Some important questions for the more experienced members...

[writhziden]

I have only been a member of this community for a short time, and I want all of those here who volunteer their time helping others with their Windows 7 problems to know that I have nothing but the utmost respect for you. Unfortunately, in the short time I have been here, I have seen a somewhat disturbing trend. There have been a few of the more experienced users (users with high reps) who sometimes say things that could be considered rude or offensive to users who are seeking or even giving help. It mostly comes down to how things are said, and sometimes when things are said with exclamation points due to frustration, it comes off as basically calling the person it is directed at an idiot. I had one person cause me to feel this way this week when I was trying to help someone and my knowledge was a little lacking in an area. I'm still learning, as are most of the members on here, even those with high reps.

I realize that everyone has their bad days, and I also realize that users can get frustrating due to lack of knowledge or lack of the ability to follow directions. I feel like those helping should try not to get frustrated and try their hardest to be patient with the other people within a thread. In my experience, by letting frustration show, it often causes those getting help to either stop getting help because they become frustrated themselves, or to take time away from the problem for the same reason. This seems detrimental to the purpose of this forum, which is to help people resolve their problems and not drive them away from getting help, or from offering it.

This thread is a bit longer than I intended, but I wanted to get my feelings across as clearly as possible. My questions are these:

1. Has anyone else noticed this behavior and felt as I do?
2. What is the best way to tell a higher rep person in a respectful manner that he/she has said something that could be considered rude?

As to 2., I feel as though I'm overstepping my bounds since I have not been at this nearly as long as the higher rep individuals, so I don't know if it is acceptable for me to point such things out. What are others' thoughts?

 

[ignatzatsonic]

My questions are these:

1. Has anyone else noticed this behavior and felt as I do?
2. What is the best way to tell a higher rep person in a respectful manner that he/she has said something that could be considered rude?

What are others' thoughts?

I've noticed it, but no more than usual.

I have a very good idea of one veteran poster you might be referring to and can only say it is normal behavior for him.

It's ordinary human behavior on Internet forums. I don't know how you could expect anything else given the large number of posters and varied personalities.

As for question 2--candidly----I think your best move is to sit on your hands and leave that to moderators. The chances of your respectful response being ultimately counterproductive is high---even if done by Private Message. You aren't going to tell the "offender" anything he doesn't already know or wants to hear and it may well result in more negative dialogue.

I can think of an abrasive post in the past 36 hours from one vet to another. The vet on the receiving end chose not to respond and I was happy to see it.

I'll grant you that sitting on your hands is not easy. Not rising to bait is probably the toughest aspect when dealing with forums.

It's probably a good idea for most personalities (myself included) to periodically avoid this forum for weeks or months to recover.

 

[Airbot]

It depends.

It's hard to convey the intended emotions/inflection on the internet. While it may seem rude to one, it may just be analytical and factual/to-the-point to the next.

But yes, many times it can be quite rude no matter how it seems. Most all observe this from time to time. If it comes to personally offending members though, you can always report it and it can be looked into further to be analyzed by staff to see if it needs any further action or not.

 

[pincushion]

The only thing I will say is that although there is often a feeling of bad-temperness in some comments one has to walk more carefully here than on virtually all other forums I comment on - which is a bit stifling in my view.

 

[A Guy]

The thing is, certain people have a certain "style". Some may come across as gruff, or even rude, but if you see them posting for a long enough period, you just realize that's how they are. I'm not saying rude behavior is to be accepted because someone is always rude, but that it's more about they are perceived. I also think a less then stellar representation can be accepted if the person constantly provides good help. There are all kinds of people, just as in society at large. Throw in different nationalities, cultures, and ages, and there will be some misunderstandings, misconceptions, and conflicts. A Guy

 

[JaidynM]

Yes, I have noticed such behaviour as some other users may have. The fact is though, it's hard to convey emotion across the internet. Short of using smileys (which many users don't do), there's not much way to get out whether you're insulting a user or complimenting them. Your tone of voice is usually what people listen to in order to get the real meaning behind your words. On the internet however, there's really no way of doing that.

I'd have to say, like ignatzatsonic, I can probably think of a couple of users who show that kind of so called 'rudeness'. Just don't take notice of it, you're doing a great job helping people as far as I can tell. But if it really gets too much to bear, just do what Aaron said.

If it comes to personally offending members though, you can always report it and it can be looked into further to be analyzed by staff to see if it needs any further action or not.

One last thing; different countries, cultures and communities all have different ways of communicating. One person might find it rude but another think it's completely normal behaviour. Just allow some leeway for the fact that everyone's different and that might just be how they are.

Keep up the good work,
Jaidyn

 

[Airbot]

The only thing I will say is that although there is often a feeling of bad-temperness in some comments one has to walk more carefully here than on virtually all other forums I comment on - which is a bit stifling in my view.

While "all other forums" may seem quite lax on members freely throwing insults at other members, most often than not it's just a poor implementation of moderation. We can seem quite strict on blatant insults towards members. It's all in how one looks at it though. May be strict to one, highly efficient moderation to another.

Ideally, members should be allowed to post questions that may even seem "stupid" or trivial to others, without being directly insulted.

 

[JaidynM]

The only thing I will say is that although there is often a feeling of bad-temperness in some comments one has to walk more carefully here than on virtually all other forums I comment on - which is a bit stifling in my view.

While "all other forums" may seem quite lax on members freely throwing insults at other members, most often than not it's just just a poor implementation of moderation. We can seem quite strict on blatant insults towards members. It's all in how one looks at it though. Maybe strict to one, highly efficient moderation to another.

Ideally, members should be allowed to post questions that may even seem "stupid" or trivial to others, without being directly insulted.

+1

'There's no such thing as a stupid question, only the people who don't ask them.'

The only time you should back away from a thread is if the OP is being rude or flaming. Even if it's the most simple and obvious question, try and give some assistance; not everyone is good with computers.

 

[pincushion]

The only thing I will say is that although there is often a feeling of bad-temperness in some comments one has to walk more carefully here than on virtually all other forums I comment on - which is a bit stifling in my view.

While "all other forums" may seem quite lax on members freely throwing insults at other members, most often than not it's just a poor implementation of moderation. We can seem quite strict on blatant insults towards members. It's all in how one looks at it though. May be strict to one, highly efficient moderation to another.

Ideally, members should be allowed to post questions that may even seem "stupid" or trivial to others, without being directly insulted.

The point is that this forum is similar to most others in that people come for advice and hopefully come away with their problem solved and feeling good about their treatment here. Common courtesy and patience goes a long way to achieve this. Other than that the normal rules of civilised behaviour would seem appropriate for all discussion comments. No one should have to tolerate blatant bad-tempered comments from whoever they might be. :huh:

I do sometimes wonder as to why people join forums - if you are in a call centre and are constantly getting angry and frustrated it might be best to look for another occupation.

ps Good moderation/Stifling - choices, choices, choices

 

[seavixen32]

It's human nature that people feel more secure behind a keyboard when dishing out the dirt rather than doing the same face-to-face.

Added to the fact that although regions share the same language, culturally they are different and this can lead to misunderstanding.

I'm a gregarious type of person with what has been described as a bawdy sense of humour. However, this sense of humour has got me into trouble with my American friends several times on my frequent trips to Florida to visit my sister.

Similarly, I have also found that those same American friends are never backward in coming forward. If something upsets them, they let me know in no uncertain manner so that is no misunderstanding.

What can seem rudeness to some is seen as being honest and direct in others, but as has been pointed out, you can't hear the inflection in the voice or see the body language when a point is being made on WSF.

We're all different, we all have different personalities and believe me, this forum is a modicum of decency compared to some I've been on, where you'll get flamed just for saying 'Good morning'.

All I can say is to anyone who feels sleighted or offended in any way, PM the person concerned, and then go to the mods if you get no response.

I would say, though, if you're the type of person who is easily offended, you need to question whether ANY forum is the right place to be. I will say here that I'm not pointing the finger at anyone, just making a considered comment.

 

[Athene]

I have also noticed the kind of behaviour you have described, pincushion. In one case, although I had made sure to include all my system specs and describe my issue in a clear and precise manner, a highly repped member chewed off my head; because I was a total newbie, and because he had so many pips, I didn't dare notify the mods about it (a mistake on my part, by the way) and left the forum for a few weeks as a result; and when I came back, I discovered that he had been banned; so good work there from the mods/admins.
Sometimes I find that things do get a bit raunchy in the Chillout Room, but then it's the Chillout Room
In addition, I think it's important to take a forum break for a few days every now and then, otherwise one can get too immersed in the forum activities and end up brooding oneself into a sort of depression or even burnout.

 

[kado897]

There is also a language problem. For a lot of our members English is not their native language and so can come across in a way that is perhaps strange to native English speakers.

 

[rubyrubyroo]

yeah, I agree, but you can occasionally tell that the lang's sync up fine, and for instance I recently have seen exactly 4 new members w/1 identical Q in the same thread -- treated unlike anyone should be IMO, when they finally got a senior member response after several months. And the argument posed to the naive newbie posters was basically -- how am I supposed to magically know your problem without better info., Uhhh... that's usually where you can request the desired info, FIRST.

Funny, I remember members tripping over one another to welcome me to SF! After more words and him storming out, all I could do was apologies for the treatment, but I doubt they'll be back. Truth be told, they solved their own problem, but haven't seen any of them post since...whadayagonado?

Mike

 

[mjf]

I think the world has become a tougher place over the last 20 years. Maybe it's increased communication that's made it more evident. Yet I've noticed an increase in a "precious veneer" where some people will be offended by almost anything.
Blatant rudeness is obvious anything else is interpretation.

I've also noticed a number of (long) threads on this forum which appear to be all about ridicule. I can't help seeing some hypocrysy in all of this.

 

[rubyrubyroo]

agreed.

only side step i would make is when i someone's first interaction w/ the SF community, is not given a "bit" extra niceness rather than the direct opposite. I realize everyone is entitled to their ways and methods, but if I were in charge, I'd prefer a happy influx of newbies to grow in the forums, to a highly "ranking" member.

That's my 2.735 cents
Mike

 

[pincushion]

It's human nature that people feel more secure behind a keyboard when dishing out the dirt rather than doing the same face-to-face.

Added to the fact that although regions share the same language, culturally they are different and this can lead to misunderstanding.

I'm a gregarious type of person with what has been described as a bawdy sense of humour. However, this sense of humour has got me into trouble with my American friends several times on my frequent trips to Florida to visit my sister.

Similarly, I have also found that those same American friends are never backward in coming forward. If something upsets them, they let me know in no uncertain manner so that is no misunderstanding.

What can seem rudeness to some is seen as being honest and direct in others, but as has been pointed out, you can't hear the inflection in the voice or see the body language when a point is being made on WSF.

We're all different, we all have different personalities and believe me, this forum is a modicum of decency compared to some I've been on, where you'll get flamed just for saying 'Good morning'.

All I can say is to anyone who feels sleighted or offended in any way, PM the person concerned, and then go to the mods if you get no response.

I would say, though, if you're the type of person who is easily offended, you need to question whether ANY forum is the right place to be. I will say here that I'm not pointing the finger at anyone, just making a considered comment.

You would have to go a long way to offend me but sadly that isn't reciprocated - not that it is reflected in my username, not really that prickly.

:roflmao:

 

[rubyrubyroo]

Oh, I am not personally offended, I take anybody's crap and let it pass (aside from the occasional misinformation that it might contain). Maybe your not here to help in the same capacity as I (and many others are) but sure - keeping w/ the same example: if someone asks let's say (totally made up) - my screen wont come on it just says "no connect", then another and another...etc. You would be okay yourself or with another member entering the thread and rather then solve 4 simple problems at once, say "get a computer that doesn't act screwy" and then when asked what you could possibly mean, "well I can't jump across the screen and know everything about your computers problems, you cant even give me a shred of detail" -.....blah blah "fix it yourself" as he/she exits

really?! They all had their computer specs 50-90% filled out, asked similarly simple Q's, and asked the Q good enough to easily diagnose, even so maybe someone doesn't catch it, that fine, you could take 20 sec to ask a Q or 2 rather than getting all pissy. Hey, If I'm way off, and you really don't mind treating users like their not welcome or just making your day go bad, maybe we just differ in opinions. Maybe I misinterpreted your response.

...don't baby anyone, give them a chance to be helped. simple enough summation?

Mike

 

[writhziden]

I know in my case, when I had someone on here basically treat me like an idiot when I was trying to help, I responded in a civil manner and was able to learn from the experience. I do not think that I am easily offended; I think that though tone gets lost in mere words on here, certain phrases are pretty obviously telling users that they are basically too stupid to use a computer. I understand that some are more easily offended than others, but when trying to help others, would it not be a good idea to treat all users with respect and courtesy in case you are dealing with one such individual?

I think it is important to be respectful to others at all times, whether it is in a face to face conversation or on an online forum.

 

[rubyrubyroo]

writhziden

well I had a paragraph, typed in under "quick reply", then hit "Post Reply" Orange button above, so I'm not gonna type it again,

your 100% right about the way you should treat members, just ignore the "Misc. Debis" don't argue (as you didn't) and report them only if it's pretty nasty!

customer service is the basis of my business, and everyone else has "vacancy" signs on the computer shop doors, while I'm always backlogged 5-10 systems. 5+ yrs - word of mouth ONLY - and I charge plenty, it's not because I'm cheap ($35/quarter hour) for most all svcs. I stop what I'm doing If a client needs serious help even if its 2am. And smiling the whole way past the empty shops!

I'm sure I'll be labeled as bragging, but...watch..."Let 'Em" , "I feel no less intelligent" Thats what you gotta do, don't mess with it. Just do your thing, and good.

There. thats my pep speech and so on..

(now if I could just stop hearing your messages in my internal dialog read by cookie monster)

Mike

 

[writhziden]

writhziden

well I had a paragraph, typed in under "quick reply", then hit "Post Reply" Orange button above, so I'm not gonna type it again,

your 100% right about the way you should treat members, just ignore the "Misc. Debis" don't argue (as you didn't) and report them only if it's pretty nasty!

customer service is the basis of my business, and everyone else has "vacancy" signs on the computer shop doors, while I'm always backlogged 5-10 systems. 5+ yrs - word of mouth ONLY - and I charge plenty, it's not because I'm cheap ($35/quarter hour) for most all svcs. I stop what I'm doing If a client needs serious help even if its 2am. And smiling the whole way past the empty shops!

I'm sure I'll be labeled as bragging, but...watch..."Let 'Em" , "I feel no less intelligent" Thats what you gotta do, don't mess with it. Just do your thing, and good.

There. thats my pep speech and so on..

(now if I could just stop hearing your messages in my internal dialog read by cookie monster)

Mike

Thanks for the support, Mike. And I'm rofl with that last part. That was awesome.