisances, can be taken as the opposite meaning in another language. I only know how to speak/write English, you have taken the time to be able to speak more than one language and that is great.

I have no questions for you. I still stand behind what I said for the reasons I said them.
~Those personal HKCU settings that I see you added extra in your reg addition are not needed at all. Those are per-user settings that are automatically built/added by each persons first WinMail launch and subsequent options usage, an no other intervention is needed, and afawk there are none that ever get left out being added when a WinMail launch and complete option set builds them - and so because of that you do not need to add them, or should you. You do not need to pre-add what will be automatically added by each users own unique personal settings.
Looking just at some of your HKCR keys you added, are just duplicates of what we already have in there, so what's the point.
What we already have in the WinMailEdit.reg is brilliantly perfect, and the results of many! individuals working on this from day one up until the current day.
If you have some 'specific' registry entries we don't have already, and that are needed, that you want to point out - then by all means please do so and explain them. I have every ability to check and test them out - but I will only do so if it's truly warranted.
I am stating that specifically, WinMail, needs no user added HKCU entries. When WinMail is first time opened on a new install, and then during any subsequent options settings, that is when the completed set of all the HKCU settings keys are written automatically by the program itself. The registry is really driven off HKLM, mostly the per-user keys are built by programs when first launched using HKLM entries as the base or have some built-in self registering, or both. By building only the base HKLM registry entries, user configuration is as it should be, preserved for when each individual has to run the tutorial again, so that it does not and will not interfere/change/overwrite their own options settings already preferred; after all we don't want to give someone else our own settings, or change theirs. That's the beauty of it and that's why we purposefully do not offer any HKCU entries; it was actually Slartybart who finished showing me the light of day about that, and then in my way hands on proved it out doing many numerous virgin test bench installs tracking every single blessed file/registry change along the way. I have proven this out over and over again. I've been using and personally working in the background on this WinMail project all the way back to 2009, even before I registered into this forum.

~ I cannot address the Calendar operation, I do not use it, but I do support anyone who likes it. As far as the taking ownership process on 7, Slartybart does it for the one file needed. On 8 I just do it to the whole folder for ease of use since all the files need to be changed out, so there's no sense doing one file at a time, but since I do not have Calendar in place again I can't speak to that operation. The Windows 8 Tutorial...well it's not really a tutorial at all, but as you can see over there, I just kept editing my original post adding on to it over the years as I went along. It's surly not as pretty as Slartybart's tutorial - he is a good tutorial writer, but it is what it is and I have no plans on making it fancy for the few people it would serve.

~ You mentioned it, but I have never personally taken a lot of extra time to get Windows 7 WinMail to work when it breaks after a newer version msoe.dll given by a new MS update overwrites it - we just put the original one back. That works very well, and we don't try to fix what's not broken. As for Windows 8, and Windows 10, when MS does an update, via reg/file tracking I have seen sometimes they replace numerous files from the programs folder not just the msoe.dll, some of which stop it from working again, but the same thing here, I just overwrite the ones I see necessary back to the working originals to get it working again. I do not try and adapt the newer files to work, I have no reason to - I mean it's not like they are rebuilding them each time to make WinMail better for us.

We have spent so many years on this project, and really, it is rare that anyone posts here in this thread anymore, or over at the Eight forums in that WinMail thread either, because there are less and less people interested to use it anymore - and I don't really blame them, and that's why we don't put any more time into it over and above the thousands of hours we already have!'s just not worth it for the few people that still use it - you understand. I personally however will use WinMail for 7, 8, and 10 probably till the day I die - but that's just me. I have the ability to easily instantly fix it every time a new MS update breaks it - and besides I like WinMail.

I think the only way we could make the installation of WinMail for Windows 7 easier (and/or Windows 8, and Windows 10 ..each with their unique differences) if someone with the true ability to do so, would make an .exe installer covering each OS with each of their unique intricacies. I'm sure if there were more people using WinMail these days someone with abilities would get more interested to create a one click installer for it, but there are not, and there have been fewer and fewer users every year.

In closing I will say, I think it's neat we have this person Rafial over at doing what he does with Outlook Express. I even installed it on a test bench setup and played around with it for a little bit.
I like WinMail Much Better though. I wish he would choose WinMail instead of Outlook Express, there must be a reason, probably because of how newer updates keeps breaking it therefore would need to much maintenance for users to keep it going.

I've done all I can and that I have time for. always, all the best..
My System SpecsSystem Spec
29 May 2015   #1652

Windows 7 Professional

Oh yes, I DID it as a second try to post You (I talk about plain text), but I felt myself, let's say, bumped before, when I lost everything which I tried to explain in not very small time space J
You talk very clearly, believe me, and I don’t see nothing I didn’t understand, so don’t worry about it. So, I need clarify some moment by short historical travel.
I thought absolutely identical with You by the terms of using (or not using to be more precise) HKCU when I started implement WinMail into Win7 (friend of mine asked me for that) and I started from Googling and ended up with this wonderful site and this wonderful topic (it’s not sarcasm, I really think so) and I started from Your helper. I’m very sorry for didn’t log but definitely something went wrong with full integration – maybe default protocol, maybe something else – I can’t remember now), so I needed help, but for some unknown reason You guys refused to register me with e-mail from Russian region (BTW it repeated now again, so I should to blow up dust from almost forgotten old Yahoo account. Seriously, why You don’t like so strong and so long?). Anyway I stayed alone against all my problems, so I started combining different “mail” sections of registry from different sources until I got repeated flawless result on VMs (God bless WinMail: I’m highly in doubts I ever dare to start messing with those beautiful things without those tries). Honestly I’m not sure which one of my adds brought desired effect, but everything works now for me, for my friend, for friends of my friend and so on J. And I don’t interesting now which line exactly helped, because I have constantly repeated satisfactory result and it’s the main thing, isn’t it? It’s quiet foolish to deny Your rightness for Your approvements, but at other hand I see what I see: Your file missing something. Or, let’s say it missed at October of 2014. In other words, it’s perfect, yes. But not brilliantly.
I think, some slight language barrier definitely takes place. I talk about ownership problem. You point to different versions of that tool: folder & file rights catching. I mean absolutely different problem: once You catch rights with that utility, You COULDN’T back that rights because it’s impossible. There aren’t in Universe methods to define which rights from which object You catched. To change security settings forever and ever is bad idea generally and You need to explain it to others. And I showed You an example when wrong security changes makes program non-functional.
I can’t understand quite enough Your sentence about You spend very small time to recover WInMail. You make it with ease, I make it with ease, a couple of guys make it with ease, but try to stand to common people point of view: permanently crashing app – for why in the name of God they need it? Of course, it loses users constantly.
And what I don’t understand at all: I repeat You at third time: x64 reg I provided stops crashing WinMail while system update. I’m sorry, but what’s a matter with You? Start sfc /verifyonly for checking after applying that file is against Your religion or what?
My System SpecsSystem Spec
30 May 2015   #1653

Vista/Win7/Win8/Win10 (x86/x64)

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by NoMatterWho View Post
Anyway I stayed alone against all my problems, so I started combining different “mail” sections of registry from different sources
Yes and i
t looks like it was cobbled together from all those searches, but realize all those searches lead back to this forum in one way or the other...

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by NoMatterWho View Post
until I got repeated flawless result on VMs (God bless WinMail: I’m highly in doubts I ever dare to start messing with those beautiful things without those tries). Honestly I’m not sure which one of my adds brought desired effect, but everything works now for me, for my friend, for friends of my friend and so on J. And I don’t interesting now which line exactly helped, because I have constantly repeated satisfactory result and it’s the main thing, isn’t it?
Yes but you have only been testing it for a few months since this last Christmas you said. You have a long way to go.
Anyway, I am glad you have it working for yourself and your friends, that's very nice, good job well done.
I however do know and do understand about the WinMailEdit.reg and it's entries, and am more than very confident of everything I have told you.
Realize that all of your google searches in the end really draw from this original WinMail thread, and that is where you found the SFC fix you keep clamoring about that stops the occurrence from using sfc /scannow which before replaced the msoe...dll back to the Windows cached version:

(edited the next day - as it turns out this is only for x86 versions, not x64)

...and this entry fixes that. You see, this is 'Already Included' in our WinMailEdit.reg and fixes that problem! and you do not need to supply it! ...I don't think you quite realize everything you are talking about has already been done before!

There is no problem with the WinMailEdit.reg 32 or 64 bit, it does not need HKCU in it, trust me on this - or you don't have to that's fine.
Again all the registry entries you provided from your internet googling travels invariably originate from here in the first place, and I will tell you over and over, we don't provide any HKCU because if you could setup your own test bench fresh install and track all of the registry/file changes made, you would see all those entries get automatically and appropriately added by themselves from the WinMail first launch AND then more during each users personal configuration itself, tested, proven, verified, period.
I only use the final WinMailEdit.reg from this tutorial, I know it well, and the final edit we made to it was back on 5/15/2012 where we previously removed all the unnecessary HKCU in it, it simply was not needed and caused more problems disrupting peoples own personal settings than anything else, besides it was redundant - all proven over and over for all the reasons why I have mentioned already; before that we also added other entries to fix other problems.

There is nothing more for me to say, that has not already been said.

I congratulate you for your work and effort with WinMail, and helping your friends.
I do appreciate your enthusiasm.

The WinMail story and re-working it, has pretty much come to a close, you are a little late to the party.
There will be a time when WinMail will be no more, for most people that is.. :)

..take good care
My System SpecsSystem Spec

30 May 2015   #1654

Windows 7 Professional

Yes, You're right more or less, I think. We should to stop our discussion, because You can't (or it's just pretend, anyway it's don't matter) hear anything don't conforming Your point of view. You cite x86 keys when I talk about x64 keys, which is total nonsense. It's not a talk at all, so I stop it. Sorry for wasting Your time
My System SpecsSystem Spec
31 May 2015   #1655

Vista/Win7/Win8/Win10 (x86/x64)

Dear YouKnowWho,
It's sometimes difficult to understand your written word of English and their meanings the way words are interchanged which can have different meanings, which sometimes could even be taken insultivly, so be careful of that please.

I kept trying to ask you for specific registry keys rather than you just giving me a copy/paste of all these unnecessary keys, and admittedly after looking at all of them I didn't want to take the time to sift through so many irrelevant registry keys researching dead ends, and because you said you weren't sure which one it was or what it did to help you - that didn't help me either. However because of your last post, just for me to be sure I wasn't missing something, I gave another look at your x64, and in fact there was one important registry key out of the many that caught my attention, and so I have to thank you for being persistent because you've brought up an important issue, and so in the end I have to Thank You for that persistence.

But first of all for WinMail, there is only one registry file needed for both x86 and x64, all the entries we give cover both versions at once, but for whatever reason I see now there was that one specific to x64 registry entry that was left out. I vaguely remembered but have found that reference to member glatzfront for his post. And so thanks to glatzfront, and now thanks to YouKnowWho for being so persistent and bringing attention to it!
I don't know how this was missed it in the first place. I went back looking at some of the very first WinMailEdit.reg I have saved from 1/19/2010 and it's not in it. It's probably because at that time there were many more x86 users than there was x64 users to point it out; I'm more surprised that no other x64 users has spoken up since then though until you. Not that many use x64 WinMail anymore I guess.

And so it seems afterall this new registry entry needs to be put into the current WinMailEdit.reg for x64 users, in order for whichever MS update(s) puts in a check for SFC to check the mail core dll, and if msoe64.dll doesn't match its calling then gets switched out.. which stops WinMail from working.
Deleting this folder key removes that check:


Since I mainly use Windows 7 x86, when I get a chance I'll restore my test bench x64 partition image I made for testing dedicated to WinMail, to verify this registry key 100% and also see if there are any variables! I'm sure it will all prove out, and when it does then I'll get with Slartybart and see if he will edit his download and add the results of this x64 registry entry to put into the WinMailEdit.reg given.

However in the meantime since we now have two members that have confirmed it, if there is anyone else when running x64 and runs SFC and it replaces the original working msoe64.dll with a non-working one and breaks WinMail, then you can remove that registry key above, which will let your run SFC again without it swapping the working msoe64.dll for now, anymore.

Thank you!
My System SpecsSystem Spec
31 May 2015   #1656

Windows 7 Professional

Wow, finally we could made something creative:). Definitely it's a good idea to throw out our clerical part of discussion "I do believe" - "I do not believe" and focuse on common part of problem. I'm glad somebody else just found the same thing: I'm sorry for didn't found it by myself, because it would help me a lot of time.
Now You'll better understand me for Win 8.1, I hope. I mean, that OS needs completely different keys, that's why I need somebody with both x86 and x64 OS's installed.
BTW I almost sure the same is right for Win 10 as well. Please keep in mind I talk about differences between Win 8/10, not only 7/10
My System SpecsSystem Spec
31 May 2015   #1657

Windows 7 Professional

Oh, for deep side of my character
A little part of clerical discussion. I use my x64 machines without all those blank "Advanced" option. And I have empty "Deletes" folder after exit and re-enter program. So, You can repeat "I do not believe" any times You like, but I'll better stay with functionality, You know.
My System SpecsSystem Spec
31 May 2015   #1658

Vista/Win7/Win8/Win10 (x86/x64)

Okay I had some time this morning to fire up my test bench Windows 7 64bit, with WinMail installed, and do some testing, and here are the results:
100% Confirmed, that on Windows x64 using a working WinMail installation, with this registry entry present:
..and running sfc /scannow - it does break a working WinMail installation - WinMail just won't start afterwards and hangs open under processes (end task on WinMail.exe to release)

So as this was happening I did complete Software/Registry tracking of all the changes that SFC did, but I only outline here just what it did to 'to WinMail' to break it, which btw was pretty simple, it just overwrote the 64 bit msoe.dll to its cached version - no big deal at all.
I simply overwrote that msoe.dll back to the working version (which btw is v6.0.6002.18197) ..and WinMail started up again just fine.
So going forward then to stop SFC from doing that for 64 bit users, you can use this simple registry folder key I revised below in a reg file to remove it, or delete it by hand via regedit - and SFC works fine leaving the working msoe.dll alone.
For Tutorial users in future usage, all you need to do is enter this into you current WinMailEdit.reg, right under the other similar x86 SideBySide entry that's in there already right at the bottom:


Note: the exact same proofing procedure I had done with Windows7 x86, and in the same way it was proven to be 100% effective using that x86 SideBySide registry entry that's ''already in'' the current WinMailEdit.reg taking care of that.

Slartybart (Bill) if you want to add this x64 registry entry to the current WinMailEdit.reg that people download from your Page1 post, that would be great.

@ NoMatterWho, thank you again for bringing this x64 to our attention.
Also to your other questions, I can't yet say for sure what the registry folder key is in Windows 8 or Windows 10 since honestly I haven't checked yet; actually I never even use SFC anywhere, I used other methods for repairs.
I do run 32 bit versions of those Win8 & Win10 OS's, and so next time I have a chance I could check them out running SFC and see if the same thing happens to WinMail, and then easily isolate the registry keys involved and detail it. As for 64 bit versions I would have to install test bench setups for each of those (I need to do that anyway for other software testings) and do the same procedure, which should be pretty easy to detail the results.

Thank you
My System SpecsSystem Spec
01 Jun 2015   #1659

x64 (6.3.9600) Win8.1 Pro & soon dual boot x64 (6.1.7601) Win7_SP1 HomePrem

What a great discussion, sorry I missed it. Thanks for the heads up endeavor on the x64 SxS and thank you NoMatterWho for your diligence.

The new package is on post# 1 - either one of you want to take it out for a test drive?

compare files:
Compare: (<) WinMailEdit120515.reg (29522 bytes)
with: (>) WinMailEdit150601.reg (29852 bytes)

< @="6.1"
< [-HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\SideBySide\Winners\x86_microsoft-windows-mail-core-dll_31bf3856ad364e35_none_67a2bdecbd5f60de\6.1]
< "6.1.7600.16385"=hex:01
< @="6.1.7600.16385"
> [-HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\SideBySide\Winners\x86_microsoft-windows-mail-core-dll_31bf3856ad364e35_none_67a2bdecbd5f60de\6.1]
> ;
> ;150601 - Clean up extraneous attribute-value pairs under x86 SxS and include removal of amd64 SideByside keys
> ;
> [-HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\SideBySide\Winners\amd64_microsoft-windows-mail-core-dll_31bf3856ad364e35_none_c3c1597075bcd214]
> [-HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\SideBySide\Winners\amd64_microsoft-windows-mail-core-dll_31bf3856ad364e35_none_c3c1597075bcd214\6.1]

There was some garbage left under the x86 SxS keys - that's cleaned up now.
I also added a sub key \6.1 to mirror the x86 process, although it probably isn't necessary since the main key gets deleted first.

I chuckled when I read the exchange - recalling the debate endeavor and I had on whether or not SFC undid the changes. Now I'll have to go look through the archives to see if I ever had these keys in the reg file for testing, but never uploaded it. These things happen

This should close the book on SxS and WinMail.
My System SpecsSystem Spec

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