Why use "Libraries" when you dont know where the files are located ?

Hi,
Some programs do insert some folders in the public area which to is pretty annoying
For me CorelDraw 6 & Chasy's Draw and even NVidia does for some odd reason

You have to delete the public folders, I do.

Im trying to understand what a junction is for sure. I guess im not understanding. In the program JLM I see a junction link and a destination It would seam I should be able to find the destination The users\public\ exists but no documents foler exists there. see "confusion one.jpg"
Then I tried to browes to the junction link users programdata\documents and we have the famouse pesky lock NOT accessible. access is denied. see photo "confusion2.jpg"
So it must be the actual existing folder is the junction link and the destination is ? or I dont get it

DonMurray said:

So I installed that little program JLM to see, I made print screens of the results.
I see that I am locked out of the junction link and I can not find the destination. See Confusion 2.jpg
and then confusionone.jpg shows that I dont find a destination.

Why is there a lock on the junction folder ??
What folders actually exist and what folders actually are just faux folders. ?

See explanation here:

whocares said:

To whom it may concern:

If you understand Junctions, Hard Links, and Symbolic Links, please disregard.

If you do not understand these, I would highly recommend leaving them alone. You also need to understand the Security permissions for them and the reason Microsoft used them.

(Windows 7 x86 or 64-bit)

Junctions, Hard Links, and Symbolic Links are pointers to other objects, and these objects include Junctions, Hard Links, and Symbolic Links. In Windows Explorer (file manager), there is no indication if a folder is actually a folder or a Junction. A Junction can point to an actual folder, and that folder can include a Junction that points to another folder. (I think a Junction can point to another Junction, but I may be wrong.) Deleting a Junction will only delete the pointer, but copying a Junction will paste a copy of the actual folder. Hard Links and Symbolic Links work differently. One or both will delete the actual folder when it is deleted. If you want more information, Google Hard Links and/or Symbolic Links.

Junctions, Hard Links, and Symbolic Links are quite useful, but you need to understand how they work. I believe that the Windows "Libraries" use these, or something similar. For example, you could create your own Library as a folder on your Desktop. These are functionally equivalent to the actual folders, and an application will not know that it is not using the actual folder. Some applications store data in their "C:\Program Files\" directory, but using a Junction you could change where it stores its data.

One problem that can arise is creating a folder st the actual location. A Junction for "C:\Program Files\Some Game\Saved Games\" could point to "D:\All Games\Some Game\Saves\". If for some reason an actual folder was created in the original folder, it can cause problems. If an actual folder is created in the "C:\Program Files\Some Game\Saved Games\" directory, strange things can happen. You could have a Junction for "C:\Program Files\Some Game\Saved Games\" and a folder "C:\Program Files\Some Game\Saved Games\New Folder". If I am not mistaken, these will be presented as the same location. This is similar to the Windows Start Menu.

With Windows 7, Microsoft decided to cleanup some of the older locations for certain folders. Among these is "My Documents". Some Applications have hard-coded the path based upon older Windows versions. Using Junctions allows these Applications to think they are writing and reading from the original location. Some Applications will "walk the tree" to determine the location, and they can inadvertently create a folder in the original location. In order to keep this from occurring, Microsoft set certain Security permissions on these Junctions ("List folder" and "Traverse folder"). The "Trusted Installer" is the Owner, and taking Ownership from this user is difficult but not impossible. This was done to keep Users from "breaking" the file structure. Windows Explorer is an Application, and therefore, it cannot "List folder" to display the contents.

The multiple folders arise because a Junction may point to folder that has a Junction(s) that eventually points back to the original folder. Also, an actual folder may have been created in the location the first Junction is re-mapping. The result is that they regress on themselves. This is similar to two mirrors pointing at each other or a TV camera showing a TV set with the picture from the camera.

To my knowledge, Microsoft has not documented this in one place. In order to learn this, I had to do a lot of Googling and reading. Some of these things are in the Developer documentation and other things are "Tribal Knowledge". I was trying to move my "Users" folder from the "C:\Users\" to "D:\UserFiles\", and I was determined to do it. Contrary to the usual answer, it IS possible, but it is NOT easy. I did it, and it worked. I reverted back because I missed something somewhere, and folders were being created in the re-mapped locations.

(I also replaced the HAL which is impossible according to Microsoft. It is doable but not pleasant.)

I did not go into this detail in my original reply because you really should plan to reinstall or restore a disk image. I do not know if System Restore will replace the original file structure (Junctions and permissions), but restoring from a backup will not. Somewhere down the road, you are going to have stranger things happening, and you will reinstall Windows. At this point, you should image your disk because you may not have gotten all your data, and this will allow you to find it.

Finally, you should do some research before using a utility like JunctionBox. There are a lot of ramifications to making these changes. The "Take Ownership" utility is another one to be used with caution. The above is not a definitive explanation. That would take more time than I am willing to expend.

This is not a flame - just an observation. If you cannot find a System utility like JunctionBox by Googling it, you really should not be using it.

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I did not intend for you to download that software and somehow managed to leave the name of the software in the screenshot.

You still appear to be confusing the use of Desktop.ini and the use of Junctions. These are to totally unrelated things

The desktop.ini file changes the properties of a folder, it's name presented in File explorer, it's icon etc - there is only ever one folder involved, the one that contains the hidden / system file "desktop.ini"

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Symbolic links, (junctions) are a special type of shortcut. used in many operating systems. a symbolic link is used to provide a transparent link from one location to another. This is mostly used in windows to "fool" old programs which were incorrectly coded to use a specific location and not use a system variable which is the correct way - For Example - the Junction is used to enable a program written for XP to find the new location for "Documents & settings" which is now in a different location.

As the junction is a transparent normal file and folder functions do not work so although the junction is working and the program gives no error, an attempt to check the folder gives an error. opening a junction actually opens the target folder

There are always two locations involved with a junction The phantom folder that is the actual junction and the target folder that contains the files

DonMurray said:

Im trying to understand what a junction is for sure. I guess im not understanding. In the program JLM I see a junction link and a destination It would seam I should be able to find the destination The users\public\ exists but no documents foler exists there.

Then I tried to browes to the junction link users programdata\documents and we have the famouse pesky lock NOT accessible. access is denied.

Okay to put it in a simple way - you should not have access to those locked folders and that is the way it should be by design.

If you want to know what is in C:\ProgramData\Documents - it actually points to C:\Users\Public\Documents so that is where you should look.

Hi,
Most of the lock symbols I've noticed are actually the win-7 default administrator account not my administrator account so possibly that is what is throwing you off ?