Running an app as admin - what does it do?

[jasong1968]

Hi there

If you run an app as admin, what is happening exactly? I searched around a bit, but all I could really find was how to run as admin. I did find this:

Some applications won’t run on Windows Vista because they were designed for earlier versions of Windows. Most of the time, the problem is caused by UAC.

Well, I am asking b/c an app that was having some issues (myself and several others) seems to be ok when the .exe is set to 'run as admin'. I can go into details if need be, but basically, this app was designed for Vista/W7 (or so the dev says), and UAC is off.

Basically looking to find out what is going on with the app, and why it might now be ok.

Thanks!

 

[DMHolt57]

Running UAC on the lowest setting is better than turning it off, some functions will not work, such as desktop gadgets sometimes will not display correctly with UAC turned completely off. Setting an app to run as admin in the properties only has to be set one time and usually works without any hitches. Some older apps may need to be set to run in compatibility mode also in the right clik properties....

 

[jasong1968]

Thanks for the reply.

"Running UAC on the lowest setting is better than turning it off, "

Don't necessarily agree with that; I guess it depends on what you are looking to do. I could care less about deskop gadgets and things of that nature - they are completely useless to me.

"Setting an app to run as admin in the properties only has to be set one time and usually works without any hitches"

Yes, I am aware of that - that's what I have done, hence why I am able to run the app as admin.

Can someone kindly enlighten me as to what running an app as admin actually does?

Thank you.

 

[t-4-2]

Thanks for the reply.

"Running UAC on the lowest setting is better than turning it off, "

Don't necessarily agree with that; I guess it depends on what you are looking to do. I could care less about deskop gadgets and things of that nature - they are completely useless to me.

"Setting an app to run as admin in the properties only has to be set one time and usually works without any hitches"

Yes, I am aware of that - that's what I have done, hence why I am able to run the app as admin.

Can someone kindly enlighten me as to what running an app as admin actually does?

Thank you.

It does one thing and one thing only......
It bypasses the necessity of giving permission or entering admin password before it can run.

 

[jasong1968]

Ok, thanks for the info.

Here's the thing. The app is Cubase by Steinberg. It is a 64-bit app in W7 64-bit. I am one of many people who have this problem of the app hanging upon exit. There is a thread on the Cubase forum about this; there are over 200 posts and literally dozens of people who see this regularly - Cubase v5, v6, different versions of W7 64-bit (home, prem, etc), different sound cards, vid cards, amounts/tyopes of RAM, CPUs, PSUs, MBs, etc. It appears to be a global issue regardless of the setup and peripherals. What happens is this: there is a project open, you try to shut doen the app, and the project itslef closes, but the app is still running. It is unresponsive; none of the menus are clickable, the X (close) in the top right are not accessible, you cant grab the border of the app and move it....you can end task, but all that happens is the GUI disappears; there are still threads running as the app is still listed in the TM. Eventually the app completely shuts down, but that can take upwards of 20 min. And you can not shut down/restart the computer while the threads are still running; the OS will just hang with "shutting down" (or whatever that screen says). Myself and many others have noticed that if the app is run as admin, the app always shuts down appropriately, and there is no more hanging issue.

So, I was wondering why running as admin might solve this issue. Any deas?

Thanks

 

[t-4-2]

Ok, thanks for the info.

Here's the thing. The app is Cubase by Steinberg. It is a 64-bit app in W7 64-bit. I am one of many people who have this problem of the app hanging upon exit. There is a thread on the Cubase forum about this; there are over 200 posts and literally dozens of people who see this regularly - Cubase v5, v6, different versions of W7 64-bit (home, prem, etc), different sound cards, vid cards, amounts/tyopes of RAM, CPUs, PSUs, MBs, etc. It appears to be a global issue regardless of the setup and peripherals. What happens is this: there is a project open, you try to shut doen the app, and the project itslef closes, but the app is still running. It is unresponsive; none of the menus are clickable, the X (close) in the top right are not accessible, you cant grab the border of the app and move it....you can end task, but all that happens is the GUI disappears; there are still threads running as the app is still listed in the TM. Eventually the app completely shuts down, but that can take upwards of 20 min. And you can not shut down/restart the computer while the threads are still running; the OS will just hang with "shutting down" (or whatever that screen says). Myself and many others have noticed that if the app is run as admin, the app always shuts down appropriately, and there is no more hanging issue.

So, I was wondering why running as admin might solve this issue. Any deas?

Thanks

Assuming you were replying to me......

No, I don't have any idea why it has to be Run As Admin in order to behave correctly.
If Cubase forum is scratching the cllective head, I doubt answer will be forthcoming soon.
Sorry.

 

[jasong1968]

No need to be sorry - thanks for the response.

Well, there has to be something going on under the hood - no?

 

[niemiro]

Ok, thanks for the info.

Here's the thing. The app is Cubase by Steinberg. It is a 64-bit app in W7 64-bit. I am one of many people who have this problem of the app hanging upon exit. There is a thread on the Cubase forum about this; there are over 200 posts and literally dozens of people who see this regularly - Cubase v5, v6, different versions of W7 64-bit (home, prem, etc), different sound cards, vid cards, amounts/tyopes of RAM, CPUs, PSUs, MBs, etc. It appears to be a global issue regardless of the setup and peripherals. What happens is this: there is a project open, you try to shut doen the app, and the project itslef closes, but the app is still running. It is unresponsive; none of the menus are clickable, the X (close) in the top right are not accessible, you cant grab the border of the app and move it....you can end task, but all that happens is the GUI disappears; there are still threads running as the app is still listed in the TM. Eventually the app completely shuts down, but that can take upwards of 20 min. And you can not shut down/restart the computer while the threads are still running; the OS will just hang with "shutting down" (or whatever that screen says). Myself and many others have noticed that if the app is run as admin, the app always shuts down appropriately, and there is no more hanging issue.

So, I was wondering why running as admin might solve this issue. Any deas?

Thanks

Hello!

I know some people who *might* be willing to help. Can you please link me to this Cubase thread? How willing are the developers to get involved? How familiar are you with Process Monitor and Process Explorer, or not at all? We can provide simple instructions, and then we could disseminate the produced log files at our leisure.

Thanks a lot!

Richard

 

[Barman58]

The main reason for programs not working correctly under UAC is bad and lazy programming techniques used by the application developers.

It is easier for the developers to program to run as admin and to place user files in a protected area, (INI files in the program folder ).

It has been correct programming practice since the 1980s to program windows applications to run as a standard user and to store user files in the user area. The problem is that so many home users running XP ran as full administrator by default , that the application developers assume that this will always be the case.

There is no reason for most applications to run as administrator unless they are system applications that require access to system files.

The normal user in modern systems runs as a standard user, (Windows and Unix/Linux), running as administrator raises the abilities of the user to enable access to system files, (and also raises the danger of accidental or malicious damage).

The only cure for this type of issue is for the developers of these incorrectly coded applications to re-program the application correctly

 

[jasong1968]

Can you please link me to this Cubase thread?

The Cubase forum is open only to users that have entered their product info. Besides, there really isn't any info in that thread that I have not already outlined here.

How willing are the developers to get involved?

They wouldn't be.

Not at all familiar with Process Monitor and Process Explorer. What do they do?

The main reason for programs not working correctly under UAC is bad and lazy programming techniques used by the application developers.

So, this applies even if UAC is turned off?

 

[Barman58]

The problems caused by programming for assumed Admin access will be reduced by running as admin with UAC disabled but not eliminated completely

One way you can sometimes alleviate the issue is to change the ownership and file permissions on the application folders in "Program Files" The owner needs to be changed from "trusted installer" to your actual user name and this user name needs to be given full file access permissions.

To do this you need to enable and log in as the "Hidden Administrator" and use the security tab to make the changes and then disable the "Hidden Administrator". Problems can still arise when the application scatters DLLs and other config files all over the system as these may also need the permissions changed.

This type of modification is advanced and may or may not completely cure issues, depending on if any data is Hard Coded into the application, rather than the correct practice as laid out in the windows SDK

 

[jasong1968]

Umm, this app was not programmed for assumed Admin access; the dev does not assume that people are going to.

What I am saying is that the crashing upon closing issue goes away when the app is 'run as admin'. Trying to figure out why.

Thanks.