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Windows 7: Wat update - yes/no?

10 Mar 2010   #61
sanford

windows 7
 
 

So unless I want to further "help the MS shareholders" (being I already purchased Windows 7), installing the update is in fact pointless?

No wonder why I fail to understand people intentionally installing this (given a choice)....


My System SpecsSystem Spec
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10 Mar 2010   #62
Tews

64-bit Windows 8.1 Pro
 
 

If you purchased the software, you have already helped the stockholders and on their behalf, I thank you!
My System SpecsSystem Spec
10 Mar 2010   #63
Kari

 

Maybe it is important to add something to what I said earlier: You have no obligation to install Windows Activation Technologies (WAT) Update KB971033 as long as it is voluntary. You can just uncheck and hide it. It's OK, your choice, as EULA states. No problems with that.

I just don't see the point fighting the inevitable. Sometime in the near future this update is no longer optional. You let it be installed, or you don't use the Windows. (I'm intentionally not mentioning other options; we are all honest, aren't we?)

This is only my subjective opinion, not a fact, but from every peace of information I've gathered I think Microsoft is beginning to fight piracy with more powerful and innovative means. Please do not tell me, once again, that pirates are already working, too, with cracks to fight back. I know that already; this is not an ideal world and we have to admit criminals are here among us to stay.

I've used this Norton AV as an example a couple of times. Let me ask this: why aren't the Norton (or any other commercial AV) users fighting against the policy to almost daily check the validity of the licence?

Please give a valid reason to object WAT. A connection four times a year, lasting no longer than a couple of seconds, is in my opinion not enough.

Kari
My System SpecsSystem Spec
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10 Mar 2010   #64
Staple Head

Windows 7
 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by Kari View Post
Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by Staple Head View Post
what part of the fact that we do not want something phoning home do you not understand? that is the main issue. as for the patch being forced on user that do not want it, NOT. as previously stated in this thread kb971033 has already ben cracked and microsoft will fix it and it will be cracked again. when it is included in sp1 hackers will simply rewrite sp1 to not include it. regardless of the eula most user consider the copy of the os that they paid for theirs, and this is not going to change just because microsoft says so.
What part of facts stated in the Windows 7 EULA you agreed to 'obey' and follow when you installed Microsoft's property (Windows) do you not understand?

EULA, paragraphs 4 and 5(a) & (b):
Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by Windows 7 EULA
4. MANDATORY ACTIVATION.

Activation associates the use of the software with a specific computer. During activation, the software will send information about the software and the computer to Microsoft. This information includes the version, language and product key of the software, the Internet protocol address of the computer, and information derived from the hardware configuration of the computer. For more information, see Windows 7 Privacy Statement - Microsoft Windows. By using the software, you consent to the transmission of this information. If properly licensed, you have the right to use the version of the software installed during the installation process up to the time permitted for activation. Unless the software is activated, you have no right to use the software after the time permitted for activation. This is to prevent its unlicensed use. You are not permitted to bypass or circumvent activation. If the computer is connected to the Internet, the software may automatically connect to Microsoft for activation. You can also activate the software manually by Internet or telephone. If you do so, Internet and telephone service charges may apply. Some changes to your computer components or the software may require you to reactivate the software. The software will remind you to activate it until you do.

5. VALIDATION.
a. Validation verifies that the software has been activated and is properly licensed. It also verifies that no unauthorized changes have been made to the validation, licensing, or activation functions of the software. Validation may also check for certain malicious or unauthorized software related to such unauthorized changes. A validation check confirming that you are properly licensed permits you to continue to use the software, certain features of the software or to obtain additional benefits. You are not permitted to circumvent validation. This is to prevent unlicensed use of the software. For more information, see Genuine Microsoft Software.

b. The software will from time to time perform a validation check of the software. The check may be initiated by the software or Microsoft. To enable the activation function and validation checks, the software may from time to time require updates or additional downloads of the validation, licensing or activation functions of the software. The updates or downloads are required for the proper functioning of the software and may be downloaded and installed without further notice to you. During or after a validation check, the software may send information about the software, the computer and the results of the validation check to Microsoft. This information includes, for example, the version and product key of the software, any unauthorized changes made to the validation, licensing or activation functions of the software, any related malicious or unauthorized software found and the Internet protocol address of the computer. Microsoft does not use the information to identify or contact you. By using the software, you consent to the transmission of this information. For more information about validation and what is sent during or after a validation check, see Genuine Microsoft Software.
Microsoft does not force us to use Windows. If you pay for the licence, or obtain it in another legal way, Microsoft allows you to use Windows as long as you agree to EULA. If you don't agree, you should IMO use Linux or other OS instead.

Windows is not the first OS or application to call home and certainly not the last, quite a number of applications do this. The AV program checks the validity of the licence etc.

I repeat what I've said numerous times: If the user has nothing to hide, what harm can be done and how the h*** would user even notice it, if Windows 'calls home' 4 times year without user even noticing it?

Kari
what part of that the eula is just a click through and nothing more do you not understand? i as most users believe that once we pay for OUR copy of the os / software it is OUR copy. we did not miss understand anything. it is microsoft that misunderstands and believes that they are only loaning us that copy. so again the eula means nothing to the average user. as for the calling home yes we will know if it attempts to call home. this is why i always strongly recommend the end user remove / disable all microsoft security software and replace it with much better third party security software. another note on phoning home here in the states the software by law has to be designed to tell the end user when it is doing so.
My System SpecsSystem Spec
10 Mar 2010   #65
Kari

 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by Staple Head View Post
what part of that the eula is just a click through and nothing more do you not understand?
Every part. If the user is too lazy to read, or reads but doesn't understand what it means when he / she clicks the 'I Agree' button, it's hardly Microsoft's fault.

For those who read and understand, there's always the 'I do not Agree' button if EULA causes a problem.


Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by Staple Head View Post
i as most users believe that once we pay for OUR copy of the os / software it is OUR copy. we did not miss understand anything. it is microsoft that misunderstands and believes that they are only loaning us that copy.
Yes you did miss the most essential part of Windows Licence Agreement. It's just as the name says, a licence agreement which determines the rules that let you use the Windows. It is not a proof of ownership.


Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by Staple Head View Post
so again the eula means nothing to the average user.
The principle is same than in western law: not knowing the law is not a reason enough to avoid sanctions if the law in question is broken. Or more common situation: You can not sue the microwave manufacturer if it explodes when you heat metal objects in it, even when you had not read the warning in the manual.

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by Staple Head View Post
as for the calling home yes we will know if it attempts to call home. this is why i always strongly recommend the end user remove / disable all microsoft security software and replace it with much better third party security software. another note on phoning home here in the states the software by law has to be designed to tell the end user when it is doing so.
This interests me. Please could you be so kind and tell me which commercial security applications do not 'call home' to check the validity of the licence?

Kari
My System SpecsSystem Spec
10 Mar 2010   #66
Staple Head

Windows 7
 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by Kari View Post
Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by Staple Head View Post
what part of that the eula is just a click through and nothing more do you not understand?
Every part. If the user is too lazy to read, or reads but doesn't understand what it means when he / she clicks the 'I Agree' button, it's hardly Microsoft's fault.

For those who read and understand, there's always the 'I do not Agree' button if EULA causes a problem.


Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by Staple Head View Post
i as most users believe that once we pay for OUR copy of the os / software it is OUR copy. we did not miss understand anything. it is microsoft that misunderstands and believes that they are only loaning us that copy.
Yes you did miss the most essential part of Windows Licence Agreement. It's just as the name says, a licence agreement which determines the rules that let you use the Windows. It is not a proof of ownership.


Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by Staple Head View Post
so again the eula means nothing to the average user.
The principle is same than in western law: not knowing the law is not a reason enough to avoid sanctions if the law in question is broken. Or more common situation: You can not sue the microwave manufacturer if it explodes when you heat metal objects in it, even when you had not read the warning in the manual.

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by Staple Head View Post
as for the calling home yes we will know if it attempts to call home. this is why i always strongly recommend the end user remove / disable all microsoft security software and replace it with much better third party security software. another note on phoning home here in the states the software by law has to be designed to tell the end user when it is doing so.
This interests me. Please could you be so kind and tell me which commercial security applications do not 'call home' to check the validity of the license?

Kari
i did not miss anything. again as stated most user could care less what the eula is. is is a click not a signature.
My System SpecsSystem Spec
10 Mar 2010   #67
Kari

 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by Staple Head View Post
i did not miss anything. again as stated most user could care less what the eula is. is is a click not a signature.
Please if you do not mind, I'm still waiting the answer to my question. Could you be so kind and tell me which commercial security applications do not 'call home' to check the validity of the license?
My System SpecsSystem Spec
10 Mar 2010   #68
Tews

64-bit Windows 8.1 Pro
 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by Staple Head View Post
i did not miss anything. again as stated most user could care less what the eula is. is is a click not a signature.
What you or others care about is irrelevant...when you click "I agree", you are binding yourself to that agreement, just as if you in fact signed it...
My System SpecsSystem Spec
10 Mar 2010   #69
Staple Head

Windows 7
 
 

Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by Tews View Post
Quote   Quote: Originally Posted by Staple Head View Post
i did not miss anything. again as stated most user could care less what the eula is. is is a click not a signature.
What you or others care about is irrelevant...when you click "I agree", you are binding yourself to that agreement, just as if you in fact signed it...
no we are not. we do not care about the eula. with the eula if you tweak even the smallest thing in windows you have violated it. it is my copy i will tweak it as i see fit for my use. as for kari's question most security only checks to see if you defs are up to date. only a hand full actually check validation while check the def versions.
My System SpecsSystem Spec
10 Mar 2010   #70
mpcrsc562

Windows 7 Ultimate x64
 
 

tweaking and tampering are two different things...

and if people like to sign / click blindly, i have a draft for you to sign that would give me total control of your assests and property. wanna sign it without reading it first?
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 Wat update - yes/no?




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