Solved Removed faulty RAM, still BSODing after fresh install

[DanBSOD]

Hey guys,

About a month ago, I started getting BSODs that eventually resulted in Windows refusing to boot around a week ago. A MemTest86+ and reinstall on a new HD later, a pair of my RAM sticks (2x 1GB) were removed as one seemed faulty, leaving the other identical pair inside until replacements can be found.

Everything was running smoothly for a few days until yesterday, I've had 3 BSODs since then. After seemingly fixing my RAM issues, I'm unsure what can now be wrong with it.

I've tried to attach as much useful information as I can. I'll run MemTest86+ overnight and post the results as soon as possible.

Thanks greatly for any help.


Is Windows 7 . . .
- x86 (32-bit) or x64? x64
- the original installed OS on the system? Yes.
- an OEM or full retail version? Full retail version.
- What is the age of system (hardware)? Several years.
- What is the age of OS installation (have you re-installed the OS?) A week.

 

[zigzag3143]

Hey guys,

About a month ago, I started getting BSODs that eventually resulted in Windows refusing to boot around a week ago. A MemTest86+ and reinstall on a new HD later, a pair of my RAM sticks (2x 1GB) were removed as one seemed faulty, leaving the other identical pair inside until replacements can be found.

Everything was running smoothly for a few days until yesterday, I've had 3 BSODs since then. After seemingly fixing my RAM issues, I'm unsure what can now be wrong with it.

I've tried to attach as much useful information as I can. I'll run MemTest86+ overnight and post the results as soon as possible.

Thanks greatly for any help.


Is Windows 7 . . .
- x86 (32-bit) or x64? x64
- the original installed OS on the system? Yes.
- an OEM or full retail version? Full retail version.
- What is the age of system (hardware)? Several years.
- What is the age of OS installation (have you re-installed the OS?) A week.

Simple. Your AVG is blamed. I would remove and replace with Microsoft Security Essentials



Download tools and utilities | AVG Worldwide

Virus, Spyware & Malware Protection | Microsoft Security Essentials

 

[DanBSOD]

Simple. Your AVG is blamed. I would remove and replace with Microsoft Security Essentials

Wow, that was fast! While I certainly don't doubt you in any way, may I ask how you came to such a solid conclusion so quickly? I've seen AVG blamed elsewhere through Google, along with a lot of other things, so I'll definitely take your advice. I guess I needn't run MemTest86+ anymore, huh.

Thanks a lot for your timely reply and to anyone else taking their time to read this.

 

[zigzag3143]

Simple. Your AVG is blamed. I would remove and replace with Microsoft Security Essentials

Wow, that was fast! While I certainly don't doubt you in any way, may I ask how you came to such a solid conclusion so quickly? I've seen AVG blamed elsewhere through Google, along with a lot of other things, so I'll definitely take your advice. I guess I needn't run MemTest86+ anymore, huh.

Thanks a lot for your timely reply and to anyone else taking their time to read this.

The reading of the DMP files called debugging takes very little time. Sometimes it is more art than science, sometimes a definative answer is reached. I only report the definitive answers. If not I say "probably caused by" just in case.

I would remove it first, then if you continue to BSOD, then run memtest.

 

[DanBSOD]

Unfortunately, today I've had two more BSOD after having followed your advice yesterday.

The first occured sometime after I installed the software for a new mouse (Razer Lachesis 5600). I hadn't yet restarted like it suggested, so I was hoping it was just a glitch - clearly it was false hope as my second BSOD happened shortly afterwards.

Personally, I have a feeling my problem is at least somewhat graphics related. The two BSOD today both occured while running StarCraft II, and I think some of the last ones occured while playing SCII and Counter-Strike: Condition Zero. Although, I'm obviously no technical wizard, so my theory likely isn't worth a lot. While I'm aware the BSOD tells me to remove recently installed hardware, I have to wonder if it is infact my new mouse as the crashing was happening anyway.

So, should I try revert to my old mouse anyway? I'll run MemTest86+ tonight unless told otherwise.

Attached: dmp files, perfmon report, crash reports, a folder full of info.

 

[DanBSOD]

I ran Memtest86+ for about 3 and a half hours last night, in which time it reported 107 errors.

Now, I have to wonder, these results suggest that at least one of my RAM sticks (2x 1GB) is faulty - but I achieved a similar result with my other identical pair not 2 weeks ago. How can I have multiple RAM sticks die within 2 weeks of eachother? I'm hoping I'm just incredibly unfortunate, but could there be an underlying cause? I really hope my motherboard isn't dead. Hopefully I can test this RAM in another computer soon to verify it's actually at fault.

Again, thanks for any help and for taking the time to read this. Any and all comments are welcomed and appreciated.

 

[maxseven]

I ran Memtest86+ for about 3 and a half hours last night, in which time it reported 107 errors... How can I have multiple RAM sticks die within 2 weeks of eachother? I'm hoping I'm just incredibly unfortunate, but could there be an underlying cause?

Well you could have a dying motherboard, but usually the first component to act-up is the power supply, which could cause erratic behavior of many kinds.

Do you ever tinker with BIOS settings? Overclock perhaps? I'd clear the BIOS and check the PSU voltages (there's usually a screen in BIOS or a utility in Windows that will read your voltages) and make sure they're up to snuff.

 

[DanBSOD]

Well you could have a dying motherboard, but usually the first component to act-up is the power supply, which could cause erratic behavior of many kinds.

Do you ever tinker with BIOS settings? Overclock perhaps? I'd clear the BIOS and check the PSU voltages (there's usually a screen in BIOS or a utility in Windows that will read your voltages) and make sure they're up to snuff.

Failing PSU causing Memtest86+ to report errors in my RAM because its power supply is erratic, rather than my RAM actually being faulty? Fun stuff.

Definitely no overclocking nor messing with the BIOS other than boot orders. I reset to Fail-Safe detaults anyway, although I did it a few weeks ago when my first round of RAM 'died' anyhow.

The pair of RAM I determined to be faulty with Memtest86+ is actually with the manufacturer right now, it's covered by a lifetime warranty so hopefully they'll come back soon and tell me what they think of it.

This is all I really found on voltages, hope it's helpful. If not, I can try do whatever you say to try and help.

H/W Monitor

----- PC Health Status -----
CPU Temperature    : 33*C/91*F
System Temperature : 40*C/104*F
CPU FAN Speed      : 1072RPM
SYS FAN1 Speed     : 0RPM
SYS FAN4 Speed     : 1120RPM
CPU Vcore          : 1.288V
3.3V               : 3.280V
5V                 : 5.003V
12V                : 12.320V
5V SB              : 4.989V

Edit:
If anyone is wondering about my RAM slots being faulty, I can hopefully rule that out by specifying what I tested and for how long in the same pair of slots each time. This was done about 2 weeks ago.

Pair 1            - 12 hours      - No errors
Pair 2            - A few minutes - Errors within 30 seconds
Stick 1 of pair 2 - A few hours   - No errors
Stick 2 of pair 2 - A few hours   - Thousands of errors

Surely if my PSU was spiking and making the RAM fail, it would've been more evenly distributed across my RAM over so much time. I guess I could've been unlucky and had my PSU fail some time after my RAM did, but I don't know.

On a hopefully unrelated and amusing note: a few days after reinstalling windows and removing my 'faulty' RAM from the tests, I picked up the plug leading into my PSU to put it into the socket and got a nice electrical shock for my troubles. I don't suppose that shock going through my finger damaged my PSU...

 

[maxseven]

Surely if my PSU was spiking and making the RAM fail, it would've been more evenly distributed across my RAM over so much time.

Note sure what you mean by this, but a flaky PSU can cause all sorts of "illogical" problems. Still, your voltages seem OK so I dunno that is any kinda problem.

On a hopefully unrelated and amusing note: a few days after reinstalling windows and removing my 'faulty' RAM from the tests, I picked up the plug leading into my PSU to put it into the socket and got a nice electrical shock for my troubles.

You are talking about the AC cord, yes? That shouldn't be a factor.

I don't know what else to say, except I'm unclear about your "pairs" of memory sticks. Are your two pairs the exact same manufacturer/model/specification? Have you kept track of which-was-paired-with-which? If each set is a matched pair, and you got them mis-matched, well that might be an issue too (if a bit of a stretch, but mfrs always want you to use matched sets and if you get a failure they want the whole set back not just the one).

 

[DanBSOD]

I've had a lot of crashing in Firefox over the last few days, including 3 seconds before I was about to submit the first draft of this message.

If my problem is PSU related, could the extra power draw when playing games be when it becomes unstable? If there's a way I can log voltages while I go play some games and try cause a BSOD, I'd be happy to try.

Surely if my PSU was spiking and making the RAM fail, it would've been more evenly distributed across my RAM over so much time.

Note sure what you mean by this, but a flaky PSU can cause all sorts of "illogical" problems. Still, your voltages seem OK so I dunno that is any kinda problem.

Sorry for being unclear. If the PSU is causing problems, wouldn't you expect Memtest to find errors more evenly distributed across my RAM when I tested it? When I ran the tests 2 weeks ago, it only ever found errors when I had 1 stick of RAM inserted in particular.

On a hopefully unrelated and amusing note: a few days after reinstalling windows and removing my 'faulty' RAM from the tests, I picked up the plug leading into my PSU to put it into the socket and got a nice electrical shock for my troubles.

You are talking about the AC cord, yes? That shouldn't be a factor.

My finger is happy it didn't cause any trouble.

I don't know what else to say, except I'm unclear about your "pairs" of memory sticks. Are your two pairs the exact same manufacturer/model/specification? Have you kept track of which-was-paired-with-which? If each set is a matched pair, and you got them mis-matched, well that might be an issue too (if a bit of a stretch, but mfrs always want you to use matched sets and if you get a failure they want the whole set back not just the one).

I have 4 sticks of 1GB Crucial Ballistix DDR2. When I was testing my RAM, I just picked up 2 sticks and called that a pair. While they do have official pairs based on serial keys, I didn't realise/think about that until I was done. It turns out I actually tested sticks from different official pairs together. After I found which stick was giving errors in Memtest, I sent it and its official partner back to the manufacturer so they can see if it's covered under the warranty. Hopefully they'll tell me if it was actually faulty or not soon. Right now, I have the remaining offical pair installed.

 

[maxseven]

If my problem is PSU related, could the extra power draw when playing games be when it becomes unstable? If there's a way I can log voltages while I go play some games and try cause a BSOD, I'd be happy to try.

Sure, game-playing will stress your system in many ways, not just PSU but also heat-wise. Can't hurt to try, though OTTOMH I'm not sue what freeware utility you could try, maybe SpeedFan? I use AIDA64--it will display on your desktop anything you want e.g. CPU Temp, Mobo Temp, GPU Temp, hard drive temps, fan speeds, then any/all voltages. You could try to see if any of these spike before a BSOD. Maybe AIDA64 has a trial version--sorry I'm blanking on freeware ATM.

Hopefully you'll hear from Crucial soon. Any feedback would be good, even if it's "sorry your RAM tested good and we're sending it back". Then you know to focus elsewhere, in which case I'd maybe swap-in a new PSU first. I've never had a motherboard or CPU go bad myself (knocking on wood when I type this!).

 

[DanBSOD]

Back with a SpeedFan log already. This time, I didn't get a BSOD, just a total freeze that required a reset.

The bad news is that the symptoms are starting to resemble the same as before my system totally died and I removed that 'faulty' RAM. Upon restarting, my PC failed to connect to the internet claiming that I needed to install a network driver. I didn't check this time, but before it would also complain that I had no graphics drivers installed. Just like before, another restart fixed this. If the trend is going to continue, I'm eventually going to get this scary error message while booting:

The BIOS in this system is not fully ACPI complient. Please contact your system vendor for an updated BIOS.

***STOP: 0x000000A5(0x00000011, 0x00000003, 0x00000000, 0x00000000)

The log doesn't seem to show anything unusual, unfortunately.

Attached: SpeedFan log

 

[maxseven]

Sorry Dan all I can say is: if you can't run Memtest then you can't count on running anything properly, especially i.e. Windows just ain't gonna work. I'd probably try running Windows Memory Diagnostic as here:

http://www.sevenforums.com/tutorials/715-memory-diagnostics-tool.html

and maybe start-over with the remaining RAM that you have. What I'm thinking is: if you can find a RAM stick, even 1Gb (that maybe won't even run Windows 7? I'm not sure) and Memtest86+ the hell out of it e.g. overnight or longer, with no errors, then at least maybe you can have some confidence in your PSU/Mobo/CPU for when you get the other RAM back.

 

[DanBSOD]

I spent all last night and today running Memtest while I sat here on the ol' laptop. Keeping in mind that not a few days ago, I got errors with both of my sticks in the 3rd and 4th slots

Stick 1 - Slot 4 - 9 hours - 41 pass - 0 errors
Stick 2 - Slot 4 - 5 hours - 22 pass - 0 errors
Stick 1 - Slot 3 - 3 hours - 14 pass - 0 errors
Stick 2 - Slot 3 - 3 hours - 13 pass - 0 errors

Basically, it seems Memtest likes to find errors one day, and find none on others. Neither of my RAM sticks or the slots seem to be giving errors right now. I guess I have to hope that some of the RAM wasn't reinserted correctly after I was done with my first round of scans a few weeks ago. I don't know if the RAM would even work if not correctly inserted, or if that was even the case, but I have little else to have hope in right now. Maybe tomorrow I can make sure both sticks are definitely plugged in well and see if I BSOD some more, which I no doubt will.

Oh, and great news concerning Crucial. Apparently they won't bother testing my RAM, it's too much time/effort/money so they just replace it as standard.

 

[maxseven]

Well, it might've been nice if they told you "yeah your RAM was bad" but no matter now.

One thing that puzzles me is your use of terms "Slot 3 and Slot 4"--you do know about your P35's rules of DIMM slot usage, yes? Referring to page 2-7/8 of your manual, with one DIMM you want to install to the first slot only, labeled DIMM_A1 nearest the CPU. Then adding a 2nd would be to DIMM_B1 because yours is a Dual Channel mobo. Getting this right may be important! And assuming Crucial may be sending you-back a matched pair, make sure you install those only to A1/B1 or A2/B2.

Since I DL'ed your manual (!) look also at p3-24 where is discussed EMI--a long shot but maybe something changed in your environment or power source to affect this?

Finally, I see that mobo has a myriad of BIOS settings to deal with, and for starters you want to make sure you go with all defaults. You said this crashing came out-of-the-blue but maybe since its an older PC your CMOS battery CR2032 is weak and your mobo has glitched owing to power issues? Another long shot but there ya go. Good luck!

 

[DanBSOD]

Well, it might've been nice if they told you "yeah your RAM was bad" but no matter now.

One thing that puzzles me is your use of terms "Slot 3 and Slot 4"--you do know about your P35's rules of DIMM slot usage, yes? Referring to page 2-7/8 of your manual, with one DIMM you want to install to the first slot only, labeled DIMM_A1 nearest the CPU. Then adding a 2nd would be to DIMM_B1 because yours is a Dual Channel mobo. Getting this right may be important! And assuming Crucial may be sending you-back a matched pair, make sure you install those only to A1/B1 or A2/B2.

Since I DL'ed your manual (!) look also at p3-24 where is discussed EMI--a long shot but maybe something changed in your environment or power source to affect this?

Finally, I see that mobo has a myriad of BIOS settings to deal with, and for starters you want to make sure you go with all defaults. You said this crashing came out-of-the-blue but maybe since its an older PC your CMOS battery CR2032 is weak and your mobo has glitched owing to power issues? Another long shot but there ya go. Good luck!

I'm not very hardware orientated at all, so my usage of the terms 3rd and 4th slots was literally just the 3rd and 4th to the right. Also, I bought this computer from an acquaintance of a relative, so I'll have to find and download the manual, as he didn't give me anything but the case and its contents.

Are you saying I should put the RAM pair I currently have in slots 1 & 3? That is, instead of 1 & 2 or 3 & 4. I've been using 3 & 4 purely for ease, as I'd have to detach a fan to get at the first two slots. If so, I'll make the change as soon as I can. Should my replacement pair go in 2 & 4 when I receive them?

Sorry if I misunderstood any of what you said. Again, thanks for helping.

 

[maxseven]

Yes Dan, you've been doing this wrong, and could IMO have definitely skewed your Memtest results. If testing 1 DIMM, it should have been placed only into slot 1 nearest the CPU. If two DIMMs, slots 1 and 3, or slots 2 and 4. When you have fully 4 DIMMs, and any "matched pairs", these should be in 1 and 3 or 2 and 4. I found your manual here--I think you will need perhaps the Europe link:

MSI USA – Download Center

Oh, if I haven't confused you enough, it IS possible to put only 2 DIMMs into slots 1 and 2 (though not solely into slots 3 and 4) but this will result in a less-desirable "single channel" operation of your more-desirable "dual channel" motherboard.

 

[DanBSOD]

Yes Dan, you've been doing this wrong, and could IMO have definitely skewed your Memtest results. If testing 1 DIMM, it should have been placed only into slot 1 nearest the CPU. If two DIMMs, slots 1 and 3, or slots 2 and 4. When you have fully 4 DIMMs, and any "matched pairs", these should be in 1 and 3 or 2 and 4. I found your manual here--I think you will need perhaps the Europe link:

MSI USA – Download Center

Oh, if I haven't confused you enough, it IS possible to put only 2 DIMMs into slots 1 and 2 (though not solely into slots 3 and 4) but this will result in a less-desirable "single channel" operation of your more-desirable "dual channel" motherboard.

Hey, no worries as long as it'll be alright in the end. I'll put the RAM in slots 1 & 3, check it out, and perhaps swap out my graphics card for a GeForce 6600 I have laying around if things don't improve.

I know I've said this before, but I do appreciate the help quite a lot. It'd take me a lot longer to come up with this stuff by myself.

One thing I was wondering about though. As I did a full reinstall after removing the faulty RAM to start with, could my RAM issues lead to corruption in the programs I had to reinstall & update?

 

[maxseven]

I do appreciate the help quite a lot. It'd take me a lot longer to come up with this stuff by myself.

You're welcome, though we haven't fixed it, yet!

As I did a full reinstall after removing the faulty RAM to start with, could my RAM issues lead to corruption in the programs I had to reinstall & update?

You got me there, Dan! But I doubt it. In any case, assuming you put the new RAM back in and it tests OK (at least 7 full passes with Memtest86+, for "sevenforums" I think) and you still have ugly problems e.g. BSODS and many, random program problems, that would dictate another reinstall attempt I suppose.

Though it occurs to me now that if you did a (fairly painless) sfc /scannow on your Windows installation after successful memtesting, and it comes-out clean, seems to me you're good.

 

[DanBSOD]

Just a small update. About four days ago I switched my graphics card for an old GeForce 6600 and my PC ran without crashing all day while even playing games. The day after, I put the RAM in slots 1 & 3 as I'd forgot to do so previously. Since I did all this, my PC has run flawlessly and seems to be in perfect health, other than my mouse cutting out at times, but I'll reinstall the driver at some point to check on that.

I'll run it like this for a few more days, and if all is well, I guess I'll put my GeForce 8800 back in and see if the BSOD/freezing returns. If so, then I suppose it's fairly safe to assume my card is dead.

As for the new RAM, I do have it but I haven't installed it yet, as I'd rather not introduce another new variable to the problem.