XP Mode is slow--any way to improve

I'm quite familiar with virtualization technology and I use it everyday at work (Mostly VMWare ESX and ESXi). At home I typically use VirtualBox.


So, once I got Windows 7 RTM from technet and got it installed on a box at work, I decided to get the Windows XP Mode up and running and check out the published application functionality.

The thing that I noticed right off the bat is that this Virtual Mode XP box is pretty darn slow on startup and starting applications within it compared to other VM applications.

The machine I am using is as follows:
--Asus P5QL Mobo
--Intel Core 2 Duo E8400 CPU at 3.0Ghz
--4GB of Corsair DDR-800 RAM
--Intel 10/100/1000 NIC
--Western Digital Caviar Black 500GB hard drive.

So, as a test, I configured the XP Mode box and installed Open Office 3.0.1 onto that box.

With a fresh reboot of Windows 7 Ultimate, I fired up the XP Mode Windows XP SP3 instance and it took 56 seconds to get me to a desktop without an hourglass. I then launched open office writer and it took 10 seconds to get me to a blank document.

I then rebooted the host Windows 7 machine, and I fired up the Published Application version of Open Office write and this took 1 minute and 8 seconds to open.

So, then I installed Virtual Box 3.0.4. I created a new Windows XP SP3 machine...and ran into the first problem (You cannot run Virtual PC and Virtual Box at the same time.(get error about exclusive access to the Intel VT root)..so I had to uninstall Virtual PC). Then I installed Windows XP SP3 from a slipstreamed ISO file (took about 10 minutes to install).

I then rebooted the Windows 7 host machine and launched the Windows XP SP3 machine. It was booted to a desktop with no hourglass in 25 seconds. Remember, this same process with the XP Mode Virtual PC machine took 56 seconds.

I then rebooted the Windows 7 host machine and timed how long it took to boot up Windows XP SP3 from Virtual Box and launch OpenOffice writer to the point where I could work on a document. This took 35 seconds.

So, to reiterate
--Windows XP SP3 under Virtual PC (Virtual XP Mode) boot time: 56 seconds
--Windows XP SP3 under Virtual Box 3.0.4 boot time: 25 seconds.

--Windows XP SP3 under Virtual PC booting and then opening Writer: 66 sec.
--Windows XP SP3 under Virtual Box 3.0.4 and then opening writer: 35 sec.



So, I'm wondering if anything can be tweaked or modified to improve the performance of Windows XP running under the XP Mode function of Windows??

The obvious issue to me is that MS provides a license and ability to freely run Windows XP SP3 under Windows 7 pro, enterprise or Ultimate when you download and use their Virtual XP Mode. However, in my scenario where you install instead XP on your own..you don't have a key and the key provided in the cdkey.txt file with Virtual PC won't work. So technically you would have to purchase a license. I happen to have a volume license copy at work that I can use for my volume license tests....but that isn't the point here.

The second issue is that for people wanting to run other non-MS operating systems like Linux or Solaris...I've found in the past that support for Virtual Machine tools and so forth under Virtual PC is pretty bad and so is performance within the VM compared to other software like VMWare, or VirtualBox. And as I found out during the above testing, it doesn't seem that I can run both Virtual PC and Virtual Box at the same time....so I seem to either lose my free license to XP or lose ability to run other non-MS os's if I want the best speed/performance of my virtual machines.

It just seems like MS could have provided a faster environment for the Windows XP Mode. I mean it's 1/2 as fast as Virtual Box on the same hardware. That's pretty signficant.

Any ideas?????

are you using same RAM? XP mode is configured as 256M, not sure if faster if increasing it.

XP mode uses RDP for display, which migt be one of the reason.

You don't need to uninstall VPC, as long as you don't use it same time

Good points there huisinro. In addition, VBox has more configurable options, like SATA support as well as better virtualized hardware support that XP Mode simply does not have. In addition, there is another thread in this forum on how to get rid of the new VPC and go back to VPC 2007 SP1, which seems to not only have fewer compatibility problems but also seems to be much faster.

huisinro said:

are you using same RAM? XP mode is configured as 256M, not sure if faster if increasing it.

Click to expand...

Yes, I configured RAM the same. On my box, it gave Windows XP 512MB

huisinro said:

You don't need to uninstall VPC, as long as you don't use it same time

Click to expand...

That wasn't my experience. I loaded Windows XP Mode first, then loaded Virtual Box 3.0.4. I then rebooted the box, fired up virtual box, created a new virtual machine and when I clicked on Start, I got "VirtualBox can't operating in VMX root mode" and the virtual machine won't start. So, I didn't have Virtual PC running and hadn't used it since I rebooted. As soon as I uninstalled Virtual PC, VirtualBox worked fine and dandy. It's the same thing discussed in this thread on the VirtualBox forums.Virtual Box can't start VMs on Win7 RC host with Virtual PC (View topic) • virtualbox.org

I really wish this free license to run XP was not tied to the fact that it has to be their provided image in their virtualization software. Like I said before, I tend to run more Linux VM's than Windows and these are not surprisingly very well supported under the Microsoft product. And until I get the above problem fixed, I cannot use them both at same time.

Do you want to test our xpm mode impl? it's very fast

Windows XP Mode on any PC

send an email to get a test build

Which VM is that using, VMWare or something else?

Hi John,

The virtual machine engine is VBox, integrated with our application virtualization. We will gradually add more and more app virtualization, e.g., application catridge, u can install apps in vm, and move all apps to use on another vm, etc.

Hi there
I've posted previously about XP mode -- really nice idea but horribly implemented.

If you MUST use XP mode then you can improve it a bit by disabling "Desktop Integration" which then makes Vitual PC behave a bit more like other Virtual Machine software -- However this then raises the point about the "usefulness of XP mode".

The only advantage with XP mode that I can see is you get a copy of Windows XP which doesn't need activation.

If you want the BEST performance running an XP virtual machine on a Windows 7 Host run them under vmware server.

A server application will always be better than a workstation application for this type of function.

Whilst its a bit tricky to set up it really works fine and is free. The other advantage is that the VM's can start up as system services so if you want to access these VM's remotely you don't have to log on to your host first and start the vm application and power on the virtual machine.

Vmware server is FREE as well. Vmware server technically should run on a server OS itself but it works just fine on W7. I'm using W7 X-64 and usually have 3 or 4 concurrent VM's running just fine on a 4GB Ram machine.
One XP virtual machine I'm running has a full blown copy of adobe photoshop CS4 on it and still gives almost "Native" performance.

cheers
jimbo

jimbo45 said:

The only advantage with XP mode that I can see is you get a copy of Windows XP which doesn't need activation.

Click to expand...

Yes, and that's a pretty nice perk if you ask me. I just remember reading at first that if you have Windows 7 Pro, Ent or Ult..that you will get a license to run XP. So, I thought, hey this is a pretty good deal.

But since it seems to only be applicable if using their configuration and I know from previous personal experience that performance can be MUCH improved, it's a bit of a letdown.

I think I would be just fine if I could get VirtualBox running while also have Windows XP mode there....so I could use my valid and legal XP license for XP and use the performance of VirtualBox/VMware/etc to run my other VM's.

At the end of the day though, it's still good to see MS providing this and bringing a few more people into the world of virtualization. Getting XP Mode setup and working was an absolute piece of cake and I generally think that those who haven't ever used a VM in the past won't even notice any performance hit as they will be blown away simply with how cool the technology and the concept is.

Ok, a little more testing shows that VirtualBox 3.0.4 and Windows 7 XP mode can live happily together. It seems that if you launch XP Mode, and then close out the app it does take some time for the virtual pc application to relinquish control to the OS...so I was just trying to start VirtualBox a bit too fast.

What i do still have a problem with is if I launch on of the Published Apps and then close the published app...the vpc.exe process continues to run and as long as it's running, I cannot start a VM under Vbox without getting the error about accessing the Intel VT root. A quick process stop in task manager does rectify this situation.

Just an update to this thread....I downloaded the new VMWare Player 3.0 software yesterday which now allows you to create VM's as well as play them back.

VMWare Player 3.0 times:
Time to boot Windows XP SP3 with 1 CPU and 512MB RAM: 24 seconds
Time to boot Windows XP SP3 and launch Open Office writer: 38 seconds

Sun VirtualBox 3.0.4 times:
Time to boot Windows XP SP3 with 1 CPU and 512MB RAM: 25 seconds
Time to boot Windows XP SP3 and launch Open Office writer: 35 seconds

Windows XP Mode:
Time to boot Windows XP SP3 with 1 CPU and 512MB RAM: 56 seconds
Time to boot Windows XP SP3 and launch Open Office writer: 66 seconds

So, as you can see above, the performance numbers from VMWare Player 3.0 are very close to Sun's VirtualBox and both Sun's product and the VMWare product are much faster than Windows XP Mode.

Also, the VMWare Player supports Unity mode...which allows you to launch applications installed on the VM local on the host (similar to the Published Application feature of XP Mode). Also, VMWare Player supports full 3d acceleration...including the Aero interface.

EDIT: And, if you have Windows XP Mode installed on your Win 7 Pro, Enterprise or Ultimate box..there is an option right within VMWare Player 3.0 under File...to import that VM right into VMWare Player 3.0. Therefore, you can use the the provided XP Virtual Machine that Microsoft provided with a valid key, but in the VMWare Player 3.0 application.

Hi there
I've just posted about the new vmware player and the unity feature -- this is more like how MS SHOULD have done it. - Decent graphics, decent local drive integration and PERFORMANCE.

The "Driverless Printer" feature is absolutely 100% spot on for people who need to print from the XP legacy application -- you shouldn't have to go through hoops to get such a basic piece of kit such as a printer to work.

Note also performance is more than just how long it takes to boot and start an application -- EXCEL 2007 with some macros ran nearly as quick as it did on the HOST machine.

BTW don't give your VM too much RAM - there ISN'T a reliable co-relation to what a REAL and a VIRTUAL machine's RAM requirements are. Unless you are running something like a SAP test ERP system with an Oracle database on the guest a 512MB RAM for XP will be more than sufficient for 99.9% of typical home user applications -- I assume you aren't going to do a huge amount of video editing or run photoshop CS4 with huge files on your XP VM.

Cheers
jimbo

Yeah, VMWare Player 3.0 is my resident application for virtualization on my home machine for the time being. I don't do much printing from my computers...so thanks for posting about the print driver support...just another + for this great release from VMWare.

The greatest thing to happen to the virtualization space was competition and we the consumers are reaping the benefits of vmware, microsoft and sun all competing with each other in this space.

Just my 2c worth...

When I went from the final beta of VPC to the "real thing" post Win7 release, the speed of the otherwise really SLOW VPC start up really did improve lots.



Unfortunately, the beta version of the VHD is not compatible with the actual release.



Still, considering I only NEED it for just the ONE app, it's good enough for me to use it (VPC that is) rather than VMWare.

I am however, keeping my VMWare server set up on another PC so I have my original VM "just in case" and lets face it, it's always good to have a back up!

bjrichus said:

When I went from the final beta of VPC to the "real thing" post Win7 release, the speed of the otherwise really SLOW VPC start up really did improve lots.

Click to expand...

Fair enough...when I get some time to download this I will download it and give it a shot and see what improvements there are in terms of speed.

Hi there
It IS a bit better but its still running about as fast as a one legged dog could run on a perfectly smooth ice pond.

I chucked it after about 10 mins -- graphics are also still a load of sh--e compared with vmware's newest workstation 7 or player.

Cheers
jimbo

Yeah, I time tested the latest version of XP Mode on the same hardware today and compared that to VMWare Player 3.0 using the VMWare converter to convert the exact XP Mode VM into VMWare player.

Boot times for XP Mode to a usable desktop was 48 seconds. That's about 8 seconds faster than it used to be. And likely perfectly acceptable to most people who are experiencing virtualization for the first time. And it's super easy to install...will give them props there.

Boot times for VMWare Player 3.0 using the same XP image: 23 seconds.

So, as you can see, VMWare Player is 2x as fast starting up that VM and getting to a usable system. Plus, VMware Player doesn't require hardware virualization...and it doesn't require XP Pro, Enterprise or Ultimate.

I've been having similar problems with very slow typing and browser performance in Windows XP mode. I got it because I have to run Cisco VPN to connect to work, and the VPN doesn't install on 64-bit. Other than that, I'm very happy with Windows 7 64-bit, in fact I love it. But the Microsoft XP mode was running pretty slow. I saw a previous posting on this blog from Sept. 2009, by huisinro, about a different virtual server called VMLite. I thought I'd give it a try, so I downloaded and installed. It works with my existing downloaded version of XP that came with XP mode, so that was free (with Windows 7 professional version). The bad news is that I will have to reinstall all the apps, it didn't recognize all the apps I had already installed on Microsoft XP mode - which I wouldn't have expected it to, since it seems to be running it's own VM server, or something like that. The good news is that this VMLite virtual machine just flies. I mean it's really fast, I almost think it's faster than the Windows 7 machine itself! Browser is fast, typing is fast, and the Cisco installed just fine (after I figured out that the install disk has to be in the "D" drive CD-ROM instead of the "E" drive, for some reason). This is really cool. Thanks huisinro!!! I never write on these blogs, I actually registered for this one just to pass this along. Another cool thing, I can access my "normal" C drive from the virtual machine.

Hi there
I believe there's NO problem on re-activating an OLD copy of Windows XP (Not an OEM copy version) installed on a VM.

When activating just use the PHONE methode of activation.

Just say you've got a new machine -- you still need XP for some older legacy apps -- don't tell them you've installed on to a VM.

They will re-activate it -- no probs at all. It's quite legal as well as you are allowed to "transfer" the OS from one system to another one.

Before activating however decide on your VM configuration as significantly altering the amount of RAM allocated to your VM *might* cause a re-activation prompt.

Another advantage of course if you "clone" the VM it won't require further activation since it's an identical machine. - Under the EULA though you can't run more than one of these VM's concurrently on DIFFERENT machines -- the law is unclear (IMO - however any legal eagles here could clarify) about multiple VM's on the SAME machine however.

If you are testing at home I doubt if MS will send the "Blackboots" around however.

Some people have also managed posts on extracting the native XP system from the XP mode system. Note that when downloading you need to specify Windows Professional or higher - you won't be able to download if you specify Windows Home Premium.

Incidentally a VM running under VMWARE or VBOX will improve after 2 or 3 bootups of the GUEST OS'es -- both Host and VM will have optimised some features of the OS and it takes a while for the optimising algorithms to build up some history data on which to build the optimisation.

Cheers
jimbo