If you are still not using 64-bit operating systems you should read

At work, we run Windows 7 Professional 32-bit because although our computers can technically run 64-bit, there are no audio drivers for the 64-bit version and there is some software we support that does not support 64-bit at the moment. Additionally, these PCs only have 1 GB of RAM so we would see no benefit.

At home, I run Windows 7 Ultimate 64-bit because I have 4 GB of RAM and to fully take advantage of it, I need to run a 64-bit OS. I don't really a huge performance increment going from 32-bit to 64-bit as I don't really run data intensive applications that require a lot of RAM.
 

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As I understand ...unless i have more than 4GB of Mem..
I will not see any improvement by switching to 64Bit OS .... right...?
Some one clear my head please ....Thanks ...:)

You will not see an improvement. What's more even if you have more memory you might not see any improvement. A program needs what it needs and no more. If I run Quicken it needs about 100 Meg, I could have a terabyte of memory and it wouldn't do any better. As long as everything you do fits in the memory you have, getting more memory will not help.

And running in 64 bit mode is not faster then running in 32 bit mode.

Actually the part about 64 bit mode not faster than 32 bit mode running is not always true if the 32 bit application is running on a 64 bit cpu.

If you have a 64 bit CPU then you need at least 2 instruction cycles to load 32 bit code plus the extra instruction decode time and pre-fetch execution.

With 64 bit mode all this overhead is carried out NATIVELY in One cycle by the CPU.

It's not quite as simple as that in practice but you should get the idea.

You will of course need native 64 bit applications to benefit but I'd suggest even on a 2GB RAM system try running the 64 bit version of Photoshop CS4/CS5 compared with the 32 bit version .

Running 32 bit code natively on a 32 bit machine is another story however but here you can run into severe limitations of addressing space when dealing with large data bases / indexes etc etc.

For the average joe at the present time probably a 2GB machine running 32 bit W7 and 32 bit applications is fine -- but remember eventually even for the basic user faster apps and more storage will always be needed -- even if not for several years yet.

Cheers
jimbo
 

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I disagree totally with the view that the average user doesn't need a 64bit os or more than 4GB RAM. The average user should have a 64 bit operating system and as much ram as possible in order to be able to run all the bloat installed by the factory and all the additional user installed bloat without their system bogging down, until they learn how to remove it, in which case 64 bit windows 7 ultimate will run without a hitch with the minimum recommended 2GB even on a system that is officially not supported by the manufacturer for windows 7

Edit... but only if you have a 64 bit capable CPU
 
Last edited:
hey I still use Pentium 4 XDDDDD
 

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As I understand ...unless i have more than 4GB of Mem..
I will not see any improvement by switching to 64Bit OS .... right...?
Some one clear my head please ....Thanks ...:)

You will not see an improvement. What's more even if you have more memory you might not see any improvement. A program needs what it needs and no more. If I run Quicken it needs about 100 Meg, I could have a terabyte of memory and it wouldn't do any better. As long as everything you do fits in the memory you have, getting more memory will not help.

And running in 64 bit mode is not faster then running in 32 bit mode.

Cool ...Thanks for clearing my head .....:D
 

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Hi there
a LOT of specialized hardware like Lab equipment, Field equipment, and other stuff that I've mentioned before etc are often attached to laptops as specialized peripheral devices. Some of these are still woking on Windows 2000 and even Windows 98.

These can be quite expensive and "one off" type devices -- a lot of these were designed a long time ago -- no 64 bit drivers are ever likely to see the light of day.

64 bit OS'es will come into their own when the demand is there which it clearly is NOT at the moment -- not at least amongst the average joe.

Users of this excellent Forum unfortunately represent only a TINY TINY minority of computer users.

Cheers
jimbo
 

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From time to time I meet customers that are using older operating systems that are not 64-bit. Before I go any further let me give you the perspective:
· X86 Platform: This is the original PC platform that we used to use back in 1980’s. It has a maximum support for 4 GB RAM.
· I64 Platform (Itanium): This is the 64-bit platform which appeared first on stage and was modeled after a different architecture. It has support for much higher memory but is only available on expensive hardware. Due to architectural differences it needs to emulate x86 instructions in software and old applications written for x86 run much slower.
· X64 Platform: This is the 64-bit platform that has now become mainstream. It is using a similar architecture with x86 and can run older applications on hardware. It does support much higher memory. The rest of this blog this is the platform that I will refer to when I use 64-bit.

More: If you are still not using 64-bit operating systems you should read this - Murat Cudi Erenturk, Insights of an Architect - Site Home - TechNet Blogs

Good post. And I get the point ;)

Users of this excellent Forum unfortunately represent only a TINY TINY minority of computer users.

Great point and completely agree.

We need to realize the larger mass doesn't need what we have. And for the most part this is an enthusiast forum. Not everyone is a computer geek like us.
 

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However, in a business and such...having to run and support 2 operating systems is a real PITA for both the user and the IT staff. For home users and such, it works out alright.

Agreed, however we selected to bypass Windows Vista and went straight to Windows 7 64-bit.

We have 2 OS's to support Windows XP Pro (x86) and Windows 7 Enterprise (x64).

I agree it is a PITA but it beats what other companies did; by supporting: Windows XP Pro (x86); Windows XP Pro (x64); Windows XP Tablet (x86); Windows Vista (x86); Windows Vista (x64); Windows Vista Enterprise (x86); Windows Vista Enterprise (x64); Windows Vista Ultimate (x86); Windows Vista Ultimate (x64); Windows 7 Ultimate (x86); Windows 7 Ultimate (x64); Windows 7 Pro (x86); Windows 7 Pro (x64); Windows 7 Enterprise (x86); and Windows 7 Enterprise (x64). Not to mention any of the lingering older OS's.

We had to make an extreme hard choice (due to compatibility, old software, old browser requirements, etc.) but a decision had to be made. We had to have the CIO, CFO, and all upper management understand the tremendous support issues we would have without standardizing on Windows XP Pro (x86) and Windows 7 Enterprise (x64). All new purchases are Windows 7 Enterprise (x64) unless there is just no way to run all the software on Windows 7. So far we have had great luck with this and we hope to future proof ourselves. It must be noted that we will skip Windows 8, because of the support issues, staff, etc. We have had a great 10 year run with Windows XP Pro (x86) and would like to push Windows 7 to a 6 to 10 year run if possible.
 

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Sure if you are going to need to do virtual machines or heavy video processing or something else that needs lots of memory then sure go get it, but if you don't why use it? The reason not to use it is long.

1) Manufactures develop and test their 32 bit drivers first not to mention old hardware may never get a 64 bit version.
2) Software is developed and tested first on 32 bit. Don't think so what about that 64 bit Adobe Reader? What about the 64 bit Quicken (doesn't exist), I could name lots more, but the point is just because a 32 bit application can run on 64 bits doesn't mean you need to run it there. There is more chances that it won't work right. There is no speed improvement.
3) 64 bit uses 1.25 to 1.5 more disk space and memory.
4) The 64 bit OS by definition has to run in 32 bit and 64 bit modes. This is more complications that can go wrong and also lead to confusion when trying to solve a problem. A person has a problem accessing a web site with IE. You are trying to help them, but right away you have a problem are they using the 32 bit or the 64 bit IE (sometimes it matters!). You ask which are you using the 64 bit or 32 bit? And their answer is "Huh?". You see not everyone out there is a geek that understand all this they just run the web browser. And even you are dealing with someone that knows the 64 bit browser from the 32 bit browser, what to you tell them when something works on the 32 bit browser, but not the 64 bit? Do the same for any other application, but now the user might have a just A: just a 32 bit application, B: just a 64 bit application, C: both. And along with each of those applications you get different registry entries, and shared data folders, ...

So tell me again why the question shouldn't be why are you using a 64 bit OS when you have no need other then the salesman said it was the "best" or because some geek friend recommended it because they always like the "newest" and "greatest"?

I have over 30+ years experience in software and hardware. I have machines that can be run in 64 bit mode, I have access to both the 32 and 64 bit Windows DVD. I choose to install 32 bit Windows 7 on my machine because I have no need for the 64 bit.

Wow! I remember this argument almost word for word 10 years ago when we were deploying Windows XP (x86) {32bit}. All you have to do is substitute 16bit for 32bit and 32bit for 64bit and the post reads the same.

The point I am making is that 10 years from now 64bit will be the standard and we will all be saying the same about 128bit OSs. What needs to be remembered is that with new architecture comes new challenges but with that change we typically move into a better place. Remember how bad Windows 3.1/95/98 was and how great Windows XP is???
 

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Reasons to use 64bit windows:
32 bit windows doesn't support 64 Bit applications
Maximum usable memory in 32 bit windows is about 3.2 GB (some say more I have never seen it)
Maximum supported memory in 64 bit windows is 192 GB (I have a machine with 96 GB RAM that can batch edit images and convert raw video faster than any 32 bit system will ever be capable of.)
A 32 bit OS can't support the full capabilities of any graphics card with more than 1.5GB memory
A 32 bit OS can't support as many running processes as a 64 bit system without bogging down.
A 64 bit OS can efficiently handle higher levels of encryption.. and thus be more secure
I have yet to see a computer with any version of windows 7 x64 infected with malware.. (No relation to the last point. I have seen more than a few infected 32-bit windows 7 systems, which probably means most of the malicious hackers are still stuck on XP)

Survival of the fittest is not about the strongest or smartest, it's about the most adaptable. 64 bit architecture been around since the 70s. 64 bit operating systems have been around since the mid 80s. It's about time people started using them. Microsoft waited until 2005 to release a 64 bit OS, and because they have dominated the PC operating system market, there has been little or no incentive for hardware manufacturers or software developers build anything but 32 bit products. No competition can be just as lethal in the end as too much competition, and those who don't adapt will be left in the dust.
 
It's quite unfortunate that there is such disparity between the development stages of the hardware environment and the software environment.

Survival of the fittest is not about the strongest or smartest, it's about the most adaptable. 64 bit architecture been around since the 70s. 64 bit operating systems have been around since the mid 80s. It's about time people started using them. Microsoft waited until 2005 to release a 64 bit OS, and because they have dominated the PC operating system market, there has been little or no incentive for hardware manufacturers or software developers build anything but 32 bit products. No competition can be just as lethal in the end as too much competition, and those who don't adapt will be left in the dust.
 

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Wow. I'm really surprised! I looked at the thread I posted to and saw that the other posts were so old I was almost embarrassed I had posted. But it came alive!

I thought I would throw out a few things.
On the subject a 64 bit processor running a 32 bit program and having better performance. Make sure you are actually measure what you think. Make sure that you are actually measuring Windows 7 32 bit against Windows 7 64 bit, not running a 32 bit program in comparison to running a 64 bit program in Windows 7 64 bit. In the case of Windows 7 32 bit the OS will run entirely in 32 bit mode. In the case of Windows 7 64 bit it will be switching between the two modes and will be slower. But even your choice of example programs is what I was talking about. You choose an a photo image program and you probably are editing multiple big images is in it. This is the kind of program use that can make good use of memory.

On the subject of the 128 bit processors. Actually we might see a 128 bit processors on the desktop in 10 years, but I think if we do it won't be for the reasons people always jump on. It won't be for the amount of memory they can access. More it will be for how much memory they can move around in one instruction.

On the subject of graphics cards that have more then 1.5 Gig of memory. Why would you think that is even close to what the average person has on their machine?

BTW I think if you have Vista (which I skipped) you have a strong argument for more memory because that OS was so bad in its memory consumption. But Windows 7 is much better. I much rather have 2 Gig on a Windows 7 machine then 4 Gig+ on a Vista machine.

Addressing this quote:
"I disagree totally with the view that the average user doesn't need a 64bit os or more than 4GB RAM. The average user should have a 64 bit operating system and as much ram as possible in order to be able to run all the bloat installed by the factory and all the additional user installed bloat without their system bogging down"

My answer to this is. Why would you leave the bloat on your machine? People want to know how to speed up their computer? Most of the time the answer comes down to removing what you don't need. And I will tell you that adding memory will not fix the problem. The truth is that from what I have seen most people's machines don't have so much of a memory problem where the machine is constantly swapping, but they have a "CPU drag" problem as in they have all these programs constantly wanting to run taking away from the applications that they really want to run. Sure a machine where they put on so much bloat that it is causing the machine to swap out programs their computer is going to be the slowest thing around. But even if you buy a bigger trashcan if you keep throwing trash in it the solution is to empty it not buy an even bigger trashcan every time you fill it.

Addressing this quote:
"there has been little or no incentive for hardware manufacturers or software developers build anything but 32 bit products. No competition can be just as lethal in the end as too much competition, and those who don't adapt will be left in the dust."

I agree in time, but the time scale is a lot slower then you think. And Microsoft's slow support of 64 bit (came out with XP, but no one hardly used it) shows this. So slow, but still what OS are you on? Microsoft Windows. For Unix/Linux 64 has been the dominate "bits" for many years before Microsoft put out a 64 bit OS, and that is one reason Unix/Linux dominated the server world, but in the desktop world the "slow adopting" has never hurt Microsoft, so maybe the customer has spoken? Could be that the average person doesn't want to pay for a car that can do 300 miles an hour? Sometimes the reason something isn't changed for long periods of time isn't because the company isn't competing, but because the company is giving the customer what they need. Instead of making the care run faster maybe the put in a nicer radio or made it safer. The competing is still there, just not in areas that the customer didn't really need. The truth is that the reason that everything is going to 64 bit now is because the IC manufactures say I can build the 64 bit processor for the same price as I sold the 32 bit processor and it is compatible with the 32 bit processing, why make both? So even if you don't ask for it any new machine has a 64 bit processor in it. (And if you got suckered into buy Vista you needed it too :-) )

The biggest problem I see though with the "Everyone should have 64 bits" is that it ignores the real world and the support problems. Yes as time goes on 64 bits will be the standard and frankly in another OS like Linux wouldn't even be a discussion, but in the world of Windows and old hardware, old programs, the support issues do not justify the somewhat dubious benefits for the average person out there.
 
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Hi there
I posted also that a 32 bit application running in a 64 bit machine would have overhead compared with running a 32 bit application in a 32 bit machine ( this also includes a 32 bit application running in a 32 bit OS on a 64 bit enabled CPU).

What will probably drive faster hardware and 64 / 128 OS'es is when people want to have 3-D / Virtual Reality / Holographic displays - this sort of stuff needs SIGNIFICANTLY faster processors and massive amounts of fast memory which currently would be really HIDEOUSLY expensive to provide but these developments will come.

Bog standard Office apps / basic web surfing and basic Multimedia are decently served by current hardware so there isn't really a whole lot of incentive for users to go out and get new machines --at least not in the current economic environment.

Cheers
jimbo
 

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Funny that you should mention linux
"I disagree totally with the view that the average user doesn't need a 64bit os or more than 4GB RAM. The average user should have a 64 bit operating system and as much ram as possible in order to be able to run all the bloat installed by the factory and all the additional user installed bloat without their system bogging down"

My answer to this is. Why would you leave the bloat on your machine?
you left out "until they learn how to remove it"
The average user doesn't know what to get rid of. The average manufacturer doesn't seem to care how the system will actually perform as long as the advertised features make it look good on paper.

The other part of the problem is the lengths software vendors in protecting their products from being copied. Most of the cpu and memory load in the average windows process is wasted on encrypting and decrypting proprietary file formats. A machine that would bog down at 80 processes in windows 7 can run 200+ processes simultaneously in 64 bit linux using less memory.

On the subject of graphics cards that have more then 1.5 Gig of memory. Why would you think that is even close to what the average person has on their machine?
I don't. But if you want to run a 3D application at native resolution for the average new monitor and get a decent frame rate, you need a lot more than 1.5GB video memory, although it would be interesting to see what kind of system requirements Autodesk Inventor or Crysis would have if the source code were open.

the time scale is a lot slower then you think.
the time scale is limited by artificially created restrictions on development because the market for software is almost entirely limited to windows/mac compatibility. use a little imagination. How much longer do you think either would last if linux had even a 25% market share, manufacturers started building hardware that could take advantage of its flexibility, and software vendors had a decent market for games and applications that could run in linux?
 
Totally agree jimbo!

Your points are valid madtownidiot, especially the one about users not knowing what to do. But on the time frame and the graphics the point I'm making isn't for the people that need those now or even why things move at what speed as far as being adopted.

I'm talking today not tomorrow and about the "average" joe. For instance I certainly can be completely wrong on my prediction on the 128 bit for the next 10 years. If someone comes out with an affordable 3D system or something that the main stream of computer users just has to have.

You know when Windows 3.1 came out I was on Unix as a developer. Every developer that looked at it or programmed in it talked about how bad it was in comparison to EVERY other OS out there. But Microsoft some how convinced programmers to spend huge amounts of time working around the problems and they made applications that the user could use, and the rest is history. The world of the consumer is not about the best tech (Like us geeks would like). It is about giving the customer what they want for the best price.

Will Linux take over and win over Windows in the future? I don't know. Will we really need to access more then 1000s of terabytes of memory in 10 years? I don't really know, but the progression of memory use in the pasts doesn't support that ramp so I doubt it. But I certainly don't know.

My original post is for this question "If you are still not using 64 bit operating systems" (Posted in a Windows forum, not a Linux forum) I'm addressing the "still" which implies NOW, not what will be true even a year from now.
 

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The customer doesn't know what he wants until you show it to him.
The range of available products is limited by an acquisitive but short-sighted near monopoly. If someone were to design a liquid immersed 6 socket system that ran off an external or network HDD or flash memory, had 6, 12, or 24GB RAM, weighed no more than 15 pounds and was about half the size of a shoe box, even with currently available mid-range components (except for a main board) it could outperform any air cooled system of a similar price and would never overheat, but you couldn't install windows to it.
 
The customer doesn't know what he wants until you show it to him.
The range of available products is limited by an acquisitive but short-sighted near monopoly. If someone were to design a liquid immersed 6 socket system that ran off an external or network HDD or flash memory, had 6, 12, or 24GB RAM, weighed no more than 15 pounds and was about half the size of a shoe box, even with currently available mid-range components (except for a main board) it could outperform any air cooled system of a similar price and would never overheat, but you couldn't install windows to it.

Sounds great! Where can I buy that for $500 and I will want it to run everything I'm using my current computer for. I don't care about Windows just make it work. When can you deliver it? ;)
 

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When is 128 bit coming out?
 

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To the mainstream- years from now.
 

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