Is anyone still using Windows 7?

Yes sir. TPM has ongoing issues. It is notorious for security issues and Microsoft is daft for casting in their lot with the consortium that clearly wants to force it on the end user in the name of profits. Every time they think they have this thing fixed there's another issue. Now don't get me wrong. I'm all for R&D and beta testing stuff and innovation etc. etc. but making the end user pay for something that has already been tried and tested and proven to be inadequate, full of holes, faulty etc. over 12 years of trial and error. . . To make it mandatory in order to run the latest Microsoft Operating System, IMO, is beyond the pale. It is demonstrative of a blatant disrespect and disregard for the end user and there is absolutely no logical reason for doing this apart from a Consortium having a lot of money invested in these chips. If hardware manufacturers insist on including them on the platform that's all fine and dandy but TPM2 should never be something mandatory at the behest of Microsoft. It should be handled as an option just as Legacy and UEFI are. If only TPM were proven to be so stable and *cough* "trustworthy".

Lest anyone think me some sort of Luddite alarmist I'll share the most recent TPM2 issues here. TPM is the gift that keeps on taking.


Two security flaws in the TPM 2.0 specs put cryptographic keys at risk | TechSpot

You could just block it, if windows try’s to install it just disable or hide the update or the whole windows update process it should let you. That’s why when I was on windows 10 it hasn’t been updated: because that stuff creates risks of breaking your system.

emiller12 said:

You could just block it, if windows try’s to install it just disable or hide the update or the whole windows update process it should let you. That’s why when I was on windows 10 it hasn’t been updated: because that stuff creates risks of breaking your system.

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It isn't merely a simple matter of blocking. Following Windows instructions for installing Win 11 on a TPM 1.2 platform can result in further problems which is why after all the instructions they give they still clearly state in a caveat in bold text that they do NOT recommend this. So that means well over 85% of PCs being used today are NOT compliant with Windows 11 and only a smaller percentage ever will be even in five years. Microsoft has shot themselves in the foot with this hair-brained scheme and it's all because they want you to buy their cheap chips. It isn't about security because it isn't very secure. It isn't about stability because it generates stability issues. It isn't about reliability because it isn't reliable. So what could it possibly be about? A: It's Windows Dressing! Check out what this Swedish tech has to say about Windows 11:

Windows 11 on LGA 2011-3 / X99 – how to install and tests vs Windows 10 | E5-2640 V3, RX 6800XT - YouTube

He calls it "artificial requirements". Very aptly described. He finds no advantage in using the newest version of Windoze and frankly, neither do I. Microsoft needs to do better than this.

Consult this thread at Elevenforum: Let's install Windows 11 on incompatible hardware | Windows 11 Forum (elevenforum.com) for tips how to bypass compatibility check and install Windows 11 on any 64-bit computer in either Legacy BIOS (CSM) mode or UEFI mode. Later posts discuss to stay offline while upgrading to 22H2 to prevent any online check that would make the upgrade fail.

I have an old Pentium 4 3.00 GHz socket Intel 478 computer that I plan to do a fresh Windows 7 32-bit installation, put some old games and give it to my son. As a Computer Technician I have installed Windows 7 many times even recently for my customers. Just make sure all drivers are installed and also some patches such as SHA-2 signatures security update KB4474419 or SHA-2 signatures security update KB4490628 to improve compatibility. As far as I know, Firefox and Chrome still work, latest Office version is 2016. I will let you know when I do it.

Still Going Strong

I foolishly "upgraded" my laptop to W10 Home.
I haven't being able to connect it to the Internet since 2017.
It tries to download some useless W10 update, which it can't install and then it tries it again, ad nauseam.
It is dual boot with LM21.1 so I can always start that if I need the Internet.

I also have a W10 Pro VM (2017).
It also tries to download some useless W10 update, which it can't install and then it tries it again, ad nauseam.

Both of my desktops dual boot W7 and Linux Mint (one has LM18 and the other has LM21.1).

We had a power outage (a few days ago) that caused a "PFN_List Corrupt" BSOD.
I assume something was being written/updated at the time.
I whipped out Macrium Reflect, re-imaged my OS and everything was "hunky dory" again.

W7 has been a solid performer for the last 13(?) years.

I expect it will still be going strong when MS brings out W12.

I have W7U on my work station. Within 48 hours of Win 8.1 EOL all the PCs in my home using that "tablet" OS crashed. Scans revealed no malware, nothing unusual. They just all crashed and were no longer bootable. I was not able to recover all the OS but I did manage to recover the user files for each OS. File history helped to recover some (not all) of the operating systems. I was unable to recover the OS on my work station so I opted to "upgrade" to Win 11 using Microsoft's instructions on installing Win 11 on a TPM1.2 based platform. What a joke.

It took some doing but I managed to deal with most of the yellow triangles in device manager. There is one stubborn "device" that can neither be removed nor can it be updated. I'm stuck with a niggling yellow triangle until Windoze decides to do something with it OR NOT. Now when I want to access Windows Manager I have to click on "show more options". Why I have to dig deeper just to access something so basic is beyond me. It is as though Windows doesn't want people to manage their OS independently. It is the same for many other things in Windows 11. Standard features have to be sought out and hunted for without any discernible advantage. I wouldn't exactly call Windows 11 user friendly.

Meanwhile, Windows7 U keeps on chugging along and thank goodness because I wouldn't have been able to accomplish many things I needed to do otherwise. What concerns me is will some "mysterious" thing happen to my Windows 7 that happened to all the Win 8.1 OS in my household? I guess I'm going to have to get Legacy going in my BIOS and get Linux back. Of course this means I'll have to scrap Win 11 entirely coz you can't run Win 11 in Legacy. . . Or, can you?

All your Windows 8.1 devices dying short after EOL is very suspicious. Probably Microsoft issued an update that does that to force upgrade to 10 or 11.

spapakons said:

Probably Microsoft issued an update that does that to force upgrade to 10 or 11.

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Absolute utter nonsense.

spapakons said:

All your Windows 8.1 devices dying short after EOL is very suspicious. Probably Microsoft issued an update that does that to force upgrade to 10 or 11.

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That was my thinking also. I know it sounds very 'tin foil' but it's not as though they haven't pulled similar stunts in the past. TBH however, it could also be a lazy ISP thing. They may have thought it unnecessary to keep up on their own security since EOL was coming. I've seen ISPs do similar things in the past, even to the point of refusing to help with TCP IP configuration because the OS was EOL. Admittedly, that was a long time ago but stuff like this does happen. All of this is speculation. I just never saw so many systems drop like flies all at once before right after EOL. I was a very busy boy for some time. Can't blame the wife coz she's more careful than I am when it comes to security. Can't blame my daughters because I had the same issue. All operating systems were legitimate. Activation keys came from the Microsoft Store. I even still have two of the physical discs purchased from them directly. Yeah, I know that's old school. It's probably as you say, Microsoft trying to force Win 10 where it isn't wanted. Lots of things wrong with Win 10. Lots of things wrong with Win 11. One would think by now these cats would respect the privacy of the domestic end user and at least offer a NO-NONSENSE product. I guess that's what LINUX is for.

z3r010 said:

Absolute utter nonsense.

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well said

spapakons said:

Probably Microsoft issued an update that does that to force upgrade to 10 or 11.

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that never happens when this particular update is installed on a Win7 OS (glad I thought of that several years ago & planned ahead to keep running W7 on some of my old PCs)

Perhaps spapakons was thinking of how Microsoft began in the leased office space with temp help typing non pertinent documents to impress IBM Contract Negotiators? Just a thought. It's well documented if you care to Fact Check it. Criminals from day one practicing "any" form of deception.

ProtonMail has been pestering me to update their Bridge (to Thunderbird) on my W7Pro 64-bit laptop, but no amount of coaxing would get it to work. After lotsa surfing on it I contacted PM tech support and they are like "oh, you can't update your W7 PC cuz MS doesn't support it. Might've been nice if they told me that instead of my wasting a lot of time when it said to me "Update Please!" Another key program I use is FileCenter from (formerly) Lucion, who have said also "can't support PCs not W10 or above".

Don't know how much longer I can hang-on to this setup before giving-in to Windows 10!?!?!?!?!?!

maxseven said:

ProtonMail has been pestering me to update their Bridge (to Thunderbird) on my W7Pro 64-bit laptop, but no amount of coaxing would get it to work. After lotsa surfing on it I contacted PM tech support and they are like "oh, you can't update your W7 PC cuz MS doesn't support it. Might've been nice if they told me that instead of my wasting a lot of time when it said to me "Update Please!" Another key program I use is FileCenter from (formerly) Lucion, who have said also "can't support PCs not W10 or above".

Don't know how much longer I can hang-on to this setup before giving-in to Windows 10!?!?!?!?!?!

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Myself, I just try to stay flexible. If I really need a feature on another OS I'll use that OS until I no longer need that feature.
Often times that feature will become available later in some third party program. People are still developing aps for Win 7. Isn't that amazing?
I think this says a great deal about Win 7 stability, durability, and credibility. Perhaps Microsoft should take this into consideration the next time they decide to come out with another OS. Unfortunately WIN 11 ain't it.

So far I haven't seen a feature in Windows 10 or 11 I doesn't find in 7, except Windows Store games. Yes, I would like to play Microsoft Mahjong in Windows 7, apart from that I could stay with 7. However, as a Computer Technician I had to install Windows 8 and then 10 and 11 to familiarize with and be able to troubleshoot them for my customers.

spapakons said:

So far I haven't seen a feature in Windows 10 or 11 I doesn't find in 7, except Windows Store games. Yes, I would like to play Microsoft Mahjong in Windows 7, apart from that I could stay with 7. However, as a Computer Technician I had to install Windows 8 and then 10 and 11 to familiarize with and be able to troubleshoot them for my customers.

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Yes, it is good to stay on top of these things. Since my family and friends come to me for help when they run into issues I still have to stay abreast of newer developments in operating systems. One of the things about Windows 11 that I find particularly annoying is having to resort to that extra click to get into Windows Manager.

SCANNERMAN777 said:

... One of the things about Windows 11 that I find particularly annoying is having to resort to that extra click to get into Windows Manager.

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Do you mean Task Manager? If you have Win11 22H2 then a right-click anywhere on the taskbar gets it for you.



And if you don't like having to click on 'Show more options' in File Explorer's right-click minimalist context menu, then hold down the shift key while you right-click.

On all the earlier Windows OS a quick way to get into Windows Manager was to right click the PC icon on the desktop, select "Manage" and click. Now, in Win 11, you right click on the PC icon and then select "show more options", left click on "show more options" and select "Manage" and click. I wonder if Win 12 will bury it even deeper or completely remove it. Only time will tell.

SCANNERMAN777 said:

On all the earlier Windows OS a quick way to get into Windows Manager was to right click the PC icon on the desktop, select "Manage" and click. Now, in Win 11, you right click on the PC icon and then select "show more options", left click on "show more options" and select "Manage" and click.

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Hold down the shift key while you right-click on the PC icon and it goes straight to the old menu you are familiar with.

No need to hold anything. Just disable the "show more" option so the full menu is always visible, like in Windows 10 and earlier. To do that there is a Registry patch (see respective tutorial). Or you can do it easier with Winaero Tweaker.

spapakons said:

No need to hold anything. Just disable the "show more" option so the full menu is always visible, like in Windows 10 and earlier. To do that there is a Registry patch (see respective tutorial). Or you can do it easier with Winaero Tweaker.

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Thank you. I'm a bit lazy so I'll probably use Bree's suggestion before I start tweaking the registry.

And thank you, Bree!