Beyond Windows 7

msalton1 · Dec 17, 2018

I believe the support end date for Win 7 is what...Jan 2020? So what are people planning to do beyond that? I have 5 machines here, all running win 7 except for one win 8 machine that I've configured to be pretty much like win 7.

Is win 10 still the privacy crippled dumbed down smartphone-like OS it was when I tried it (pre-release)?

Can the settings be secured to maintain privacy and security? Can one get under the hood?

I'll probably think about going with Linux for some machines, but I need windows for some of my business software. I guess I could run it in a VM, but would want good performance and a no-hassle operation.

I'm rambling. Is win 10 "doable" for us diehard win 7 users? What are others here planning after it's over?

samuria · Dec 17, 2018

Thr problem will come sooner firms wont want to make software and drivers for a old windows as its not cost effective so they will only support 10. For 64 bit drivers firms have to pay MS so they wont for a dwindling market. Never has MS done what they have with 10 thats give you FREE a new windows every 6 months. You proberley never wanted to stop using xp but had to in the end its the same with 10 most of it is like 7

msalton1 · Dec 17, 2018

samuria said:
Thr problem will come sooner firms wont want to make software and drivers for a old windows as its not cost effective so they will only support 10. For 64 bit drivers firms have to pay MS so they wont for a dwindling market. Never has MS done what they have with 10 thats give you FREE a new windows every 6 months. You proberley never wanted to stop using xp but had to in the end its the same with 10 most of it is like 7

Which lends credence to the idea that the user is the product.

I don't have a problem 'moving on', I just like the idea of giving up privacy to do it.

My primary concerns in moving to Win 10 are privacy & security. Beyond that, I'd like flexibility in configuring the OS to meet my needs. My perception is that win 10 falls short on all three counts, but I'm not up to speed on 10, which is why I posted.

Do you feel that you've made unpleasant compromises in the switch to 10?

Megahertz07 · Dec 18, 2018

As long as you don't have any hardware failure there is nothing to worry about.
Win 7 will work after the end of M$ support as it work today. The only change is that there will be no updates.

Just make sure you have the a installation disk and all offline updates.
MS releases SP2 for Windows 7

Paul Black · Dec 18, 2018

Hi msalton1,

Megahertz07 said:
As long as you don't have any hardware failure there is nothing to worry about.
Win 7 will work after the end of M$ support as it work today. The only change is that there will be no updates.
Just make sure you have the a installation disk and all offline updates.

I agree with Megahertz07.

I always download the WU's [.msu's] for both the Security-Only-Updates and the Cumulative-Monthly-Rollups. I also keep a clean All-In-One ISO. I also download all the critical [and possibly some important] updates along with any that I think are important enough to have etc. This way, I can pretty much create a new installation ISO to my needs at any time.

I have also got...

[1] - KB3020369 - Servicing Stack Update - April 2015.
[2] - KB3125574 - Convenience Rollup Package - May 2016.
[3] - KB3172605 - Functional Update Rollup [THIS ONE IS IMPORTANT] - July 2016.
[4] - KB3179573 - Functional Update Rollup - August 2016.

... and the latest SSU.

The most important thing is to make sure that when we get to 2020 that we have everything necessary in order to be able to install Windows 7 that runs smoothly, hardware permitting.

Disk images are obviously another option.

I hope this helps!

file3456 · Dec 18, 2018

I haven't used updates since I ran Windows 98se. No virus crap, no hacking crap. It's all on how YOU use your computer and the software that protects YOU from yourself.

I have, and apparently it's "outdated" and prone to hacking and virus crap, an XP netbook that's on 24/7. Its purpose is a small local FTP server, phone call annunciator and call blocker and Team Speak server. It has never been "hacked" or gotten a virus.

Again, it's all in how you use your machine. I don't even run an anti-virus. I use Sandboxie as my gate before the fortress and I'll stop there. Just read my system specs. Definition anti-virus is not going to protect you, and updates won't stop future CVEs, ransomware or polymorphic malware. It's all one big pile and this update mandate people put on is a fallacy.

If you have a server with an open port to the world then that's a completely different situation. In fact, patch every and all vulnerabilities no matter how small. I've read that the special mathematical folks at no such agency will pry open a vulnerability no matter how small. Check your server IP at Shodan. I can't tell you how many unpatched servers I've seen out there.

For me personally, the only draw back to not upgrading is games and programs will eventually not work with 7 anymore. And if I want a Coffee Lake CPU and up I need a 300 series MOBO and the MOBO manufacture only has Win 10 MOBO drivers for a 300 series MOBO. So that puts a giant hole in this monopoly. Rich Uncle Penny Bags would be proud. And M$ gets free parking all the time at your analytics expense.

Come the time I do use 10 I'm deploying a hardware-based firewall and blocking ALL of M$'s ASNs. I'm not letting anything M$ in or out of MY machine. If I need M$ I'll use the VPN. The very fact 10 comes with a built-in keylogger should frighten everyone. But seen as how we roam around public with a marketer's wet dream come true -- the smartphone, It's no wonder no one cares.

It's a brave new world out there. At least it better be.

file3456 · Dec 18, 2018

Beyond Windows 7

Kinda like Bed Bath & Beyond.

msalton1 · Dec 18, 2018

Paul Black said:
Hi msalton1,

I agree with Megahertz07.

I always download the WU's [.msu's] for both the Security-Only-Updates and the Cumulative-Monthly-Rollups. I also keep a clean All-In-One ISO. I also download all the critical [and possibly some important] updates along with any that I think are important enough to have etc. This way, I can pretty much create a new installation ISO to my needs at any time.

I have also got...

[1] - KB3020369 - Servicing Stack Update - April 2015.
[2] - KB3125574 - Convenience Rollup Package - May 2016.
[3] - KB3172605 - Functional Update Rollup [THIS ONE IS IMPORTANT] - July 2016.
[4] - KB3179573 - Functional Update Rollup - August 2016.

... and the latest SSU.

The most important thing is to make sure that when we get to 2020 that we have everything necessary in order to be able to install Windows 7 that runs smoothly, hardware permitting.

Disk images are obviously another option.

I hope this helps!

Hi Paul - I actually haven't finished that 'new install' to the new SSD, but got to thinking...only another year until support drops. Thus this thread. You & Megahertz07 make a good point about having all of the expedient updates on hand. But since I haven't downloaded and saved them to disk, how would I (easily) obtain the necessary 'list' and then download them? I'm assuming there could be a great many, so the process could get tedious.

And, unless a way is developed to get around the new hardware activation snare for Win 7 (after support drops), there can be no upgrading of a machine, which could be problematic if there is an activation triggering component failure.

I suppose the way to handle things is to upgrade my machines by 2020. That could get expensive, since I have 4 windows 7 machines running here. I always buy quality components for my builds (it always pays off in problem free longevity), so that could add up pretty quickly.

As to obtaining the updates...any suggestions on obtaining a list and efficient method of downloading them?

Thanks.

msalton1 · Dec 18, 2018

F22 Simpilot said:
I haven't used updates since I ran Windows 98se. No virus crap, no hacking crap. It's all on how YOU use your computer and the software that protects YOU from yourself.

I have, and apparently it's "outdated" and prong to hacking and virus crap, an XP netbook that's on 24/7. Its purpose is a small local FTP server, phone call annunciator and call blocker and Team Speak server. It has never been "hacked" or gotten a virus.

Again, it's all in how you use your machine. I don't even run an anti-virus. I use Sandboxie as my gate before the fortress and I'll stop there. Just read my system specs. Definition anti-virus is not going to protect you, and updates won't stop future CVEs, ransomware or polymorphic malware. It's all one big pile and this update mandate people put on is a fallacy.

If you have a server with an open port to the world then that's a completely different situation. In fact, patch every and all vulnerabilities no matter how small. I've read that the special mathematical folks at no such agency will pry open a vulnerability no matter how small. Check your server IP at Shodan. I can't tell you how many unpatched servers I've seen out there.

For me personally, the only draw back to not upgrading is games and programs will eventually not work with 7 anymore. And if I want a Coffee Lake CPU and up I need a 300 series MOBO and the MOBO manufacture only has Win 10 MOBO drivers for a 300 series MOBO. So that puts a giant hole in this monopoly. Rich Uncle Penny Bags would be proud. And M$ gets free parking all the time at your analytics expense.

Come the time I do use 10 I'm deploying a hardware-based firewall and blocking ALL of M$'s ASNs. I'm not letting anything M$ in or out of MY machine. If I need M$ I'll use the VPN. The very fact 10 comes with a built-in keylogger should frighten everyone. But seen as how we roam around public with a marketer's wet dream come true -- the smartphone, It's no wonder no one cares.

It's a brave new world out there. At least it better be.

I'm on the same page. I run a tight ship. No open ports, wireless networks isolated, business and personal networks isolated by subnets on separate routers, all inbound and outbound traffic controlled and very careful about what software gets installed. I also schedule Macrium images 3 times weekly for critical partitions.

But I haven't upgraded hardware in about 5 years. I hadn't thought about the driver issue. Are high end mobos/cpus still providing win 7 x64 drivers? I rarely research until I need a new build.

file3456 · Dec 18, 2018

msalton1 said:
\Are high end mobos/cpus still providing win 7 x64 drivers? I rarely research until I need a new build.

I've noticed that if you want to run a Coffee Lake CPU which is at the 8th and 9th generation iteration of CPUs to date, you need a 300 series motherboard, and those MOBO manufacturer's only provide Win 10 drivers. I doubt the Win 10 driver would work in 7.

It's as if M$ is like Rich Uncle Penny Bags, but owns this Monopoly board.

"You want to run a Kaby Lake in Win 7? No updates for you!"

"You want to run Coffee Lake in Win 7 even though they are both LGA 1151? No MOBO drivers for you!"

I guess it makes sense that hardware does age, but come on! They were/are pushing Win 10 bad, and for free to boot. Why I wonder? There's an old saying: Nothing in life is free. NOTHING! With 10 you've become M$'s little cash cow in terms of analytics and data consumption. After all, there is a built-in keylogger. I remember at one time keyloggers were highly frowned upon and there were several programs to stop or ID them. I even ran a program years ago that used an add-on in Firefox to scramble my keystrokes at the apparent kernel level.

Personal Computer? Not in this the 21st century. You lease it.

townsbg · Dec 18, 2018

This topic has been going on for at least a year and a half here in various threads. Oh the updates stop (new ones) but current updates will still download and windows will still activate. Windows will still run however you will eventually run into software manufacturers that'll stop supporting it. That is already happening with Vista and XP. Personally I'm not sure what I'll do with my own computer or my Mom's.

file3456 · Dec 18, 2018

townsbg said:
Personally I'm not sure what I'll do with my own computer or my Mom's.

Linux Mint or some other variant? LOL

Paul Black · Dec 19, 2018

Hi msalton1,

msalton1 said:
You & Megahertz07 make a good point about having all of the expedient updates on hand. But since I haven't downloaded and saved them to disk, how would I (easily) obtain the necessary 'list' and then download them? I'm assuming there could be a great many, so the process could get tedious.

As to obtaining the updates...any suggestions on obtaining a list and efficient method of downloading them?

This is a topic that will continue for a long time!

As for obtaining the updates, you can download all the Security-Only-Updates and the Cumulative-Monthly-Rollups from here => List of M$ WU's.

You will also need all the .NET Framework updates etc.

I hope this helps!

Megahertz07 · Dec 19, 2018

On the link MS releases SP2 for Windows 7 you will find all the offline updates

ShadouFox · Dec 21, 2018

msalton1 said:
I believe the support end date for Win 7 is what...Jan 2020? So what are people planning to do beyond that? I have 5 machines here, all running win 7 except for one win 8 machine that I've configured to be pretty much like win 7.

Is win 10 still the privacy crippled dumbed down smartphone-like OS it was when I tried it (pre-release)?

I don't know about Win-10, but I suppose it's as bad as you remember. I'm primarily a Linux user, and have been since 2001. There's one specific program I need that doesn't run with WINE, and so I bought a copy of Win-7 to install on an old Dell Optiplex I received for free that originally had XP installed, and there's that "Designed for Windows XP" decal still on it. So long as that program keeps running, I have no intention to change it, and I highly doubt Win-10 will run on it anyway, as it's a 32 bit system. So far, I have no complaints about Win-7. It just works, so it's a lot like Linux in that regard.

msalton1 said:
I'll probably think about going with Linux for some machines, but I need windows for some of my business software. I guess I could run it in a VM, but would want good performance and a no-hassle operation.

I'm rambling. Is win 10 "doable" for us diehard win 7 users? What are others here planning after it's over?

Linux is a good idea. I suppose Win-10 is "doable". Even ME was "doable", and even had its fans, but I'll have to leave that up to you.

lehnerus2000 · Dec 25, 2018

If your software doesn't need direct access to the Internet, you can run W10 safely in a VM on Linux.

Since I stopped MS from sending crap to it, by disabling all network access, my W10 Pro 1703 VM has run flawlessly (on VMware Player in Linux Mint).
Hyper-V and Visual Studio 2015 also work on the VM.

vel123 · Dec 25, 2018

Just a few words on what private data Windows 10 by default allow itself to send to Microsoft:

System Information

unique advertising ID (shared with 3rd party to track the user)
unique UUID (e.g. used by NSA to track and attack devices)
system configuration
programs crashes
all installed programs

Users Data

emails, text messages (e.g. Skype)
video and audio chat (e.g. Skype)
contacts from the address book (address, email, phone, etc.)
precise location (Wifi, GPS)
Bitlocker recovery keys (these keys decrypt encrypted data, so Bitlocker encryption is pointless)

Users Interest and Behavior

full browsing history
app interactions (e.g. a weather app sends locations often requested)
usage time and frequency of programs
typing input and behavior
search requests

Microsoft even admits that the collected data can be tied to the unique user. As all big companies (e.g. Microsoft) have to share data with security authorities (e.g. NSA, GCHQ) on request and furthermore freely share huge amounts of user data, it is safe to say that every piece of data Microsoft has is available to e.g. the NSA as well. Meanwhile the NSA steadily exchanges their information with other agencies around the world. Furthermore most companies sell user data to tracking and advertisement firms.

It is not possible to hinder Windows 10 from leaking all the mentioned data. Finding and using the offered options to minimize the amounts of shared information is difficult and time consuming even for experienced users. On top of that, the majority of user-made changes towards privacy is reverted with every Windows update.

Sources:
Betriebssysteme: Windows

Windows 10’s privacy policy is the new normal | Ars Technica

Even when told not to, Windows 10 just can’t stop talking to Microsoft | Ars Technica

What Data Does Windows 10 Send to Microsoft? Techquickie - YouTube

msalton1 · Dec 25, 2018

Apologies for the delay in returning to this thread. Lots of balls in the air these days.

After the comments here, I do feel an even greater sense of urgency to prepare for the MS drop of win 7 support. Thanks to Paul Black & Megahertz07 for the update links.

Now, the $64,000 question:

What what Win 7 compatible Motherboard & CPU are recommended/available at present?

I generally build with quality hardware. My current "production" machine is Asus Hero Max (1150)/i5 4670k and has given no issues in over 5 yrs in use. This is the quality I'm looking for.

Will graphic card drivers also be an issue?

I can't really afford to rebuild every system here, but do want (need) have components on hand for at least 2 of my systems.

Recommendations? Or should I post this in the hardware forum?

msalton1 · Dec 25, 2018

vel123 said:
Just a few words on what private data Windows 10 by default allow itself to send to Microsoft:...

Good info, and reinforces my determination to resist moving on to Win 10!

file3456 · Dec 25, 2018

msalton1 said:
What what Win 7 compatible Motherboard & CPU are recommended/available at present?

Anything beyond Kaby Lake and it won't work. The motherboard manufacturers only have Win 10 drivers.

If you use Kaby Lake then updates won't work without a hack from Github.

Beyond Windows 7

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