Win7 registry vs. XP registry

[drpepper]

A friend is going to purchase a Win7 machine soon and give me his old XP machine. I plan to use this gift as an opportunity to learn the registry on a (sacrificial) test machine. If things go foul, I can bulldoze the XP machine and do a fresh install without compromising the other computers in the house.

Are there significant differences in the Win7 registry and the XP registry which I should be aware of, or are they similar enough to make what I learn on the XP machine useful on a Win7 machine?

Are there any pitfalls I need to be aware of?

drpepper

 

[FliGi7]

There are certainly changes in the registry structure and where things are stored from XP to Vista/7. Some are significant and some are subtle. Much of what you learn from the XP registry you will be able to carry over to Win 7, particularly if you learn the ideas and methodology behind where/when things are stored and not just memorize the particular locations where they are stored.

 

[DeaconFrost]

Unless you are a developer (and even then, rare), there's no real reason to learn or play around with the registry.

That being said, if you still feel like spending time on it, load up XP in a VM on your primary system and play around with it there. Once you have a VM configured, back up the files. This way, anytime you bork the XP install, all you have to do is spend a couple of minutes restoring those files.

 

[FliGi7]

Forensics, malware analysis, and hardware/software troubleshooting are all uses for knowing the registry as well.

 

[DeaconFrost]

I do the last two of yours on a near daily basis without ever entering the registry. It's been years since I've had to manually change/edit anything in the registry.

 

[FliGi7]

No ones talking about changing or editing the registry. The OP is talking about learning and understanding it, which is very valuable in various situations as already desscribed. As someone who does malware analysis and reverse engineering, you're missing a great deal of value if you're not addressing registry at all for malware analysis. I do all 3 and the registry is used extensively for the first two and on occasion for the third.

 

[DeaconFrost]

I'm an IT Admin/Director, so I don't do any reverse engineering, but I still can say I haven't had to enter the registry in years. I'd so this goes double for a typical home user. I generally advise people to stay away from the registry completely.

 

[FliGi7]

I would advise the average home user to stay away from messing with the registry as well. However, depending on what it will be used for, taking the time to understand it and how it works isn't necessarily a bad thing. I'd much rather someone be interested in this than just asking what specific keys they can change to remove their file history, etc.

Windows Forensic Analysis by Harlan Carvey is an excellent resource for learning and understanding the Windows registry. He's one of the pioneers of registry analysis on various Windows platforms for forensics and he provides very in-depth explanations of where things are and how/why Windows uses them.

http://www.amazon.com/Windows-Forensic-Analysis-Including-Toolkit/dp/159749156X

 

[fseal]

One large difference between the two is the default permissions. On XP you can change, insert, delete almost anything almost anywhere. The opposite is true on 7. Though you can change the permissions on a key then change it then put the permissions back as needed...

Structure wise, most of it is the same.

 

[drpepper]

Thanks for all the replies. I look forward to more ... Maybe a little bit about me will explain my desire to learn the registry. Please don't read anything negative into this post. I am merely explaining my mindset and passion for learning.

I am a hot rodder from the 1960s and 1970s who can no longer afford the high price of going fast. The engineering mindset of how does it work, why does it work, can it be modified, what are the limiting factors is what made my hot rods fast, reliable, and as safe as possible for the speeds I was driving still lives inside of me. Computers open a whole new world of the how does it work, etc.

In historical perspective I applaud the conquests of some past achievements in computers. What would have happened if David Wheeler had not designed the first stored computer program (1948)? How about Dennis Ritchie's desire to replace Assembly Language with something portable (the C programming language) to deploy operating systems (1970s)? Why did Bjarne Stroustrup decide to write a better C language (C++, released 1985)?

I am not foolish enough to believe that I will be the next innovator and not pessimistic enough to complete divorce the thought of the possibility from my mind. I can go a long way toward satisfying my incurably curious mind by learning the nuts and bolts of PCs and the Windows Operating Systems.

Maybe I can learn how to safely modify my own machine or those owned by others, and maybe not. Maybe I can develop something neat with marketability, and maybe not. I will most certainly lose nothing by learning on a test machine which will leave the other computers here at home unmolested by my efforts and mistakes which are sure to accompany the learning process.

I truly appreciate the replies and understand them from the perspective of the various authors. My perspective is somewhat different as explained above.

More replies are welcome and anticipated with relish.

drpepper

 

[karlsnooks]

I'm in 100% agreement with DeaconFrost.

Reread the advice and answers he has given.

Now a piece of practical advice from someone who has been in this field for more that 4 decades and at all levels and all sides of the game,
Get yourself a computer that you can play with. Play with that. A VM is only a partial way of approaching your objective. You have a long, long, long journey ahead of you and I wish you well and much enjoyment on the journey.

karl

 

[FliGi7]

If you've been through all levels and sides of the computer field then surely you've encountered the need to learn and understand the registry of the Windows OS, just as the OP is attempting to do. Much credit needs to be given to the OP for being proactive about learning and understanding it rather than taking it for granted as something that needn't be touched for anything short of a few niche reasons given.

 

[karlsnooks]

Because I've been there, done that, then I know what is unnecessary, unneeded and totally frivolous.

Have a nice day FliGi7.

 

[FliGi7]

That's unfortunate that so much time in the industry has led you to believe that. While I can't understand how that's possible, I can say that you really have missed a great trove of information that can be leveraged in the system. I couldn't do what I do in the computer field without having an extensive knowledge of the registry. Ask any competent malware analyst, reverse engineer, forensics expert, ... the list goes on. Obviously you haven't had experience in any of these, but I've never actually met a fellow professional in the field who deemed learning the registry unnecessary, unneeded, and totally frivolous in all regards (especially in light of the specific examples already mentioned where it is directly involved). I guess there's always a first, though.

Regardless of the topic at hand, you really shouldn't write something off, and especially promote that opinion to others to be a fact, just because you haven't found it useful. Seems rather closed-minded and doesn't further the purpose of a forum. But, that's just my opinion, as you have yours about the registry. I just hope the OP isn't discouraged by your impractical bias.

 

[drpepper]

karlsnooks,
Thanks for the well wishes and advice.

FlliGi7,
As the OP, I am not discouraged. Among the many things I hope to learn is how program or OS behavior is influenced by the registry. I am confident that new horizons in troubleshooting will be opened with that knowledge.

 

[wanchoo]

I have found that the knowledge gained in learning the XP Registry can be meaningfully applied when dealing with the Windows 7 Registry.

A friend is going to purchase a Win7 machine soon and give me his old XP machine. I plan to use this gift as an opportunity to learn the registry on a (sacrificial) test machine. If things go foul, I can bulldoze the XP machine and do a fresh install without compromising the other computers in the house.

Are there significant differences in the Win7 registry and the XP registry which I should be aware of, or are they similar enough to make what I learn on the XP machine useful on a Win7 machine?

Are there any pitfalls I need to be aware of?

drpepper

 

[DeaconFrost]

Because I've been there, done that, then I know what is unnecessary, unneeded and totally frivolous.

That's pretty much the line of thinking I'm going on. I'll give you an example with hardware. When's the last time you had to sort out an IRQ conflict? Windows 2000? Maybe early on with Windows XP? It used to be important, but not anymore, thanks to OS improvements.

Now, with respect to the registry, there was a time when it was a good idea to understand it, because you'd be going there occasionally. Not so much anymore, especially not with Windows 7. My further proof is the permissions Windows 7 puts on system resources to keep you from easily messing with such things.

The OP would be much better suited learning other areas of the computer than an old technology that should have been removed from Windows OSes by now. With today's systems, there's little reason to ever consider entering the registry. I get what you are saying, FlliGi7, honestly. Five years ago or so, I would have agreed with you 100% or more.

If the OP really wants to learn something useful, that allows mods and customizations, configurations, etc....check out PowerShell.

 

[windude99]

Because I've been there, done that, then I know what is unnecessary, unneeded and totally frivolous.

That's pretty much the line of thinking I'm going on. I'll give you an example with hardware. When's the last time you had to sort out an IRQ conflict? Windows 2000? Maybe early on with Windows XP? It used to be important, but not anymore, thanks to OS improvements.

Now, with respect to the registry, there was a time when it was a good idea to understand it, because you'd be going there occasionally. Not so much anymore, especially not with Windows 7. My further proof is the permissions Windows 7 puts on system resources to keep you from easily messing with such things.

The OP would be much better suited learning other areas of the computer than an old technology that should have been removed from Windows OSes by now. With today's systems, there's little reason to ever consider entering the registry. I get what you are saying, FlliGi7, honestly. Five years ago or so, I would have agreed with you 100% or more.

If the OP really wants to learn something useful, that allows mods and customizations, configurations, etc....check out PowerShell.

The OP said that this was an experimental machine. As long as he doesn't do any of this on his main computer, then what he is doing is perfectly fine with me. Learning the registry is a good thing to do (something that I need to do more, but haven't). I do recommend that the OP set up a Windows 7 virtual machine or put Windows 7 on the test machine and look through the Windows 7 registry. I do agree with you that Windows 7 needs far less tweaking (and I don't really tweak it anymore since my pcs work fine), but there are plenty of tutorials on this website that require registry tweaking and if you know the registry well, then those will be easy for you.

 

[DeaconFrost]

I was thinking that as well...that the OP should stick to Windows 7. Between the rearm trick and the fact he can copy back a file to "restore" a VM, it would be a great environment to expect broken systems. WHenever I play around with Linux, I do it in a VM, so I can quickly undo whatever I did to mess up the system.

 

[kado897]

I was thinking that as well...that the OP should stick to Windows 7. Between the rearm trick and the fact he can copy back a file to "restore" a VM, it would be a great environment to expect broken systems. WHenever I play around with Linux, I do it in a VM, so I can quickly undo whatever I did to mess up the system.

If you use VirtualBox it is even easier than copying a file back. Use snapshots and it takes seconds to "restore" to a known state.